No doubt POS is centralized - page 2.

beerlover

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Quote from: AnonBitCoiner on September 20, 2022, 01:33:21 PM

ETH is now centralized. 46% of ETH belongs to Coinbase and Blackrock. They can dumpt it whenver they want . Also its handeled by Amazon servers. They can shut it down wheneve they want. This reminds me of the Canadian Cannabis stocks when a new law would pass or license granted. Meant absolutely nothing. Fodder for the sheep.

They can't "dump" it, the money is there but it doesn't belong to them. If they sell all their ETH and then people ask their ETH back, then what? Or if they sell and people sell there as well and there is a financial difference? How are they going to pay for it, out of pockets? What do they gain from it as well? Shorting ETH to make a profit?

I think we need to think this through, and it looks like there is no reason for them to do anything illegal, because if they use others ETH to sell and dump the price, they are located in the USA and SEC would destroy them, not only they will be given a penalty worth tens of millions of dollars, there will be jailed people as well. Doesn't make sense to me at all.

Xal0lex

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Quote from: Zaguru12 on September 16, 2022, 11:39:57 AM

It seems the major concern about Proof of stake that experts here warned about has begin to see the light.
According to cointelegraph, 40% of ethereum nodes are controlled by two addresses which are Lido and Coinbase.
This has just proven more that POS is not decentralized and favours investors with higher token supply
source

There is no decentralization in PoS, and never has been. This is a big myth, which is imposed on us by developers of such coins and those who actively promote them in the network. It has been noticed more than once that when some PoS coin votes, 90% of addresses belong to one or several addresses. What kind of decentralization with such distribution of coins and votes can we talk about? ETH became just as centralized after the merger. More than 50% of the network validators are owned by a few large companies.

AnonBitCoiner

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ETH is now centralized. 46% of ETH belongs to Coinbase and Blackrock. They can dumpt it whenver they want . Also its handeled by Amazon servers. They can shut it down wheneve they want. This reminds me of the Canadian Cannabis stocks when a new law would pass or license granted. Meant absolutely nothing. Fodder for the sheep.

TastyChillySauce00

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Quote from: ?? on ??

some people this is good news because they think that the merge of ethereum into POS makes gas costs drop drastically but on the other hand it is unfortunate that the characteristics of ethereum as a decentralized project are lost. maybe in a long time we will not recognize ethereum as a perfect decentralization.

that's obviously true if those people didn't even understand nor read all of proposal. There are so many dumb investors in the crypto where they believing with what others said. There would be no upgrade for scalability and that's very well explained in the proposal.
I think that so many cryto investors need to see themselves. they are too lazy to read simple proposal. This is urgent for the crypto investors. that shows if they are really dumb

DanWalker

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Quote from: ?? on ??

some people this is good news because they think that the merge of ethereum into POS makes gas costs drop drastically but on the other hand it is unfortunate that the characteristics of ethereum as a decentralized project are lost. maybe in a long time we will not recognize ethereum as a perfect decentralization.

You have to understand that nothing is 100% perfect. For those who do not care about decentralization, POS will be good for them because POS will help reduce gas fees to a lower level, transactions become faster. For those who value decentralization, they will certainly not like this.
How will POS affect ETH, we can't say at this point, we have to wait a bit longer how ETH will perform.
Switching to POS is bringing some more trouble for ETH, the SEC is treating it as a security. In addition to the OP's information: 46.15% of Ethereum's PoS nodes are controlled only by Lido and coinbase, the SEC also recently requested control of ETH as over 42.74% of the 7,807 Ethereum nodes are located in the US.
https://cointelegraph.com/news/sec-lawsuit-claims-jurisdiction-as-eth-nodes-are-clustered-in-the-us

Invester

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Literally POS is not centralized but prone for exploitation. When ETH converted to POS, the giant and most powerful companies in the world can accumulate up to the point that they can hold influence in the network. On the other hand, the same companies and powerful corporations can also invest mining rigs if in case ETH remained at POW. Anyhow, POS is the easier to centralize than POW. Either ETHW or ETC or maybe both can gain more supporters in the coming months and years if they can manage to stay alive.

Moshi Moshi

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Quote from: ?? on ??

but this is just the beginning, what about the situation in the middle of the time when the merge is finished, it will make us see more clearly how ethereum is when it becomes POS. Indeed, POS ethereum has been controlled by these two big wallets, but the benefits that come from the community such as low fees must also be considered.

I don't think there's a problem with that, because there are indeed most holders on exchanges like Binance, or Coinbase,
so that means it's not a big problem, there are a lot of users on the exchange so maybe it's the Holder on that exchange

samcrypto

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Quote from: eXtremal on September 20, 2022, 01:35:14 AM

ethereum just merged a few days I think it's too soon to conclude this is centralized. No one knows in the future, maybe the POS done by ethereum will be different from the others. I believe it. So far, crypto always gives surprises, ethereum which is a big project of course will not be separated from its surprises in the future.

You can see this with other project, POS is slowly becoming a centralized network but I think it’s still fine to many since many will still adopt especially now that ETH is already on POS network. Yes, the update happened a week ago and there’s still a lot of improvements needed before we see the pump, for now let’s see if ETH will become more effective under POS and due to the market situation, let’s not expect that much that the price will pump, ETH still depend on the Bitcoin trend.

Mpamaegbu

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Quote from: philipma1957 on September 16, 2022, 06:50:53 PM

I would feel very uncomfortable knowing my stake is frozen and millions of pre mined coins are easy to convert to btc or etc or cash.

I would too, especially after I suffered it firsthand when all my staked tokens on the kclp site disappeared as the staking site inappropriately shutdown in a fraudulent manner. It saddens my heart each time I think about it and I'm cocksure those who are looking at ETH may likely have certain level of skepticism based on the frozen thing.

JangoUnchained

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Quote from: eXtremal on September 20, 2022, 01:35:14 AM

ethereum just merged a few days I think it's too soon to conclude this is centralized. No one knows in the future, maybe the POS done by ethereum will be different from the others. I believe it. So far, crypto always gives surprises, ethereum which is a big project of course will not be separated from its surprises in the future.

It's is centralized, ethereum is running on infura and infura is centralized, it seems vitalik has this in mind right from the beginning, this is why I said vitalik is untruthful, he pretend to always be in support of decentralisation and on the long run he has centralised plan in mind.

eXtremal

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ethereum just merged a few days I think it's too soon to conclude this is centralized. No one knows in the future, maybe the POS done by ethereum will be different from the others. I believe it. So far, crypto always gives surprises, ethereum which is a big project of course will not be separated from its surprises in the future.

fullhdpixel

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Quote from: Zaguru12 on September 16, 2022, 11:39:57 AM

It seems the major concern about Proof of stake that experts here warned about has begin to see the light.
According to cointelegraph, 40% of ethereum nodes are controlled by two addresses which are Lido and Coinbase.
This has just proven more that POS is not decentralized and favours investors with higher token supply
source

How do you assume that these same things are not happening with POW as well? I mean even in POW environment, people with higher potential hold major portion of the hash power. In POW, it will be hash power and in POS, it will be in terms of tokens. But, in my understanding, instead of spending thousands of millions of dollars on Asic machines, you should be encouraged to spend the same money on tokens which will ensure your investments will not be enjoyed by third party but people who are in within your ecosystem or simply it will benefit all the holders.

This is the simplest reason why I love POS. Still, I am not aware of level of security and other network based aspects with POS. POW is a proven secured way for protecting against all types of vulnerabilities but I believe POS also will get enhanced to serve the similar features.

OgNasty

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Centralization is a side effect of PoS by nature. There’s a reason people hate it so much and there’s an entire PoW industry. Some people don’t care though. They just want to play with a cool toy and smart contracts seem to fit the bill. This sort of change shows that the network is still very far from a finished product.

lvsca

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yes, that's right, it looks like ethereum is getting here the "decentralization" feature is very thin. but there are advantages if ethereum has a POS system. such as the low cost of ethereum gas, this is very beneficial for their community with small transactions. Indeed, decentralization is very visible when mining through POW. but POW has many drawbacks, one of which is not environmentally friendly.

GreatArkansas

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Quote from: Jeger.Kiting on September 19, 2022, 04:44:10 AM

You have to understand the fact that prices depend on supply and demand. It should be added that the coin base and many more large pools can be controlled with their system.
(...)

OP is worrying about the decentralization here. Where Proof-of-stake protocol's main problem is decentralization. I read somewhere before saying, "It's much better to solve the scalability the decentralization".
This centralized issue is became common issue for POS protocol, not only for Ethereum, there are already lot of protocol already that is in POS and they are working fine, this is just a matter of time.

danherbias07

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Easy money for a centralized exchange too.
They are the bag holders and I want to see how they will spread the profits they will make.
Ethereum is popular and many investors will try to take advantage of the offer of staking. Average retail investors will have no room for profits here, or if it does exist, I doubt it's satisfactory.
This will become the battle of the rich or the war of exchange. Cheesy

So yes, it's centralized.

Gayong88

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Sometimes this is just a hypothesis, however, which is justified given the facts. It is not clear how else the fork was initiated other than the pre-existing conditions in the network. I think this could change drastically in the future when Proof-of-Stake (PoS) enters the picture and further decentralizes blockchain control. However, right now and with these numbers, it seems that investors with more tokens have the ability to vote based on their monetary value, while token holders and smaller miners will lose their rights.

Jeger.Kiting

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You have to understand the fact that prices depend on supply and demand. It should be added that the coin base and many more large pools can be controlled with their system. Although if you look at it in its entirety, it could still be a good update regardless of whether it's centralized or not, as the purpose of the merge is pretty self-explanatory and we'll probably see the effect in the coming months.

DapanasFruit

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The hype generated by the Merge has already leaped out of the window and we are facing another threat from the smiling bears. Personally am a little bit disappointed but as what experts are pointing the Merge and its impact have already been factored in with the price of Eth many days ago. Let's see how this fear that the shift of PoS is actually making Ethereum more centralized can be affecting its direction and its future. The pressure for Ethereum to go less energy intensive has been the guiding force for this shift for sure...and now they can be pressuring Bitcoin as well.

budi691

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this can happen to any network as long as they have the money to invest then maybe they can control the price movement. When large volumes are in the hands of a few big players in the market, it will be more centralized. This can result in progressive markets based on manipulation and real movement being disrupted, and ultimately the more decentralized and controlled the more profit they get.

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