Topic: NobleCoin[NOBL] - 8% PoS | 1Yr+ | MARKETPLACE | PAY | GIFT | CHARITIES/MERCHANTS - page 244. (Read 1053172 times)

Still a huge supporter of Noble coin, still holding onto mine and maybe the POS will help the price reach something that Noble deserves but that really isn't what is important. Actually using the coin on places like the marketplace is a big part of what gives a currency of any kind actual meaning. I've used the Noble Marketplace a few times for amazon gift cards and I think that it has contributed greatly to keeping Noble alive during the storm of shitcoins and scams. I've been expanding my offerings a little bit and working on some more software which is about to start beta testing, both of which I would really like to offer on the Noble Marketplace. Has anyone heard talk of when the marketplace might become open to other vendors?

 Keeps your heads up we are going to come out on top of this.

So go for 50% annual rate minimum. This looks insane compared to IRL standards (a mistake most of us did, me included), but this cannot be compared because there is one big difference: volatility. As tokyoghetto (of reference in high-PoS) stated it, a coin can lose 50% of its value in one day, whilst you won't lose you fiat (a couple of percent of inflation is the worst you can expect).
So 50% is the minimum.
When it comes to how to calculate the percentage, there are two schools:
- Peercoin-based: constant annual. Peercoin, Blackcoin... have 1%, Philosopher's Stone (which experienced the same issue as Noblecoin and just moved to full PoS recently) is 50% annual.
- Novacoin-based (Novacoin itself being based on Peercoin): dynamic rate (dubbed "NVCS"). The actual interest rate depends on the amount of people stacking. So, the more people stake, the less interesting is the interest. For instance, Novacoin was at 100% annual and it is now at 40% because so much people are stacking.

Dynamic interest is what I suggest, so it would prevent too much hoarding. Regarding the risk of inflation, well, only CENT ran into inflation and this was because of an error in their code (1000% per month).
=> my suggestion is 50%+ NVCS. Since PHS is already 50%, you should aim for more. Or else, you can make the min age lower, to encourage use of the money. 0,25% per day is easy to read, ends up with a higher annual percentage and doesn't encourage people to hoard "till the next staking period" (PHS is 5/15 days). Blackcoin did something similar but even faster: 8 hours/no max age (but it was 1% so essentially useless).
If you hesitate on the min/max age, 5/15 days is common. HBN uses it and works very well.

Also, you could go for PoW/PoS hybrid, but I am not sure it is a good idea. What is not a good idea (as BC experienced it) is to have both full PoS and low inflation. BC was essentially dying before they created the multipool (which basically emulate PoW).

Ah, here I am on my territory MINT in a way suffered from its heyday. People got spoiled with the 60 satoshi price. Plus, the MINT community is pretty passive (it keeps whining about dev do this, dev do that, but what do they do themselves? Tokyopotato gets justly infuriated because of that). This, plus the premine and the complete lack of transparency (including Soviet-style demodding of people who don't please them) attitude of the devs. And finally the whole "too much coins" aspect. MINT could flower once BTC price will increase tenfold or even hundredfold, when people will start reasoning in satoshi and ot in millibitcoins.

Same issue as for MINT. The only thing I can say (for both MINT and NOBL) is that a lot of people like MINT (and NOBL). But not the day-trader crowd.

thanks Rofo...

Not just yet, I would like to get Noble protected and sorted for the community, finish Steps, Marketplace & our .PDF before those details.


There is a lot of IRC talk. Please keep in mind we're also going by public & private sentiment. I stuck by our original plan as well I could, but it's come to a matter of change or die simply because PoW at our hash/price makes it too easy to be abused by 'malicious actors'.


My personal preference is an interest rate that when compounded yearly provides an attractive incentive to hold but does not over-inflate like our PoW rate similar to a savings account. However we need to and continue to factor in incentives to stake (provide security) and hold value. That's a fine and generally subjective balance (as all choices are). PoS generally will not be limited but instead maintain low inflation to hold value - the extra coins are necessary to reward staking because it is an unknown whether transaction fees alone would be enough to support any network.  Whatever the final choice, the focus will be on low inflation, longterm rewards, but with an incentive to hold/'save'.


I don't want to support one officially after the parasitic damage they have done to many coins including NOBL. They are a nasty beast that reflect the nature of this scene. Keep in mind while classic BTC multipools have mined to dump & profit, the multipools being supported today are in the hands of 'unknowns'. We aren't the only PoW coin suffering attempted difficulty manipulation & 51% attacks. However, if someone wants to develop one for NOBL in particular I will bounty so and they can promote it here.


PoS involve no mining so it is free from multipools & ASICs. However we will be building a different PoW coin in the future to partner with NOBL that supports it in different ways and has it's own unique 'approach'/innovations. My only advice I can give is to continue mining other profitable PoW coins & buy NOBL if we are your preference.


Definitely KB, our communication has been very poor while we've focused on attacks & feedback/pressure to fundamentally change NOBL and for this I apologise. Once this is sorted we can continue building with a stronger base.


I agree with you. However I feel MINT (as well as NOBL) suffer because the older a coin gets, the less community members remain. Only genuine supporters of a coin are around at this point, the rest of the crypto. community have moved on to new coins to continue their profit-taking. This is the trial period. We will be promoting circulation with merchant acceptance and continuing our Marketplace deals, promotions & future services. Unfortunately, our PoW security is too low in this environment. That has to come first, then we can tackle the rest head on.



Manipulation or accumulation, or people unhappy with us being Scrypt, or unhappy with us being PoS. People generally unhappy that we lack immediate gains or fear for the longetivity of the coin. There are a million reasons and I combat the question myself daily after all the work we've put in, believe me. I think most people in this scene chase quick profits and then leave coins to die, regardless of its specs or what it plans to offer. You see this with every 'big thing' we've been asked to compete against this year. While our cap never went as high as some, the % lost in value comparatively is relatively similar over time with other coins. It's an unfortunate reality we've had to deal with daily, but we will deal with it until we hit a sweet spot.


Once a final decision is made on specs, development & timeframe I would like to give a 2-4 week notice. This gives time to vet, warn and organise any transition and allow a final mining period. It will also mean NOBL will be a PoS coin with 6+ months organic mining.


We are in talks to allow same wallet & do a hardfork. This is considered slightly riskier with more potential for small bugs that need ironed out, but this is why we want to work with some of the best & pay well doing so. We have the option to do a clean changeover hosted by an exchange, but we are exploring a fork first. This means it's a matter of updating your wallet and waiting for the PoS switch to come. Total # of coins addressed earlier.


I would like the premine organically spread over the next 2 months as well as spent on this transition and marketplace deals. We will be constantly criticised for distribution because of it, but if we can make it seem as organically, slowly & transparently spent over a period of 8 months and all original wallets emptied in a way that doesn't look 'suss', then longer-term it should look like it was cleanly done.

Hello,

just going to add another idea for brainstorming. Now that PoS is being planned, it might be a good idea to discuss possible alternatives to how the remaining coins will be distributed. As far as I can guess, they either won't (ie. cap at the available coins at the moment of the hardfork) or there will be a hybrid PoS/PoW for some time.

I would also suggest for them to be all "premined" for one specific usage: Noble Steps. The coins would then be gradually distributed among the active Noble Steps projects throughout a time period (one year, maybe more). How to do this distribution might be something to give more thought, but I initially thought of either giving a percentage of funds raised for each project or having a group of people choosing Project of the Month or something.

Anyway, just a wild idea to do things a little differently and possibly give more momentum to Steps. What do you guys think?

Thanks,

Janito

Do we still expect a < 2 week period before switching over to POS?

Also, how will current wallets transfer? Will we just keep the same amount in our wallets? Is the 15b to 5b total coin limit being imposed in this fork as well?

Is noble blockchain under attack?

Edit: nvm... I am on irc figuring it out!

Thanks for that link!

I completely agree with this little snippet

I'm glad you looked it up. Very interesting power struggles and dynamics.

Yeah, I had been lurking since those days, although I didn't get overly involved in the forums until just prior to the first run-ups stemming back to November 2012.

I don't understand why the price is that fucking low?

Sure does! !

The circle goes around and around!

As a note, there is an interesting discussion (well, more like a troll battle) that is currently going on in the Alt-Currency parent board regarding LTC and coblee (the creator or LTC) spoke to it. He actually alludes to the fact that when LTC was chosen, there were battles with parameters and algorithms (because at the time, there was a nifty little battle with deriving an FPGA and ASIC-resistant chain); sounds familiar?

Link to coblee's post: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7304748

Thanks for reply and pointers, will get my homework hat on

Enlightenment. . Tenebrix - first to implement sCrypt as protection against GPUs! Premined.

Have you been in the crypto scene since then?

I'm really excited about the changes coming to NobleCoin.  I bought into this coin exactly because of the integrity of this community. The way it has been attacked by the worst elements of the alt coin scene is proof we are doing it right. They don't want to see an honest coin survive.

Because of the coming changes we are going to be a coin and and a community that lasts. I appreciate the work that Rofo and the community have done. We can't sit still while being attacked and I am so confident in this team, this coin, and these changes that I bought more NOBL today. I would recommend anyone do the same.

Let's make this an exercise instead?

You should check out the BRIX (i.e. Tenebrix/Fairbrix) wars from all the way back in 2011; it'll not only give you the answer to that, but also give you a lot of perspective. You might need to do a bit of searching, but it's there and it's worth doing the research for it.

What was the first???

This is somewhat true, but then again, MINT was just a clone with a shortened PoW phase. Looking at the big picture, PPC is doing fine. It doesn't have much liquidity issues and maintains a very high market cap and strong volume; but that's because PPC has various implementations to enhance circulation. It would seem that NOBL is set up to allow for circulation. Unlike so many other coins that are just made with "features," NOBL actually has infrastructure. Hopefully though, the PoS mechanism is done within reason (no BS high stake rate, or low stake initiation periods).

On a side note, it's always so surprising that people don't know where the origins of various long-time algorithms come from. It's kinda like how everyone thinks LTC was the first sCrypt coin.

is PoS the technology used by mintcoin, too? I´m not sure what to think about.

when mint went PoS, I think, price went down to now maximum 10 sat. A coin shouldn`t be hold back in a wallet. It has to circulate to get a real value.

Damn, too bad to hear that we are going PoS but I am glad that something is done against these attacks.

POS is really just the first step. it wont deter asics, but will provide more incentive and reward for miners to hold the coins they mine. it can still be abused by asic mine-dumping. but noble has many good services going for it that other coins do not have and still hope to achieve. the addition of pos will act as noble taking a step to the advantage of other POS coins. but the structure needs to be well thought out. too low stake interest and people will be too impatient to hold. too high and stake interest can flood the market from all the staking that will take place on exchanges where users store their coins. as ive mentioned before.. the exchange collects the stake for all coins left on their server.. and so daily, they get free coins they can use to undersell all traders.


ive been thinking about a structure like this..

standard pos can be something small like 1% per annum.. which will be generated daily in staking wallets. but as a larger incentive to hold. the coin can perhaps offer a growing interest rate the longer the coins stay in the wallet. to a maximum of say 15% per annum over a 3 month period. then the coins have to be moved and sent back to the wallet to continue staking. failure to do so will result in the loss of continued staking until the coins are moved again.

or just a standard 1% with a standard 10/15% per annum bonus every 3/6 months.

this will allow users to feel more confident holding even if they buy at a price and it falls a bit below. it should also be sufficient to deter users from dumping their entire stock to take profits when they could sell just from their stake interest over time. asics may or may not have the advantage in this area currently depending on if they have been holding or dumping their stock. those that have been holding will be rewarded the greatest.

noblecoin would be the first to provide a staking reward system like this.

best i can think of for now... but im always thinking LOL