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Topic: NobleCoin[NOBL] - 8% PoS | 1Yr+ | MARKETPLACE | PAY | GIFT | CHARITIES/MERCHANTS - page 274. (Read 1053172 times)

legendary
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
May/June: Now we're hitting anonymity as the next thing. The problem with this is regulatory as well as the fact this feature is untested in the medium-long term, for the most part closed source if it is groundbreaking, or it is centralized and requires a somewhat trusted middleman if it's been rushed out this week to jump on the latest hype train. These criticisms are more and more coming to light. I think there is a lot of value in anonymity, but a feature like this needs much more than a month or two to be tried and tested as well as vetted for weaknesses. This cannot happen while it is in beta, is closed source, or relies on a central actor acting as an intermediary for anonymity. People simply won't trust it in the long term.

This is just my humble opinion. I do see value in PoS alongside PoW to some degrees, and I think anonymity so far is the best real winner of these specs., but it's a niche now owned by DRK that we shouldn't try to compete with. I believe our niche and what NOBL best represents is staying true to cryptocurrency, merchants, long-term perspectives, acting noble (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noblesse_oblige), charity/philanthropy, Steps and from a purely economic advantage perspective the Marketplace and where we want to take it. These have been applied to us and I believe they've stuck so they need to become our strongest point.

We have anonymity since Bitcoin started. Anonymity in the context of being nameless. Basically we see addresses in the blockchain but we have no idea who the real person is. However law enforcement, using warrants, can find out who the real person is on the basis that there are criminals activities going on. Anonymity already exist, that one thing very clear.

DRK isn't creating anonymity as that has been done by Bitcoin dev SN. DRK is creating a means to circumvent the law enforcement. However it will not last long as there is no way the law enforcement in any advance countries is going to sit by and do nothing. I have no doubt the FBI, Scotland Yard, etc, computer experts are going to find a way of breaking DRK so-called anonymity.

POS doesn't work as intended as it 'fiat-cryptocurrency', money created out of thin air and backed by nothing. POW is backed by cost of electricity. POS was done in an attempt to get miners to hold their coins but no one cared as they want to dump their coins for BTC.

Noblecoin just need to create demand by creating services and links to outside companies. The other coins are simply scamcoins. Ever since many got burnt in the IPO scam, all of the sudden, loads of coins are popping out. More scammers and i bet many are the original victims who are trying to get back their BTC back by scamming others.

One must simply ignore the P&D hype. I no longer bother reading any new coins.
member
Activity: 82
Merit: 10
I live in Australia and have a registered Perth Mint account that's about six years old. You will be easily able to buy Perth Mint bullion shipped cheaply from Australia. Wink There have just been too many dotting the i's and crossing the t's in the meantime, since I can't afford to be seen doing wrong here being publicly registered.

Great to hear! The number of precious metals guys adopting crypto, and crypto guys buying bullion/coins is increasing. Having a reliable and most importantly legitimate source of gold and silver will definitely be a big step forward. Earth coin already have that option, but with respect to them, it isn't handled professionally enough. Also, they certainly don't have connections to one of the most respected precious metals suppliers in the world!
member
Activity: 82
Merit: 10

That's why our approach is always going to be on pushing our 'brand' and what we represent out there as well as working on infrastructure and uses for the actual coin. We are actively working on a number of forks/ideas and wallets to test right now but we wanted to get the new Marketplace and Steps in full gear beforehand. I've been called stubborn and in some ways I am, but every time we've stuck to our guns since Jan. and taken a more measured approach we've been more or less right. Now I know it unfortunately hasn't helped our price short-term, but it's stopped us from dying medium-term. We believe you simply cannot just jump on every bandwagon these coins try to jump on to get a short-term value rise.


Once again, very well said Rofo. Everything you said is spot on.

While it is painful and disheartening to see the price drop further than we thought it could ever go, it is still VERY early days. Especially for Noble!
Treat these currencies like companies. Invest in the ones that have the best director, community, future planning and dedication and you will be minimising the chances of losing your investment. Remember that at this stage the investors (you), have as much power to make or break a coin as it's creator.

Unfortunately I speak from experience when I say; no matter how many new (flavour of the week) coins you invest in, you will probably never be one of the 1% that makes a profit.
Thankfully my ethos has always been to invest in long term coins and I have seen many 'fad' coins come and go in the 5 odd months since I got started.

In regards to the POW/POS/X11/anon war, IMO we already have the answer. The only algo we need is what LTC had all along. If it wasn't near perfect it wouldn't have survived the first 6 months of existence. Although, anonymity is somewhat important and as far as I can see the only truly useful advancement to the crypto scene since POW scrypt was implemented.

While Noble doesn't (yet) have all the latest/new features, ultimately that isn't going to affect it's potential.

See why Noble is right to stay as it is for now (first 2 posts):

https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=18166.0
legendary
Activity: 1232
Merit: 1000
What's even more funny is all these multipools coming up after weeks of hard work and beta that noone care about any more because anonymity is all that matters now. Well not funny per se, more a comment on the times.
legendary
Activity: 988
Merit: 1000
For better or for worse we wouldn't keep anything closed source, it goes against the whole spirit of crypto (besides the fact open-source got us here in the first place) but even more importantly from a realist perspective any closed-source service or wallet dealing with money of any amount simply would not be trusted.
I know. It is just that any new thing is leeched to the n-th degree so that the innovation has no value anymore. If it were that the innovation was to be to strengthen the products, I would completly agree. However, innovation is now being used to hype, P&D and then being replaced. It has become a money game instead of a technology game.
And for the record, I did not say keep it closed source but just for a while. That will tie the innovation to the coin while still allowing others to adopt. Just not immediatly and not trying to over hype the original inventor.

It's pretty funny to see all these POS coins backed by multipools coming up, the fact is they still rely on POW coins indirectly to keep there prices up. Wink POS coins also land up in few hands and they just become a coin for trading and hoarding. It's not helping taking cryptos mainstream.
1Kb
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
For better or for worse we wouldn't keep anything closed source, it goes against the whole spirit of crypto (besides the fact open-source got us here in the first place) but even more importantly from a realist perspective any closed-source service or wallet dealing with money of any amount simply would not be trusted.
I know. It is just that any new thing is leeched to the n-th degree so that the innovation has no value anymore. If it were that the innovation was to be to strengthen the products, I would completly agree. However, innovation is now being used to hype, P&D and then being replaced. It has become a money game instead of a technology game.
And for the record, I did not say keep it closed source but just for a while. That will tie the innovation to the coin while still allowing others to adopt. Just not immediatly and not trying to over hype the original inventor.
legendary
Activity: 1232
Merit: 1000
For better or for worse we wouldn't keep anything closed source, it goes against the whole spirit of crypto (besides the fact open-source got us here in the first place) but even more importantly from a realist perspective any closed-source service or wallet dealing with money of any amount simply would not be trusted.
legendary
Activity: 988
Merit: 1000
I think the question now needs to be asked how much business are the merchants getting from noblecoin users, if it's very limited then it means at this stage in the crypto game coin advancements has a higher weighting then actual use.
1Kb
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100

NOBL: Noblesse oblige:

This is just my humble opinion. I do see value in PoS alongside PoW to some degrees, and I think anonymity so far is the best real winner of these specs., but it's a niche now owned by DRK that we shouldn't try to compete with. I believe our niche and what NOBL best represents is staying true to cryptocurrency, merchants, long-term perspectives, acting noble (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noblesse_oblige), charity/philanthropy, Steps and from a purely economic advantage perspective the Marketplace and where we want to take it. These have been applied to us and I believe they've stuck so they need to become our strongest point.

I agree there is value in PoS and Pow and now anonimity is coming. But I doubt this will be the end solution or the final motivator. It is all tech and based on the engine. From what I see (analogy) is that we are trying to figure out how to put a V16 in a VW Beetle as a replacement of the V12 already sitting there. Sure the thing goes fast straight forward, but i doubt you will have much fun on the open roads. For the general public, they will go what the hype will tell them. But they must understand it first and see practical use for it. And all I have seen so far from the crypto community is to dig in the engine as there is money to be made there. The coins going any other direction are being ignored. Just imagine what would happen to a coin which can actually release a wallet which can be used by any non-technical person. Also imagine it being closed source so people cannot create P&D coins to lower value or diverse the actual improvement made.

Fyi: I hope that when Rofo finds a technical innovation, he would not make it open source for a few months. I really dislike the behaviour of the Crypto communitty where all is about being a copy cat and complaining when it cannot be copied.....

Ah well, going heads down again and continue working:P 
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1007
Must say that I appreciate all the thought that is going into noblecoin!
1Kb
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
Just like the dev I am also really curious which big bagholder is selling lately. I can imagine though why he is selling. The crypto landscape keeps on changing and changing. Every month we have a new feature. The new coins get bought/hyped and the older got dumped. Just as in any other upcoming business, improvements go quickly. Eventually every likes to invest in a coin that has a good chance to be a longterm survivor.
I think NobleCoin has to make a plan how to become a longterm survivor. what ingredients does a coin  have to have to survive.
Not being very technical this is a difficult question for me.
let me try to make a list of needed ingredients to survive.
1. thrustworthy.
2. active dev.
3. active community.
4. active marketing.
5. all premium technical options.

Most interesting point imo is point 5.
Like Rofo explained recently it's every month a new hot feature. But to become a longtermwinner a coin has to implement the new features that are really important. Looking at the graphs of LTC, NMC, DOGE etc is shows us NOT 1 coin did already make it to longtermwinner ( also BTC didn't succeed to this level).
Now I am trying to go into the technical part of a coin and I good easily talk nonsense, please correct me.
Isn't it our best option to stay with 1 NobleCoin ( contrary to Rofo's last plan) that is updated everytime we see a new feature that is a must to implement.
Talking for myself, I think POS and anonymity ( did I spell that right?) are 2 important subjects. I think Rofo's last plan by making a POS-Noble, a blabla-Noble, eventually will lead to hopefully at least 1 Noble that is appreciated and all the others will be thrown away.
I think, Rofo has a very good longterm vision and a bright mind. He must be able to refrain from many Nobles and just make 1 TOP-Noble that is updated a lot. I can imagime this will lead to many hardforks, but I think there is no other solution.


There are several problems I can think of based on that statement. Like:
- Each wallet needs to get updated by every user/exchange/pool at each change. Anyone not having done that will be on the old chain and when sending coins, these are lost.
- As the flavor of the month is changing rapidly, we can never be the 1st. So timing and the continues effort required from the development team to keep up for each change is very hard to master. And will reflect back on my first problem
- And new developments are "unproven". So when people find out that there is a severe issue in the wallet, a fix is required ASAP. Meaning that the development team needs to work harder (keep in mind problem 2) and a possible devaluation of the currency. (good for day trading but nothing long term). And again, the wallet needs to be updated by everyone.

So that is from a technical perspective. From a commercial perspective, any change to a currency will require time to get known to a wide audience. Just consider that 99% of the people are not looking at a day to day basis what has changed or even exists. So only those which are fast and keep up will see the changes and update/adapt accordingly. The rest of the world will just learn the changes maybe 2 iterations further. So commercially, changing things fast will leave a very large audience scared or unaware.

Just imagine when Apple would release a new and improved telephone on a weekly basis. Anyone buying an Apple would just think differently on when to buy one. Also hyping a product in such a small time window is basically impossible for large audiences. So from a branding perspective, changes to the core product need to be taken very seriously or make the core product less of a requirement to the brand. NobleCoin is currently based on the core product NobleCoin and that means that changes to the product should be taken with care. Extending the product line would diverse the brand and make the core product less important but still prime.
So having written all that, I guess I can say that I favor the choices Rofo is making:)
legendary
Activity: 1232
Merit: 1000
I live in Australia and have a registered Perth Mint account that's about six years old. You will be easily able to buy Perth Mint bullion shipped cheaply from Australia. Wink There have just been too many dotting the i's and crossing the t's in the meantime, since I can't afford to be seen doing wrong here being publicly registered.
member
Activity: 82
Merit: 10
Unfortunately, as much as I want to spend my Noble to help keep it circulating, I don't have a use for gift cards right now. However, as soon as gold and silver is sold for Noble I'll be very interested! Mining and buying Noble in preparation for spending millions of Noble on precious metals.

I'm almost hesitant to mention it, as people may gobble up all the amazon cards before I even get any. But you do know that amazon sells gold/silver coins, right? They sell basically everything. I'm not sure how their prices are, but at 20-30% off, I expect they'd be profitable.

I am a New Zealander which makes it prohibitively expensive to have precious metals sent from the US. Also most of the metals I want are from NZL or the Perth mint in Australia. Buying gift cards to use as a store of value in place of dollars is what I am trying to avoid.

I support cryptocurrencies as a direct form of payment, and believe people need to push to use them in place of government fiat currencies in order to increase their intrinsic value.
Despite the fact that the cryptography and technology that goes into creating these cryptocurrencies is far more valuable and advanced than any fiat money will ever be, the average person will never want this ground breaking revolution if they can't easily turn it into a physical item.
legendary
Activity: 1232
Merit: 1000
I think, Rofo has a very good longterm vision and a bright mind. He must be able to refrain from many Nobles and just make 1 TOP-Noble that is updated a lot. I can imagime this will lead to many hardforks, but I think there is no other solution.

The problem with this is there are hardforks you can't really come back from without more disruption. I'll try to put forward why we are taking things slower in summary. My months/weeks might be slightly off because I'm not double-checking the dates to be exact, but the pattern is the same.

Jan: The big thing was halving (everyone yelling maths ensured it doubled the price, cut supply, etc.), and an announcement of cutting supply and halving was a big deal. It led to pumps, speculation and a short-term price rise. Once the joy was over, the coin was dumped, the mining rewards were less, people made less money and the coin had less miners/community. 95% of coins that followed this pattern in Jan/Feb have since been abandoned. The expected increase in value didn't stay, and people stopped caring about halvings. The problem was never supply, it was noone demanded these coins to begin with.

Feb: The big thing was KGW & n-factor/fighting ASICs & multipools. Coins forked for KGW, and despite pressure to we didn't need to because of our single-block retargeting we've kept since release. Looking back KGW is now considered a disaster because of the weaknesses exposed in the way it is implemented. In reality they weren't abused too much to the best of our knowledge, but there were some very high profile cases that just destroyed confidence in that spec. DGW and DigiShield stepped in to fill this gap, and while I'm not sure if initial criticism of these still being vulnerable to some extent or another is true (including even classical retargeting), they still do fundamentally a very similar thing to what classical code can do without given fancy names.

Mar: Around this time it was X11 I believe? Everyone wanted to start fighting ASICs and x11 and new algos were here to save the day. They do well short-term, but will still have ASICs developed for them if they 'make it big' and are even more susceptible to bot-farms and FPGAs, they are far from infallible either. X11 coins still suffer now the same selling and people can't blame ASICs any more, so every day they aren't seen as crash hot as people hop over to PoS.

April/May: PoS/Multipools are now the big thing for a little while. However even these fads are slowly fading as people become more aware of the security and distribution implications of PoS. It also didn't help that everyone was so sure that the price would never go down because the 'evil miners' would never sell because there weren't any! People don't sell because they're miners, they sell because they want profit and don't want to hold the coin. That is the problem that needs to be fixed. Multipools also started gaining too much criticism because people stopped trusting the times they bought and sold and started accusing the owners of using them to manipulate the prices too strongly, which I agree with. Once the hype settled and the maths sunk it, as well as the fact they didn't provide an 'eternal increase in price to the moon', people realised they had relatively small effect on prices during the medium-high volume days these coins saw on exchanges.

May/June: Now we're hitting anonymity as the next thing. The problem with this is regulatory as well as the fact this feature is untested in the medium-long term, for the most part closed source if it is groundbreaking, or it is centralized and requires a somewhat trusted middleman if it's been rushed out this week to jump on the latest hype train. These criticisms are more and more coming to light. I think there is a lot of value in anonymity, but a feature like this needs much more than a month or two to be tried and tested as well as vetted for weaknesses. This cannot happen while it is in beta, is closed source, or relies on a central actor acting as an intermediary for anonymity. People simply won't trust it in the long term.

Correlation does not imply causation.

Now I personally believe what we are seeing are simple pump & dumps, for the most part. I'm not implying that's what these coins were made for or that any particular actor or key player behind a coin is a part of them, though in some cases it wouldn't surprise me, nor do I mean to imply these coins and communities are trash. These features, from halving, to KGW, to PoS, to multipools are then during these pumps being given the reason for these rises in value. They are being used as justification for a 'natural' increase in value, which ultimately proves false as the coin, as well as the dozen imitators released to milk the hype, slowly lose value over time when the ecstasy settles.

What this also means is if a big coin is pumped and becomes a hit for the month, all these other coins change to similar specifications expecting to do very well because of the value seen in these specifications. They do get some attention but never make it big either, because it is not the spec. itself adding value, it is simply the exposure and pump that the original coin received, planned or otherwise, that is never intended for other coins looking to capitalise on the original coins perceived advantage.

It is happening every 3-4 weeks, there is a new fad/specification that has been completely cast aside a month or two later. A number of them, were we to fork, would have already degraded confidence in our coin and done more damage than not doing anything at all and sticking to our guns with infrastructure and taking a more measured, thoughtful approach. These specifications are definitely valuable to varying degrees, but some are dangerous and difficult to undo any damage if a new fork/fad is required the following month. Those with a longer-term approach who are more critical know you cannot trust a coin that is simply going to fork every month and completely change its distribution and fundamentals and potentially take on something that does it more harm than good long-term. That's even if people see long-term potential in any coin, but that's a whole other can of worms and something we need to continue to work on hardcore for some time to make our case.

That's why our approach is always going to be on pushing our 'brand' and what we represent out there as well as working on infrastructure and uses for the actual coin. We are actively working on a number of forks/ideas and wallets to test right now but we wanted to get the new Marketplace and Steps in full gear beforehand. I've been called stubborn and in some ways I am, but every time we've stuck to our guns since Jan. and taken a more measured approach we've been more or less right. Now I know it unfortunately hasn't helped our price short-term, but it's stopped us from dying medium-term. We believe you simply cannot just jump on every bandwagon these coins try to jump on to get a short-term value rise.

NOBL: Noblesse oblige:

This is just my humble opinion. I do see value in PoS alongside PoW to some degrees, and I think anonymity so far is the best real winner of these specs., but it's a niche now owned by DRK that we shouldn't try to compete with. I believe our niche and what NOBL best represents is staying true to cryptocurrency, merchants, long-term perspectives, acting noble (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noblesse_oblige), charity/philanthropy, Steps and from a purely economic advantage perspective the Marketplace and where we want to take it. These have been applied to us and I believe they've stuck so they need to become our strongest point.
hero member
Activity: 778
Merit: 1000
Just like the dev I am also really curious which big bagholder is selling lately. I can imagine though why he is selling. The crypto landscape keeps on changing and changing. Every month we have a new feature. The new coins get bought/hyped and the older got dumped. Just as in any other upcoming business, improvements go quickly. Eventually every likes to invest in a coin that has a good chance to be a longterm survivor.
I think NobleCoin has to make a plan how to become a longterm survivor. what ingredients does a coin  have to have to survive.
Not being very technical this is a difficult question for me.
let me try to make a list of needed ingredients to survive.
1. thrustworthy.
2. active dev.
3. active community.
4. active marketing.
5. all premium technical options.

Most interesting point imo is point 5.
Like Rofo explained recently it's every month a new hot feature. But to become a longtermwinner a coin has to implement the new features that are really important. Looking at the graphs of LTC, NMC, DOGE etc is shows us NOT 1 coin did already make it to longtermwinner ( also BTC didn't succeed to this level).
Now I am trying to go into the technical part of a coin and I good easily talk nonsense, please correct me.
Isn't it our best option to stay with 1 NobleCoin ( contrary to Rofo's last plan) that is updated everytime we see a new feature that is a must to implement.
Talking for myself, I think POS and anonymity ( did I spell that right?) are 2 important subjects. I think Rofo's last plan by making a POS-Noble, a blabla-Noble, eventually will lead to hopefully at least 1 Noble that is appreciated and all the others will be thrown away.
I think, Rofo has a very good longterm vision and a bright mind. He must be able to refrain from many Nobles and just make 1 TOP-Noble that is updated a lot. I can imagime this will lead to many hardforks, but I think there is no other solution.
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1007
someone always sells 5000 nobles on mintpal.

Large solo miner (asic user) seling his blocks instantly?
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 250
someone always sells 5000 nobles on mintpal.
hero member
Activity: 1204
Merit: 509
Unfortunately, as much as I want to spend my Noble to help keep it circulating, I don't have a use for gift cards right now. However, as soon as gold and silver is sold for Noble I'll be very interested! Mining and buying Noble in preparation for spending millions of Noble on precious metals.

I'm almost hesitant to mention it, as people may gobble up all the amazon cards before I even get any. But you do know that amazon sells gold/silver coins, right? They sell basically everything. I'm not sure how their prices are, but at 20-30% off, I expect they'd be profitable.
member
Activity: 82
Merit: 10
Unfortunately, as much as I want to spend my Noble to help keep it circulating, I don't have a use for gift cards right now. However, as soon as gold and silver is sold for Noble I'll be very interested! Mining and buying Noble in preparation for spending millions of Noble on precious metals.
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