Topic: Novello Technologies new Mining System Project, prices as low as $0.3/GH - page 9. (Read 40562 times)

You're asking for us to be investors, why not give us the benefits of investors in return ?

That's a perfectly reasonable approach. Trouble is, to get to the stage of being able to produce a sellable product you need a huge amount of money, and the only way to do that is to get funding - a lot of it. If it comes from a single third party, then it usually means that the end customer will pay a lot more as the third party wants their money back, and then some.

If there's no new players to compete against the existing suppliers then you have limited choices, and that's not so good.

Thanks for your feedback.

Well for many the reason is we don't really care. All most miners care about are the following:
- does the manufacturer deliver ( on time )
- does the miner do what the specs say it does
- is the power to hash to dollar ratio a good one

Reason many dont get motivated about proposals is because these forums are full of scam artists, big talking wannabe manufacturers who may never ever produce a working machine from their 3D rendered dream machines. The most popular method now is, you produce the miner to a working sellable batch one level, send one or two to the various testers on these forums, they do an assessment of those three things, they post about it, and then, well speaking for myself, I will start to care.

If you look a couple of posts back, we've already answered this. Thanks for popping by, though. Did you like our pitch?

UPDATE

Well, it's coming to nearly the end of out first day on this forum, and it's been very interesting.

First of all, thank you to everyone that's taken the time to post on our thread. There's been a fair old mixture and it's obvious that there's many different views about our project and how we're going about it. That's perfectly normal and healthy.

Secondly, thank you to the posters that have taken the time to read right through the proposal and come back with sensible, relevant questions.

Lastly, we really appreciate the numerous emails sent to us wishing us good luck with the project and commenting on how the mining community needs something like this (even if it's not our chip) to compete in the future. It's sad to note that some said they wouldn't post on the thread for fear of being harangued by trolls, but that's the way of things.

As regards the comments about our lack of technical information, it's rather puzzling to us. Give any one of our engineers a die size, process step, power dissipation and hashrate of a mining asic and he'll tell you in about two minutes what it might look like inside. Any competent asic engineer could do the same thing. An SHA256 pipeline mostly contains only three building blocks, namely a full adder, flip flops and a 32 bit fast adder. Yes, there are other gate functions but those three dominate the area and power.

There are few different ways to implement the function as the arithmetic algorithm is fixed. We've saved some gates by using a word expander that generates 2 words per stage instead of one, but that's not particularly original. Where we have saved most area is in the implementation of the full adders and to  lesser extent in the stage flip flops. No matter who asks, we are not going to reveal how we have done these implementations or give nay clues to said - that's our IP and what makes our solution different. What we can tell you is that the power distribution looks like this:

Flip flops : 46.2%
Full Adders (in carry save chain):31.3%
A,E and Word generator Adders: 22.5%

We can also tell you that the area of our full adder is 1.74 square microns, the flip flop is  2.02. The rest of the design information is confidential.


No one has as yet commented about some aspects of our proposal, which we find odd, namely:

- The fact that we have designed our chip to be fault tolerant using extra pipelines as 'spares'

- Our Guaranteed Supply Program to support our core customers

- Our metrics for measuring what price should be paid per GH of capacity over time

So it either means that no one has read about them, or has no comment to make. Are they good/bad/informative/deceptive/wrong/right and soon. Instead there's been constant badgering about who we are.

We expect that most of this comes about from the fact that we come from a corporate environment where individuality is not seen as an asset. We have a different way of approaching sale pitches and projects that is probably somewhat alien to the forum members. Giving you a list of names, companies and accomplishments is totally meaningless because you cannot check if they are accurate or made up. Technical details you can check, and when our engineers saw some of the original specs for power dissipation on competitors chips, they knew they were way too optimistic. Who designed them was irrelevant.

So no, we are not going to give you any other details about our staff. At least we're being up front about it instead of pulling in some guys (and gals) off the street, doing a photo shoot and giving you a load of baloney about their background.

For any competent electronic engineer, our fault tolerance approach should be a dead giveaway as to the environment it came from, as should the fact that we've put a 32 bit microcontroller on each hashing module that will constantly test and rotate the pipelines to ensure data coherency, AND allows them to self test before they get bolted into a machine. That type of system approach doesn't come out of thin air, yet draws no comment, nor does our comments about product engineering.

We also thought long and hard about how we could keep our customers competitive long term. Now if we wanted to scam people, that's not the first thing that we would take any time or effort to consider. We've come up with a way to do it that's original - as a far as we can see no other company has ever suggested anything remotely like it - and it doesn't rely on the customer funding a second round of asic development.

So all in all a mixed bag, but interesting. Please keep the relevant questions coming.

I must also apologise to Spondoolies for even suggesting that they might employ someone to 'represent' them on the forums. It was unprofessional, so sorry guys, good luck with your 28nm chip.

I can see that you have selected flexible funding , which means you will get the cash anyway if you hit Your target or not .  What happens then , if you dont hit Your target. ? Do they get refunded or ?

So how about anything that suggests you're a real company?

The more you avoid the real questions the more you look like a scammer.

Who works for your company?

Why can't you give us any technical details about the chip?

Why can't you point us towards any of your company/employees previous work?

Thanks for your post. I can tell you from experience that VC companies most definitely do not have the interests of the end customers at heart.

The ones that we approached were happy to fund us, but not for selling mining equipment to the public, only for in house use. There are quite clearly  lots of them now bankrolling the building of massive hashing farms, and the individual miner is going to be squeezed out of existence unless someone does something about it.

Here's some facts to consider about VC funded programs:

1. The first thing they want is an Exit Strategy, which translates to "how soon do I get my 3 times my investment back?"

2. They don't like anything that involves very long leadtimes unless there's a huge prize at the end

3. They don't like anything that sounds remotely altruistic or that panders to a special group of people - quick profit is everything

4. They will want a company run in a manner that gets then the fastest return, not one that builds a good, sustainable business.


Of course they have their place, and like it or not the world needs them.

They are no friends of Bitcoin miners, I can tell you that,

Sure, I appreciate the feedback. We don' know what will happen to the value of BTC or the network hash rate in December any more than anyone else does, but we think our predictions are pessimistically realistic - if that makes sense.

I'm genuinely sorry to hear about your situation. It's not nice being made redundant, or worse still to be made to FEEL redundant, especially when you have spent the larger part of your life in a skilled job. I've been there and it's not a good place. Hope that you get work again and get back on your feet.

Just as an aside, have you thought about trying to get work in the UK or the Middle East? the UK economy in South East England is on a roll just now, and there's lots of jobs in construction (residential and commercial). I can't see a skilled US citizen having any problems getting a work visa. Try looking on indeed.co.uk or monster.com. Good luck,

Well, thanks for the compliment on our proposal. Nice to know that you at least read it, but it would be helpful to get some detailed feedback as to what you think is missing technically?

If you approach a bank for a loan, they measure your creditworthiness on what security you can offer. Your experience is only one of the 'risk' factors they consider, but ultimately they want a means of getting at least some of their money back if you fail. That's the bottom line in the UK, it might be different elsewhere.

A VC company is totally different. They do consider your background and experience and consider it essential if the project is to fly. However, they can place constraints on what you do, and of the 3 that we approached, 2 offered funding but their constraint was that the asic would only be used in-house; no sales to Joe Public, no design bureau to help start ups. No from us.

Ok we know the director. Please share with us the rest of the team. I'm assuming that the director isn't handling all the stuff. Who is your HW director? Who is your SW director? Who is your marketing/sales guy? Who is your chain-supply guy? And so on. You seem to fail to answer straight simple questions. Even if they are in the documents (which they aren't) it only takes you 1 minute to write a couple of names. You were pointed to 3 other companies who have their team available on their website. You got nothing. So either show us the whole team or this will be just another fail/scamming company.

The driving force behind Novello is a group of professional engineers based in the UK with over 120 years combined experience in the design and manufacture of complex, highly reliable electronic systems and devices.

Best team untill now, if the 120 years combined is true.
Any team with that much experience will get a loan from the bank.

tl;dr version:

We need money to fund out company.  We want YOU to take all of the risk, and pay all of the costs.  Meanwhile, WE will retain complete control of the company and earn the lion's share of the profits.

I'm only going to touch on a few things real quick:

"That’s all fine and well but the large amounts of money needed to develop new asic products make it all but impossible for individuals to fund."

This is NOT true.  Virtually every company, in virtually every industry, somehow manages to come up with a working product BEFORE asking the consumer to pay for it.  Imagine if you went to buy a new car and the guy wanted 30k up front and 2 years to design the thing and then build it!  Or if you called a doctor and told him you wanted to become a patient and he asked for the money up front and said he'll get back to you once he gets a few hundred other patients and goes to med school.  Etc Etc.  

Here's the thing.  If you have a viable business model you CAN get the money.  There are many MANY ways you can get funding, in point of fact that is what I do professionally.  Yet you balk at this because these methods will eat into your profits, or force you to cede at least some control of the company.  Well of course they do!  If you want someone else to take on all the risk and pay for your project it is only natural they THEY not YOU will be in charge, and THEY not YOU will get the lion's share of the profits.   Naturally you don't want to do that, you want to have your cake and eat it too.  You want someone else to pay for the business, but keep all the profits for yourself.   Your company doesn't have to be a scam for this to be a shitty deal to the consumer.  I can believe every word you say, and believe you to be 100 percent legit.  And it is STILL a shitty deal for the consumer.

next ken slaughter? or labcoin team?
amt?

wall of well crafted text and 0 technical answers.

summer 2013 bullshit preorder times are ended

sorry you are late for the party, now only whales can play this game

crumbs from community are out of your range too

so please delete your fresh account, forget about this forum and start creating roulette guides with refferar links.

you and your dreams/ideas/wasted time means nothing here.

sorry.

Then prove it. Prove you have the skills necessary to design and implement an actual miner. Most other teams, with far more experience than you, have tried and failed. What ASICs have you designed that are larger and more power hungry than a bitcoin ASIC? Exactly what part of the design did you do? What PCBs that deliver hundreds of amps have you designed?

You're joking right?

You'd rather have naive bitcoin noobs fund this project, taking on massive risk, for very little reward if any at all?

Funding via VC firms is the only way to go because those "rich jerkoffs" have money to burn/risk along with the basic knowledge/common sense to not get scammed.

Let's stop supporting preorders/crowdfunding because it always ends in the "customer" getting screwed.

Just happened to drop in, not shilling for anyone but I'd rather see directly funded or crowdsourced stuff than venture capital. It's a lot less conceptually soul-sucking to have the actual customer give you money to build them stuff, than some jerkoff with money to burn on pet companies. Just throwing that out there.

Thanks Silver,

You made my day with wordpress and steve wonder example. Right in the bull-eye!

Ohh, that's nice fresh breeze of air. Shitty website and shit loads to read. But only on paper, nothing more nothing less.
Approach is funny.
In this business especially here you will fail. You asking people like me for money, users who have knowledge asking for stuff and you cannot deliver simple answer.
I made myself clear and showed you that what you did wrote about VAT and limited company is bullshit. Yet still no response. You rather keep ignoring answer than face them and show us who is who.

I never see approach like yours: create shitty site with logo made by 5 year old, tell people this is new era of asics, ask for money with nothing more than just idea.