We had the opportunity to speak to some entrepreneurs locally and the talk went really well. We had quite a bit of interest on the subject and made some great contacts.
Check out the video and more info over at the Nxt forum:
https://nxtforum.org/nxt-promotion/john-manglaviti-speech-on-nxtbitcoin-in-front-of-entrepreneurs-and-small-biz/msg20843/#new
Topic: | Nxt | Blockchain Platform | Proof of Stake | Official - page 461. (Read 941287 times)
It was, you would probably admit, "abruptly interrupted", as has been stated for months, by a lot of people. But the problem, from where I stand, is not the apparently dubious distribution chosen (after so much care was evidenced by BCNext in making sure that the distribution was as wide as possible), that would be a problem in and of itself. The problem is the current concentration of coins and the range of problems that it can cause.
I am answering people here because some are quite polite and not argumentative or offensive. I have just a very small interest in the coin and will dump it at any moment because my decision is made and I won't participate in what looks to me like a scam or, at the very least, like I have explained before several times, a coin manipulated in extreme even if there is not intention to manipulate it. I mark it scam and move on. Period.
Sorry that I cannot be convinced that anonymous individuals, next to loads of money, with total lack of accountability, are going to do good. This thread itself is full of scammers with their schemes already on the AE and about to surface there, as an example, so...
DRK, as I stated, is next under the radar.
I am answering people here because some are quite polite and not argumentative or offensive. I have just a very small interest in the coin and will dump it at any moment because my decision is made and I won't participate in what looks to me like a scam or, at the very least, like I have explained before several times, a coin manipulated in extreme even if there is not intention to manipulate it. I mark it scam and move on. Period.
Sorry that I cannot be convinced that anonymous individuals, next to loads of money, with total lack of accountability, are going to do good. This thread itself is full of scammers with their schemes already on the AE and about to surface there, as an example, so...
DRK, as I stated, is next under the radar.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303898.20
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So BCNext wrote this: "Oh, BTW, don't send big amounts, please. If someone owns very big stake of coins this can lead a proof-of-stake currency to failure." (and then "big amounts" were considered decimals of BTC). But somehow the FACT that 10 wallets (who could be the same individual or very few) own almost 300 million coins is not a "distribution" nor technical problem...
\
So BCNext wrote this: "Oh, BTW, don't send big amounts, please. If someone owns very big stake of coins this can lead a proof-of-stake currency to failure." (and then "big amounts" were considered decimals of BTC). But somehow the FACT that 10 wallets (who could be the same individual or very few) own almost 300 million coins is not a "distribution" nor technical problem...
Read the whole thread. On second or third page, the max was fixed to 1 BTC. Everything is in public record. How the coins were distributed is also public and variable as you can see the hashes on blockchain info and coins were distributed accordingly and verifiably.
It was fairest IPO as the developer's stake were zero. And rules were same for everyone -- no exceptions for the developer.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/giveaway-thread-for-silver-bullion-warehouse-receipts-pls-share-this-link-608247
If you have already received some please don't ask again. Lets use these to show some new people how cool our client and asset exchange are.
If you have already received some please don't ask again. Lets use these to show some new people how cool our client and asset exchange are.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303898.20
\
So BCNext wrote this: "Oh, BTW, don't send big amounts, please. If someone owns very big stake of coins this can lead a proof-of-stake currency to failure." (and then "big amounts" were considered decimals of BTC). But somehow the FACT that 10 wallets (who could be the same individual or very few) own almost 300 million coins is not a "distribution" nor technical problem...
Funny indeed.
\
So BCNext wrote this: "Oh, BTW, don't send big amounts, please. If someone owns very big stake of coins this can lead a proof-of-stake currency to failure." (and then "big amounts" were considered decimals of BTC). But somehow the FACT that 10 wallets (who could be the same individual or very few) own almost 300 million coins is not a "distribution" nor technical problem...
Funny indeed.
I have read extensibly, about what went on with the so called IPO.
The IPO happened on this forum. It's not a "secret". It was open for two fucking months -- and everyone was free to join by contributing BTC. There were no developer's stake either. Everything is in public record and verifiable that coins were distributed according to hashes they submitted (which was public) during the IPO.
All this is verifiable. There is no mystery here.
anyone who has dealt with the NXT project would know that monopolization is not the problem, precisely the opposite.
-bm
-bm
Barabbas,
if you knew ANYTHING about this project at all you would know that decentralization is the cause of most of the struggles. If most NXT were in a few hands, then it would be MUCH bigger than it is today, and those private owners would be much wealthier. I really am starting to believe you're trying to create FUD.
if you think it's a scam, don't buy it, don't use it. It's really that simple.
-bm
if you knew ANYTHING about this project at all you would know that decentralization is the cause of most of the struggles. If most NXT were in a few hands, then it would be MUCH bigger than it is today, and those private owners would be much wealthier. I really am starting to believe you're trying to create FUD.
if you think it's a scam, don't buy it, don't use it. It's really that simple.
-bm
Exactly. Don't like it — nobody holds you in this thread. Only a very stupid person or a fudster would spend his time here.
Barabbas,
if you knew ANYTHING about this project at all you would know that decentralization is the cause of most of the struggles. If most NXT were in a few hands, then it would be MUCH bigger than it is today, and those private owners would be much wealthier. I really am starting to believe you're trying to create FUD.
if you think it's a scam, don't buy it, don't use it. It's really that simple.
-bm
if you knew ANYTHING about this project at all you would know that decentralization is the cause of most of the struggles. If most NXT were in a few hands, then it would be MUCH bigger than it is today, and those private owners would be much wealthier. I really am starting to believe you're trying to create FUD.
if you think it's a scam, don't buy it, don't use it. It's really that simple.
-bm
Not surprisingly such trolls don't accept their own arguments against bitcoin or fiat money which both has far worse distribution than Nxt.
Also I don't see any problem with the fact that few people ownes most part of all currencies. Someone ownes 5% of Nxt, so what's a problem? If you're not a greedy, envious, cheap person of course. If you're than yes, that's a big problem. For you. Not for Nxt or people who invested in it.
Also I don't see any problem with the fact that few people ownes most part of all currencies. Someone ownes 5% of Nxt, so what's a problem? If you're not a greedy, envious, cheap person of course. If you're than yes, that's a big problem. For you. Not for Nxt or people who invested in it.
Once again, you don't want to hear (read) what you don't want to hear. And that is fine. And it doesn't matter if it is old or new. I wasn't even remotely interested in cryptocurrencies when Next came out so pretending that I pronounce it a scam because I didn't get any is like pretending I would be mad because my girlfriend is not a virgin, ok?
I have read extensibly, about what went on with the so called IPO. I wasn't there or even here (in cryptoland), so it isn't personal at all. As a matter of fact my interest in NEXT was heavily piqued when I saw it was innovative and different. No problem there. The problem is that a few people -maybe just a handful, own it. And it is a problem ONLY because of two things: Anonimity and Lack of accountability. The third problem is lack of regulation, of course.
The three put together, make this a huge scam. Huge: There are thing that you can do, and not being a scam, and things that, if you do, make it a huge scam. The distribution used here, makes it a huge scam. Period.
And, once again, Bitcoin has no correlation with this in any way, shape or form. Anyone, OVER YEARS, could have easily bought millions of bitcoins. ANYONE at all, let alone mine it. So it isn't and never was a scam. Unlike next. Which is not to say there are not a lot of problems and flaws in bitcoin, there are. But it isn't a scam.
Next is.
HEy buddy, I think you don't know what the word "scam" means. Here is a link with a short description.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scam
Take care buddy.
Barabbas,
the NXT IPO was indeed announced. You can't pronounce it a 'scam' because you didn't get any.
Yes as people come to rely more and more on the system, those shares and the worth of a *large piece* starts to carry an absolutely enormous price tag. Someone could for instance come in and buy up all the NXT that are floating around. Maybe what- 20%? if they tried to do this, the price would increase 10 fold at least. Now try and buy up the privately held shares at that point. I hope you have 200 million dollars floating around to do that(at least).
Everyone always talks about this problem of someone obtaining a large stake and attacking the network. There are far better ways to cause havoc and destruction for 10 million dollars(at this point it would cost much much more to attack NXT). The fact is there are no reasonable motivations for doing something like that. Also, Bitcoin is subject to the same exact risk parameters(I could have bought 10 million dollars worth of computer gear at some point and attacked the BTC block chain).
-bm
the NXT IPO was indeed announced. You can't pronounce it a 'scam' because you didn't get any.
Yes as people come to rely more and more on the system, those shares and the worth of a *large piece* starts to carry an absolutely enormous price tag. Someone could for instance come in and buy up all the NXT that are floating around. Maybe what- 20%? if they tried to do this, the price would increase 10 fold at least. Now try and buy up the privately held shares at that point. I hope you have 200 million dollars floating around to do that(at least).
Everyone always talks about this problem of someone obtaining a large stake and attacking the network. There are far better ways to cause havoc and destruction for 10 million dollars(at this point it would cost much much more to attack NXT). The fact is there are no reasonable motivations for doing something like that. Also, Bitcoin is subject to the same exact risk parameters(I could have bought 10 million dollars worth of computer gear at some point and attacked the BTC block chain).
-bm
Once again, you don't want to hear (read) what you don't want to hear. And that is fine. And it doesn't matter if it is old or new. I wasn't even remotely interested in cryptocurrencies when Next came out so pretending that I pronounce it a scam because I didn't get any is like pretending I would be mad because my girlfriend is not a virgin, ok?
I have read extensibly, about what went on with the so called IPO. I wasn't there or even here (in cryptoland), so it isn't personal at all. As a matter of fact my interest in NEXT was heavily piqued when I saw it was innovative and different. No problem there. The problem is that a few people -maybe just a handful, own it. And it is a problem ONLY because of two things: Anonimity and Lack of accountability. The third problem is lack of regulation, of course.
The three put together, make this a huge scam. Huge: There are thing that you can do, and not being a scam, and things that, if you do, make it a huge scam. The distribution used here, makes it a huge scam. Period.
And, once again, Bitcoin has no correlation with this in any way, shape or form. Anyone, OVER YEARS, could have easily bought millions of bitcoins. ANYONE at all, let alone mine it. So it isn't and never was a scam. Unlike next. Which is not to say there are not a lot of problems and flaws in bitcoin, there are. But it isn't a scam.
Next is.
Barabbas,
the NXT IPO was indeed announced. You can't pronounce it a 'scam' because you didn't get any.
Yes as people come to rely more and more on the system, those shares and the worth of a *large piece* starts to carry an absolutely enormous price tag. Someone could for instance come in and buy up all the NXT that are floating around. Maybe what- 20%? if they tried to do this, the price would increase 10 fold at least. Now try and buy up the privately held shares at that point. I hope you have 200 million dollars floating around to do that(at least).
Everyone always talks about this problem of someone obtaining a large stake and attacking the network. There are far better ways to cause havoc and destruction for 10 million dollars(at this point it would cost much much more to attack NXT). The fact is there are no reasonable motivations for doing something like that. Also, Bitcoin is subject to the same exact risk parameters(I could have bought 10 million dollars worth of computer gear at some point and attacked the BTC block chain).
-bm
the NXT IPO was indeed announced. You can't pronounce it a 'scam' because you didn't get any.
Yes as people come to rely more and more on the system, those shares and the worth of a *large piece* starts to carry an absolutely enormous price tag. Someone could for instance come in and buy up all the NXT that are floating around. Maybe what- 20%? if they tried to do this, the price would increase 10 fold at least. Now try and buy up the privately held shares at that point. I hope you have 200 million dollars floating around to do that(at least).
Everyone always talks about this problem of someone obtaining a large stake and attacking the network. There are far better ways to cause havoc and destruction for 10 million dollars(at this point it would cost much much more to attack NXT). The fact is there are no reasonable motivations for doing something like that. Also, Bitcoin is subject to the same exact risk parameters(I could have bought 10 million dollars worth of computer gear at some point and attacked the BTC block chain).
-bm
+1
There's no getting through to him - apparently he holds NXT to a much higher standard than Bitcoin ("Oh well, when Bitcoin was a few months old and unproven I totally would have bought into in if I thought about it. As for NXT, it's only a few months old, must be a scam").
Barabbas,
the NXT IPO was indeed announced. You can't pronounce it a 'scam' because you didn't get any.
Yes as people come to rely more and more on the system, those shares and the worth of a *large piece* starts to carry an absolutely enormous price tag. Someone could for instance come in and buy up all the NXT that are floating around. Maybe what- 20%? if they tried to do this, the price would increase 10 fold at least. Now try and buy up the privately held shares at that point. I hope you have 200 million dollars floating around to do that(at least).
Everyone always talks about this problem of someone obtaining a large stake and attacking the network. There are far better ways to cause havoc and destruction for 10 million dollars(at this point it would cost much much more to attack NXT). The fact is there are no reasonable motivations for doing something like that. Also, Bitcoin is subject to the same exact risk parameters(I could have bought 10 million dollars worth of computer gear at some point and attacked the BTC block chain).
-bm
the NXT IPO was indeed announced. You can't pronounce it a 'scam' because you didn't get any.
Yes as people come to rely more and more on the system, those shares and the worth of a *large piece* starts to carry an absolutely enormous price tag. Someone could for instance come in and buy up all the NXT that are floating around. Maybe what- 20%? if they tried to do this, the price would increase 10 fold at least. Now try and buy up the privately held shares at that point. I hope you have 200 million dollars floating around to do that(at least).
Everyone always talks about this problem of someone obtaining a large stake and attacking the network. There are far better ways to cause havoc and destruction for 10 million dollars(at this point it would cost much much more to attack NXT). The fact is there are no reasonable motivations for doing something like that. Also, Bitcoin is subject to the same exact risk parameters(I could have bought 10 million dollars worth of computer gear at some point and attacked the BTC block chain).
-bm
Why do you think it's a scam Barabbas? just summarize for us.
-bm
-bm
he can't.
old story due to distribution but this story won't get truer by repeating past reality over and over.
this is old stuff and doesn't correlate to here and now. distribution is much better than most other
coins out there. this is a provable fact.
moreover, first you hear complains about the whales could manipulate the price or game nxt, then you
hear the same story other way around like the price can't rise because whales dumping, so what now?
better distribution or price rising without? sorry but you can't have both at the same time but since
you ask for this, it is an indicator for trolling.
it's simple, barabbas is exactly this kind of person bitching about prehistoric distribution, trying to
let it look actual but with a high probability he the first one to ask to close an IPO to get a bigger stake.
it's timewasting to deal with him, because he is not here to get facts.
I don't even speak with trolls like him. It's just pointless.
Why do you think it's a scam Barabbas? just summarize for us.
-bm
-bm
he can't.
old story due to distribution but this story won't get truer by repeating past reality over and over.
this is old stuff and doesn't correlate to here and now. distribution is much better than most other
coins out there. this is a provable fact.
moreover, first you hear complains about the whales could manipulate the price or game nxt, then you
hear the same story other way around like the price can't rise because whales dumping, so what now?
better distribution or price rising without? sorry but you can't have both at the same time but since
you ask for this, it is an indicator for trolling.
it's simple, barabbas is exactly this kind of person bitching about prehistoric distribution, trying to
let it look actual but with a high probability he the first one to ask to close an IPO to get a bigger stake.
it's timewasting to deal with him, because he is not here to get facts.
Actually, your answer is totally ridiculous and argumentative.
1.- Minimal as it is, BTC is a global phenomenon on which several -and growing- real life business are based. It has staying power proven through years of all kinds of attacks and manipulations and a clear path as to what it is, it represents and who the face of it is (The Bitcoin Foundation, with names and addresses, physical ones, as well and TAX IDs attached to it... none of which applies to NXT). Additionally, hundreds of independent organisms and enterprises do control who is mining and how much are they mining. So your point comparing NXT to BTC is utterly ridiculous, ok?
2.- You (who are you, by the way?) may have spoken to "some of these holders" or "Yoda" for all I care. It is argumentative and doesn't add any transparency to the conversation. Either put up or, kindly, shut up.
1.- Minimal as it is, BTC is a global phenomenon on which several -and growing- real life business are based. It has staying power proven through years of all kinds of attacks and manipulations and a clear path as to what it is, it represents and who the face of it is (The Bitcoin Foundation, with names and addresses, physical ones, as well and TAX IDs attached to it... none of which applies to NXT). Additionally, hundreds of independent organisms and enterprises do control who is mining and how much are they mining. So your point comparing NXT to BTC is utterly ridiculous, ok?
2.- You (who are you, by the way?) may have spoken to "some of these holders" or "Yoda" for all I care. It is argumentative and doesn't add any transparency to the conversation. Either put up or, kindly, shut up.
1. So, according to you, 4 years ago, you would have called Bitcoin a scam? If not, then come back in 4 years and we'll talk. (Btw, we have businesses starting up in NXT right now as we speak)
Quote
Additionally, hundreds of independent organisms and enterprises do control who is mining and how much are they mining. So your point comparing NXT to BTC is utterly ridiculous, ok?
Prove it. (In case you missed it, this example was to show how ridiculous your arguments were, you were asking me to prove something as equally ridiculous.)
2. It doesn't matter who I am, but I am one of those who are starting a business based on the NXT platform.
Who are you?
Pandaisftw
No, according to me 5 years ago Bitcoin was a new concept for a potentially revolutionary for of payment. And I would probably would not have thought much of it except for another anarchistic pipe dream. Now if I would have given it some deeper mind, I would have probably been a converted very quickly. But there was no money to be made in bitcoin. For years. So that, in and of itself, separates it completely from NXT whose main if not only purpose was, as clearly evidenced, to make a very few amount of people a lot of quick money. By design. Proven by facts and by it's "distribution". PROVEN.
2.- No, it really doesn't matter who you are. It is clear that it is another scammer whether your scheme is already posted or not.
Me? I just trade on these scams trying to avoid getting too burned and hoping to find Bitcoin version 2 -the evolution of Bitcoin, that will correct some or all of its obvious flaws. No matter much who I am, because I am not scamming people nor pretend to be an honest anonymous individual while taking other people's money.
Think of me as someone that will expose alt scams as he sees them. And run with it.
Why do you think it's a scam Barabbas? just summarize for us.
-bm
-bm
I guess if I don't answer you the interested parties -you can find them and their schemes generally at the AE, with many more to come-, would continue to 'disperse", so I will try to summarize the evidence:
Call it what you like, this was not only pre-mined but given away to 70-odd wallets (which can easily be controlled by one or a handful of individuals). That should light up the reds in itself, more than a Christmas Tree. It wasn't advertised at all, of course, and it was "abruptly" interrupted when people started to show up for a piece of the action.
As a consequence, and as of now, the top 10 wallets hold almost 1/3 of all coins (do your math yourself to corroborate the absurd distribution, going down the food chain).
There's total anonimity -i.e.: no transparency whatsoever- and lack of accountability. This means they (or even "he") can do anything they want at any time, no strings attached.
Assuming they have not done anything improper until now, even assuming they will not do anything improper in the future, in itself, the coin and their investors are being hurt but such outrageous distribution. You can witness yourself the massive dumping by just following the balances of the wallets.
That dumping not only affects the price of the coin, but also the volume, the reluctance of the exchanges (Mintpal) and the liquidity of the coin.
All of the above, if you are dealing with the best, more honest, nicest group of individuals that have ever existed on the face of this earth.
Now, if some or all of them (assuming there are more than one), decides to actually manipulate the price (you know, sell off to be able to buy double for half, rinse and repeat) you have your investment at the entire whim of just a few people who not only have and continue scamming to get your money -and getting it- , but could take most if not all of it with the easiest, simplest of strategies.
I know I haven't given you the answers that you want, because you are a believer, a fan boy as it were, but since you asked...
Actually, your answer is totally ridiculous and argumentative.
1.- Minimal as it is, BTC is a global phenomenon on which several -and growing- real life business are based. It has staying power proven through years of all kinds of attacks and manipulations and a clear path as to what it is, it represents and who the face of it is (The Bitcoin Foundation, with names and addresses, physical ones, as well and TAX IDs attached to it... none of which applies to NXT). Additionally, hundreds of independent organisms and enterprises do control who is mining and how much are they mining. So your point comparing NXT to BTC is utterly ridiculous, ok?
2.- You (who are you, by the way?) may have spoken to "some of these holders" or "Yoda" for all I care. It is argumentative and doesn't add any transparency to the conversation. Either put up or, kindly, shut up.
1.- Minimal as it is, BTC is a global phenomenon on which several -and growing- real life business are based. It has staying power proven through years of all kinds of attacks and manipulations and a clear path as to what it is, it represents and who the face of it is (The Bitcoin Foundation, with names and addresses, physical ones, as well and TAX IDs attached to it... none of which applies to NXT). Additionally, hundreds of independent organisms and enterprises do control who is mining and how much are they mining. So your point comparing NXT to BTC is utterly ridiculous, ok?
2.- You (who are you, by the way?) may have spoken to "some of these holders" or "Yoda" for all I care. It is argumentative and doesn't add any transparency to the conversation. Either put up or, kindly, shut up.
1. So, according to you, 4 years ago, you would have called Bitcoin a scam? If not, then come back in 4 years and we'll talk. (Btw, we have businesses starting up in NXT right now as we speak)
Quote
Additionally, hundreds of independent organisms and enterprises do control who is mining and how much are they mining. So your point comparing NXT to BTC is utterly ridiculous, ok?
Prove it. (In case you missed it, this example was to show how ridiculous your arguments were, you were asking me to prove something as equally ridiculous.)
2. It doesn't matter who I am, but I am one of those who are starting a business based on the NXT platform.
Who are you?
Pandaisftw
Nxt is like a magnet for freaks like Barabbas, it's amazing.
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