NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information - page 1645.

landomata

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Quote from: utopianfuture on January 15, 2014, 08:22:12 AM

Quote from: chanc3r on January 15, 2014, 08:14:29 AM

Quote from: utopianfuture on January 15, 2014, 07:57:29 AM

Quote from: landomata on January 15, 2014, 07:49:02 AM

Quote from: devphp on January 15, 2014, 07:48:22 AM

Quote from: notsoshifty on January 15, 2014, 07:46:58 AM

Quote from: landomata on January 15, 2014, 06:52:46 AM

Illegal content.....that is a problem whether the fee is 1nxt or 10 nxt

True, but the magnitude of the problem may differ. We shouldn't just ignore it and hope it goes away.

That's what I am talking about. If there is no solution, all these apps and promotions is a waste of time.

should we shut down the internet too

With current blockchain and network capacity then yes spamming is a huge issue. But I doubt lowering fee will cause it unless someone plan to attack the network. I send my messages free via whatsapp, skype, yahoo mess, snap chat and a bunch of other apps. You can't compete by lowering the price with NXT messenger. It has to be a special type of message in the blockchain.

When the novelty wears off, no one is going to pay a dime to send a conversational message via NXT.

But people will pay to send a secure message via NXT so why aim it at mass conversational messaging, if NXT messages are confidential and secure then this is a differentiator that means you can charge more and the volume will be lower.

There are many secure messenger apps out there. Go check them first. I have to tell you that if you want to compete in this sector, you are in a very tough sport.

A lot of smart guys are doing these secure messaging.

I have looked into this....there are many but on desktops/ web browsers.....there is really not a leading smartphone app yet............ESPECIALLY ON IPHONE....many IPHONE owners feel a little insecure with the current security situation.

bitcoinpaul

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Activity: 910

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Quote from: chanc3r on January 15, 2014, 08:14:29 AM

Quote from: utopianfuture on January 15, 2014, 07:57:29 AM

Quote from: landomata on January 15, 2014, 07:49:02 AM

Quote from: devphp on January 15, 2014, 07:48:22 AM

Quote from: notsoshifty on January 15, 2014, 07:46:58 AM

Quote from: landomata on January 15, 2014, 06:52:46 AM

Illegal content.....that is a problem whether the fee is 1nxt or 10 nxt

True, but the magnitude of the problem may differ. We shouldn't just ignore it and hope it goes away.

That's what I am talking about. If there is no solution, all these apps and promotions is a waste of time.

should we shut down the internet too

With current blockchain and network capacity then yes spamming is a huge issue. But I doubt lowering fee will cause it unless someone plan to attack the network. I send my messages free via whatsapp, skype, yahoo mess, snap chat and a bunch of other apps. You can't compete by lowering the price with NXT messenger. It has to be a special type of message in the blockchain.

When the novelty wears off, no one is going to pay a dime to send a conversational message via NXT.

But people will pay to send a secure message via NXT so why aim it at mass conversational messaging, if NXT messages are confidential and secure then this is a differentiator that means you can charge more and the volume will be lower.

So we should concentrate our efforts on an easy-to-use secure communication tool within the nxt system with not so low fees maybe. But this shouldn't be our big marketing thing, i guess.

BitcoinForumator

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Quote from: utopianfuture on January 15, 2014, 08:13:04 AM

Quote from: notsoshifty on January 15, 2014, 08:03:48 AM

Quote from: landomata on January 15, 2014, 07:46:41 AM

we have discussed this issue on previous on occasions...and i'm sure it will be solved but it's the same problem the internet has....i'm not smart enough to suggest any solutions for this one.

It's a different problem. With the general Internet, when illegal content springs up it can generally be dealt with (speed & mechanisms dependent on the type of content), and the rest of the Internet chugs along just fine. Systems that try to combat that (tor etc) do so with sophisticated techniques, and it's a cat & mouse game against the authorities.

Fact is, we are hosting a blockchain that allows arbitrary data to be stored in it, with no mechanism to remove it, and hoping that people won't take advantage of that in a way that harms us. Is that wise?

+1 Don't overestimate the load our blockchain can take as we may end up with 10G data file pretty soon. One reason Bitcoin devs don't want to implement any other features because Bitcoin already reaches the 10G blockchain and almost maximum bandwith by doing only transaction processing. So now they decided to be a payment specialist only.

When we have asset exchange, plus messenger, voting etc and pyamnet system. We may do 10X the load Bitcoin is taking right now. Need to think ahead.

Ok so we can't implement all these features because of blockchain bloat. But didn't we tout these as the advantages and the reason NXT is far ahead of Bitcoin and now the bloat is the reason it won't be implemented? Huh?

utopianfuture

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Activity: 602

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Internet of Value

Quote from: chanc3r on January 15, 2014, 08:14:29 AM

Quote from: utopianfuture on January 15, 2014, 07:57:29 AM

Quote from: landomata on January 15, 2014, 07:49:02 AM

Quote from: devphp on January 15, 2014, 07:48:22 AM

Quote from: notsoshifty on January 15, 2014, 07:46:58 AM

Quote from: landomata on January 15, 2014, 06:52:46 AM

Illegal content.....that is a problem whether the fee is 1nxt or 10 nxt

True, but the magnitude of the problem may differ. We shouldn't just ignore it and hope it goes away.

That's what I am talking about. If there is no solution, all these apps and promotions is a waste of time.

should we shut down the internet too

With current blockchain and network capacity then yes spamming is a huge issue. But I doubt lowering fee will cause it unless someone plan to attack the network. I send my messages free via whatsapp, skype, yahoo mess, snap chat and a bunch of other apps. You can't compete by lowering the price with NXT messenger. It has to be a special type of message in the blockchain.

When the novelty wears off, no one is going to pay a dime to send a conversational message via NXT.

But people will pay to send a secure message via NXT so why aim it at mass conversational messaging, if NXT messages are confidential and secure then this is a differentiator that means you can charge more and the volume will be lower.

There are many secure messenger apps out there. Go check them first. I have to tell you that if you want to compete in this sector, you are in a very tough sport.

A lot of smart guys are doing these secure messaging.

IveBeenBit

sr. member

Activity: 449

Merit: 250

Quote from: Damelon on January 15, 2014, 06:09:43 AM

Also, people like to communicate.
They love to send people chatter.

Give them the ability to do so, and I bet you that transactions will take off.
And Nxt is about transactions.

There is a feature that is usuable, so make it easy and cheap to use.
That's all I am saying.

Can someone explain to me what advantages AM offers that people can't get with SMS, or Google chat, Facebook chat, and other stuff like that?

utopianfuture

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Activity: 602

Merit: 268

Internet of Value

Quote from: landomata on January 15, 2014, 08:11:23 AM

Quote from: utopianfuture on January 15, 2014, 07:57:29 AM

With current blockchain and network capacity then yes spamming is a huge issue. But I doubt lowering fee will cause it unless someone plan to attack the network. I send my messages free via whatsapp, skype, yahoo mess, snap chat and a bunch of other apps. You can't compete by lowering the price with NXT messenger. It has to be a special type of message in the blockchain.

When the novelty wears off, no one is going to pay a dime to send a conversational message via NXT.

Secure communications seems like a good selling point....as non of the above APP's do that.

NOTE: This is an already released feature the genie is out of the bottle.....i;m just arguing to lower the msg fee....thats all.

EDIT: That would be foolish to suggest Nxt could compete with whatsapp....but there are a lot of people in this world who would use Nxt for secure communications.

Look like whatsapp would be much more secure than NXT's messenger in a foreseeable future. Your messages are always out in the public, inside the blockchain and we don't even

have encryption yet. Unless you do something about it first, it won't be a secure communication.

CIYAM

legendary

Activity: 1890

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Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

Quote from: landomata on January 15, 2014, 08:08:57 AM

so what do you suggest we do to fix this problem.

Perhaps this is the kind of thing that the voting system could be used to address.

If some AMs become too controversial then a vote would decide on their removal?

(my guess is AMs that contain controversial information will probably be encrypted anyway)

chanc3r

sr. member

Activity: 952

Merit: 253

Quote from: utopianfuture on January 15, 2014, 07:57:29 AM

Quote from: landomata on January 15, 2014, 07:49:02 AM

Quote from: devphp on January 15, 2014, 07:48:22 AM

Quote from: notsoshifty on January 15, 2014, 07:46:58 AM

Quote from: landomata on January 15, 2014, 06:52:46 AM

Illegal content.....that is a problem whether the fee is 1nxt or 10 nxt

True, but the magnitude of the problem may differ. We shouldn't just ignore it and hope it goes away.

That's what I am talking about. If there is no solution, all these apps and promotions is a waste of time.

should we shut down the internet too

With current blockchain and network capacity then yes spamming is a huge issue. But I doubt lowering fee will cause it unless someone plan to attack the network. I send my messages free via whatsapp, skype, yahoo mess, snap chat and a bunch of other apps. You can't compete by lowering the price with NXT messenger. It has to be a special type of message in the blockchain.

When the novelty wears off, no one is going to pay a dime to send a conversational message via NXT.

But people will pay to send a secure message via NXT so why aim it at mass conversational messaging, if NXT messages are confidential and secure then this is a differentiator that means you can charge more and the volume will be lower.

notsoshifty

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 250

Quote from: landomata on January 15, 2014, 08:08:57 AM

Quote from: notsoshifty on January 15, 2014, 08:03:48 AM

Quote from: landomata on January 15, 2014, 07:46:41 AM

we have discussed this issue on previous on occasions...and i'm sure it will be solved but it's the same problem the internet has....i'm not smart enough to suggest any solutions for this one.

It's a different problem. With the general Internet, when illegal content springs up it can generally be dealt with (speed & mechanisms dependent on the type of content), and the rest of the Internet chugs along just fine. Systems that try to combat that (tor etc) do so with sophisticated techniques, and it's a cat & mouse game against the authorities.

Fact is, we are hosting a blockchain that allows arbitrary data to be stored in it, with no mechanism to remove it, and hoping that people won't take advantage of that in a way that harms us. Is that wise?

so what do you suggest we do to fix this problem.

I also am not smart enough. I hope the community is.

What I don't want is for us to stick our collective heads in the sand, when we may have an opportunity now to do something before it bites us.

I'd like to clarify that my comments here are not meant to be pro- or anti-censorship, and I mean no moral judgement in any of this. I have a modest investment in nxt, and I don't want that investment to go down the toilet.

utopianfuture

sr. member

Activity: 602

Merit: 268

Internet of Value

Quote from: notsoshifty on January 15, 2014, 08:03:48 AM

Quote from: landomata on January 15, 2014, 07:46:41 AM

we have discussed this issue on previous on occasions...and i'm sure it will be solved but it's the same problem the internet has....i'm not smart enough to suggest any solutions for this one.

It's a different problem. With the general Internet, when illegal content springs up it can generally be dealt with (speed & mechanisms dependent on the type of content), and the rest of the Internet chugs along just fine. Systems that try to combat that (tor etc) do so with sophisticated techniques, and it's a cat & mouse game against the authorities.

Fact is, we are hosting a blockchain that allows arbitrary data to be stored in it, with no mechanism to remove it, and hoping that people won't take advantage of that in a way that harms us. Is that wise?

+1 Don't overestimate the load our blockchain can take as we may end up with 10G data file pretty soon. One reason Bitcoin devs don't want to implement any other features because Bitcoin already reaches the 10G blockchain and almost maximum bandwith by doing only transaction processing. So now they decided to be a payment specialist only.

When we have asset exchange, plus messenger, voting etc and pyamnet system. We may do 10X the load Bitcoin is taking right now. Need to think ahead.

landomata

legendary

Activity: 2184

Merit: 1000

Quote from: utopianfuture on January 15, 2014, 07:57:29 AM

With current blockchain and network capacity then yes spamming is a huge issue. But I doubt lowering fee will cause it unless someone plan to attack the network. I send my messages free via whatsapp, skype, yahoo mess, snap chat and a bunch of other apps. You can't compete by lowering the price with NXT messenger. It has to be a special type of message in the blockchain.

When the novelty wears off, no one is going to pay a dime to send a conversational message via NXT.

Secure communications seems like a good selling point....as non of the above APP's do that.

NOTE: This is an already released feature the genie is out of the bottle.....i;m just arguing to lower the msg fee....thats all.

EDIT: That would be foolish to suggest Nxt could compete with whatsapp....but there are a lot of people in this world who would use Nxt for secure communications.

landomata

legendary

Activity: 2184

Merit: 1000

Quote from: notsoshifty on January 15, 2014, 08:03:48 AM

Quote from: landomata on January 15, 2014, 07:46:41 AM

we have discussed this issue on previous on occasions...and i'm sure it will be solved but it's the same problem the internet has....i'm not smart enough to suggest any solutions for this one.

It's a different problem. With the general Internet, when illegal content springs up it can generally be dealt with (speed & mechanisms dependent on the type of content), and the rest of the Internet chugs along just fine. Systems that try to combat that (tor etc) do so with sophisticated techniques, and it's a cat & mouse game against the authorities.

Fact is, we are hosting a blockchain that allows arbitrary data to be stored in it, with no mechanism to remove it, and hoping that people won't take advantage of that in a way that harms us. Is that wise?

so what do you suggest we do to fix this problem.

notsoshifty

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 250

Quote from: landomata on January 15, 2014, 07:49:02 AM

Quote from: devphp on January 15, 2014, 07:48:22 AM

That's what I am talking about. If there is no solution, all these apps and promotions is a waste of time.

should we shut down the internet too

It's not black&white like that.

The Internet is not all-or-nothing. The nxt blockchain is. If you don't like what's on it (or, if you live in EU/UK/USA, your government or police force doesn't like what's on it), your choice is to host it or not host it; there is no middle ground.

notsoshifty

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 250

Quote from: landomata on January 15, 2014, 07:46:41 AM

we have discussed this issue on previous on occasions...and i'm sure it will be solved but it's the same problem the internet has....i'm not smart enough to suggest any solutions for this one.

It's a different problem. With the general Internet, when illegal content springs up it can generally be dealt with (speed & mechanisms dependent on the type of content), and the rest of the Internet chugs along just fine. Systems that try to combat that (tor etc) do so with sophisticated techniques, and it's a cat & mouse game against the authorities.

Fact is, we are hosting a blockchain that allows arbitrary data to be stored in it, with no mechanism to remove it, and hoping that people won't take advantage of that in a way that harms us. Is that wise?

utopianfuture

sr. member

Activity: 602

Merit: 268

Internet of Value

Quote from: landomata on January 15, 2014, 07:49:02 AM

Quote from: devphp on January 15, 2014, 07:48:22 AM

Quote from: notsoshifty on January 15, 2014, 07:46:58 AM

Quote from: landomata on January 15, 2014, 06:52:46 AM

Illegal content.....that is a problem whether the fee is 1nxt or 10 nxt

True, but the magnitude of the problem may differ. We shouldn't just ignore it and hope it goes away.

That's what I am talking about. If there is no solution, all these apps and promotions is a waste of time.

should we shut down the internet too

With current blockchain and network capacity then yes spamming is a huge issue. But I doubt lowering fee will cause it unless someone plan to attack the network. I send my messages free via whatsapp, skype, yahoo mess, snap chat and a bunch of other apps. You can't compete by lowering the price with NXT messenger. It has to be a special type of message in the blockchain.

When the novelty wears off, no one is going to pay a dime to send a conversational message via NXT.

wesleyh

sr. member

Activity: 308

Merit: 250

Quote from: bitcoinpaul on January 15, 2014, 07:53:34 AM

Quote from: landomata on January 15, 2014, 07:48:05 AM

there is currently a limit 4 msg per second.

What happens if the message-fee is so low that some people flood thousand of messages for fun into the blockchain? Is this doable?

Of course, it's easy.

BitcoinForumator

legendary

Activity: 1120

Merit: 1000

Quote from: utopianfuture on January 15, 2014, 07:51:28 AM

Quote from: bitcoinpaul on January 15, 2014, 07:46:21 AM

Quote from: landomata on January 15, 2014, 07:37:33 AM

@ CfB

Can we reduce only 1 type of transaction fee (i.e Message Fee) or do we have to reduce all the transaction fee?

Interesting idea. We still would have a nice fee for transactions (so the forgers get something for forging). But what would be the consequences for the network, if we would overload it with thousands of messages per minute?

We don't need lower fee now. We need a stable network, a full client and colored coin first.

Let's take one step at the time. We can't even transfer aliases yet for God's sake.

Exactly. When is the ETA for all of this? Or a particular block when some function will be implemented?

bitcoinpaul

hero member

Activity: 910

Merit: 1000

Quote from: landomata on January 15, 2014, 07:48:05 AM

there is currently a limit 4 msg per second.

What happens if the message-fee is so low that some people flood thousand of messages for fun into the blockchain? Is this doable?

Come-from-Beyond

legendary

Activity: 2142

Merit: 1010

Newbie

Quote from: bitcoinpaul on January 15, 2014, 07:46:21 AM

Interesting idea. We still would have a nice fee for transactions (so the forgers get something for forging). But what would be the consequences for the network, if we would overload it with thousands of messages per minute?

Forgers will pick transactions with higher fee in the 1st place anyway.

utopianfuture

sr. member

Activity: 602

Merit: 268

Internet of Value

Quote from: bitcoinpaul on January 15, 2014, 07:46:21 AM

Quote from: landomata on January 15, 2014, 07:37:33 AM

@ CfB

Can we reduce only 1 type of transaction fee (i.e Message Fee) or do we have to reduce all the transaction fee?

Interesting idea. We still would have a nice fee for transactions (so the forgers get something for forging). But what would be the consequences for the network, if we would overload it with thousands of messages per minute?

We don't need lower fee now. We need a stable network, a full client and colored coin first.

Let's take one step at the time. We can't even transfer aliases yet for God's sake.

Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information - page 1645. (Read 2761645 times)