NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information - page 1644.

landomata

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Quote from: utopianfuture on January 15, 2014, 08:41:00 AM

Quote from: landomata on January 15, 2014, 08:38:39 AM

Quote from: utopianfuture on January 15, 2014, 08:37:12 AM

Quote from: bitcoinpaul on January 15, 2014, 08:35:10 AM

Quote from: chanc3r on January 15, 2014, 08:32:55 AM

How many store the message securely in a network which is a permanent recoverable record (if you have the keys) of the messages.

secure and permanent message could be the selling point.

edit: lol

This a storage function not a communication function.

the internet is BOTH STORAGE & COMMUNICATION FUNCTION.

How can you sell your product if you don't even know its main functionality ? Don't compare Internet with NXT app, it is borderline stupid.

I was not......I think you should take a breather

notsoshifty

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Activity: 378

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Quote from: mkmen on January 15, 2014, 08:32:37 AM

I don't think the main purpose of Arbitrary Messages is IM function, hence the name.

Problem with storing unwanted data could be perhaps handled at the client side - client won't store and relay AM.

A good thing with AM would be TTL (time to live) option with some max value.

That's incompatible with the way nxt is architected, at least according to my understanding. It's all or nothing.

landomata

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Quote from: allwelder on January 15, 2014, 08:38:46 AM

Quote from: landomata on January 15, 2014, 08:33:45 AM

Quote from: mkmen on January 15, 2014, 08:32:37 AM

A good thing with AM would be TTL (time to live) option with some max value.

good idea

+1

This should be implemented

utopianfuture

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Activity: 602

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Internet of Value

Quote from: landomata on January 15, 2014, 08:38:39 AM

Quote from: utopianfuture on January 15, 2014, 08:37:12 AM

Quote from: bitcoinpaul on January 15, 2014, 08:35:10 AM

Quote from: chanc3r on January 15, 2014, 08:32:55 AM

How many store the message securely in a network which is a permanent recoverable record (if you have the keys) of the messages.

secure and permanent message could be the selling point.

edit: lol

This a storage function not a communication function.

the internet is BOTH STORAGE & COMMUNICATION FUNCTION.

How can you sell your product if you don't even know its main functionality ? Don't compare Internet with NXT app, it is borderline stupid.

bitcoinpaul

hero member

Activity: 910

Merit: 1000

Nxt provides hassle-free 100% secure messaging for some loose change. Maybe that is all we want?

allwelder

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Activity: 1512

Merit: 1004

Quote from: landomata on January 15, 2014, 08:33:45 AM

Quote from: mkmen on January 15, 2014, 08:32:37 AM

A good thing with AM would be TTL (time to live) option with some max value.

good idea

+1

landomata

legendary

Activity: 2184

Merit: 1000

Quote from: utopianfuture on January 15, 2014, 08:37:12 AM

Quote from: bitcoinpaul on January 15, 2014, 08:35:10 AM

Quote from: chanc3r on January 15, 2014, 08:32:55 AM

How many store the message securely in a network which is a permanent recoverable record (if you have the keys) of the messages.

secure and permanent message could be the selling point.

edit: lol

This a storage function not a communication function.

the internet is BOTH STORAGE & COMMUNICATION FUNCTION.

utopianfuture

sr. member

Activity: 602

Merit: 268

Internet of Value

Quote from: bitcoinpaul on January 15, 2014, 08:35:10 AM

Quote from: chanc3r on January 15, 2014, 08:32:55 AM

How many store the message securely in a network which is a permanent recoverable record (if you have the keys) of the messages.

secure and permanent message could be the selling point.

edit: lol

This a storage function not a communication function.

utopianfuture

sr. member

Activity: 602

Merit: 268

Internet of Value

Quote from: chanc3r on January 15, 2014, 08:32:55 AM

Quote from: utopianfuture on January 15, 2014, 08:22:12 AM

There are many secure messenger apps out there. Go check them first. I have to tell you that if you want to compete in this sector, you are in a very tough sport.

A lot of smart guys are doing these secure messaging.

I agree there are secure messaging apps, but how secure???
How many store the message securely in a network which is a permanent recoverable record (if you have the keys) of the messages.

What you describe is more like a storage function than a communication function. and yes there is an advantage to store contracts on the blockchain.

bitcoinpaul

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Activity: 910

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Quote from: chanc3r on January 15, 2014, 08:32:55 AM

How many store the message securely in a network which is a permanent recoverable record (if you have the keys) of the messages.

secure and permanent message could be the selling point.

edit: lol

landomata

legendary

Activity: 2184

Merit: 1000

Quote from: mkmen on January 15, 2014, 08:32:37 AM

A good thing with AM would be TTL (time to live) option with some max value.

good idea

chanc3r

sr. member

Activity: 952

Merit: 253

Quote from: utopianfuture on January 15, 2014, 08:22:12 AM

There are many secure messenger apps out there. Go check them first. I have to tell you that if you want to compete in this sector, you are in a very tough sport.

A lot of smart guys are doing these secure messaging.

I agree there are secure messaging apps, but how secure???
How many store the message securely in a network which is a permanent recoverable record (if you have the keys) of the messages.

mkmen

full member

Activity: 157

Merit: 100

I don't think the main purpose of Arbitrary Messages is IM function, hence the name.

Problem with storing unwanted data could be perhaps handled at the client side - client won't store and relay AM.

A good thing with AM would be TTL (time to live) option with some max value.

BitcoinForumator

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Merit: 1000

Quote from: utopianfuture on January 15, 2014, 08:30:22 AM

Quote from: BitcoinForumator on January 15, 2014, 08:24:30 AM

Quote from: utopianfuture on January 15, 2014, 08:13:04 AM

Quote from: notsoshifty on January 15, 2014, 08:03:48 AM

Quote from: landomata on January 15, 2014, 07:46:41 AM

we have discussed this issue on previous on occasions...and i'm sure it will be solved but it's the same problem the internet has....i'm not smart enough to suggest any solutions for this one.

It's a different problem. With the general Internet, when illegal content springs up it can generally be dealt with (speed & mechanisms dependent on the type of content), and the rest of the Internet chugs along just fine. Systems that try to combat that (tor etc) do so with sophisticated techniques, and it's a cat & mouse game against the authorities.

Fact is, we are hosting a blockchain that allows arbitrary data to be stored in it, with no mechanism to remove it, and hoping that people won't take advantage of that in a way that harms us. Is that wise?

+1 Don't overestimate the load our blockchain can take as we may end up with 10G data file pretty soon. One reason Bitcoin devs don't want to implement any other features because Bitcoin already reaches the 10G blockchain and almost maximum bandwith by doing only transaction processing. So now they decided to be a payment specialist only.

When we have asset exchange, plus messenger, voting etc and pyamnet system. We may do 10X the load Bitcoin is taking right now. Need to think ahead.

Ok so we can't implement all these features because of blockchain bloat. But didn't we tout these as the advantages and the reason NXT is far ahead of Bitcoin and now the bloat is the reason it won't be implemented? Huh?

Just use common logic. Features are good. We love features but don't kid yourself that you can get a fee lunch.

Fee lunch? I don't care about fees. It was promised that these features would be implemented with no mention of the blockchain size being a big road block. It's news to me what you just said.

utopianfuture

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Activity: 602

Merit: 268

Internet of Value

Quote from: chanc3r on January 15, 2014, 08:30:14 AM

Quote from: bitcoinpaul on January 15, 2014, 08:25:20 AM

So we should concentrate our efforts on an easy-to-use secure communication tool with not so low fees maybe.

I think so. The world is full of messaging tools, but I cannot think of any easily access file where the messages are permanent and verifiable that someone agreed to something or said something, i.e. you can't fake them, delete them, change them, if they are easy to use then people will find uses for such a thing - and this does not need to be cheap.

This is more like contract agreements etc. than simple messaging. For these types of things we don't need to lower fee.

davethetrousers

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Activity: 196

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This just in:

Firing up a node on it as soon as I am ready.

landomata

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Quote from: bitcoinpaul on January 15, 2014, 08:27:45 AM

Quote from: landomata on January 15, 2014, 08:26:19 AM

I have looked into this....there are many but on desktops/browers.....there is really not a leading smartphone app yet............ESPECIALLY ON IPHONE....many IPHONE owners feel a little insecure with the current security situation.

Well, it should be all but free if you want to address mass market.

Secure is our best selling point....if someone doesn;t want security they will never use our app.

utopianfuture

sr. member

Activity: 602

Merit: 268

Internet of Value

Quote from: BitcoinForumator on January 15, 2014, 08:24:30 AM

Quote from: utopianfuture on January 15, 2014, 08:13:04 AM

Quote from: notsoshifty on January 15, 2014, 08:03:48 AM

Quote from: landomata on January 15, 2014, 07:46:41 AM

we have discussed this issue on previous on occasions...and i'm sure it will be solved but it's the same problem the internet has....i'm not smart enough to suggest any solutions for this one.

It's a different problem. With the general Internet, when illegal content springs up it can generally be dealt with (speed & mechanisms dependent on the type of content), and the rest of the Internet chugs along just fine. Systems that try to combat that (tor etc) do so with sophisticated techniques, and it's a cat & mouse game against the authorities.

Fact is, we are hosting a blockchain that allows arbitrary data to be stored in it, with no mechanism to remove it, and hoping that people won't take advantage of that in a way that harms us. Is that wise?

+1 Don't overestimate the load our blockchain can take as we may end up with 10G data file pretty soon. One reason Bitcoin devs don't want to implement any other features because Bitcoin already reaches the 10G blockchain and almost maximum bandwith by doing only transaction processing. So now they decided to be a payment specialist only.

When we have asset exchange, plus messenger, voting etc and pyamnet system. We may do 10X the load Bitcoin is taking right now. Need to think ahead.

Ok so we can't implement all these features because of blockchain bloat. But didn't we tout these as the advantages and the reason NXT is far ahead of Bitcoin and now the bloat is the reason it won't be implemented? Huh?

Just use common logic. Features are good. We love features but don't kid yourself that you can get a fee lunch.

chanc3r

sr. member

Activity: 952

Merit: 253

Quote from: bitcoinpaul on January 15, 2014, 08:25:20 AM

So we should concentrate our efforts on an easy-to-use secure communication tool with not so low fees maybe.

I think so. The world is full of messaging tools, but I cannot think of any easily access file where the messages are permanent and verifiable that someone agreed to something or said something, i.e. you can't fake them, delete them, change them, if they are easy to use then people will find uses for such a thing - and this does not need to be cheap.

bitcoinpaul

hero member

Activity: 910

Merit: 1000

Quote from: landomata on January 15, 2014, 08:26:19 AM

I have looked into this....there are many but on desktops/browers.....there is really not a leading smartphone app yet............ESPECIALLY ON IPHONE....many IPHONE owners feel a little insecure with the current security situation.

Well, it should be all but free if you want to address mass market.

Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information - page 1644. (Read 2761645 times)