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Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information - page 171. (Read 2761645 times)

full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
Users of Wesley's client that sign transactions client-side will have their privacy compromised without SSL, even though the transactions and their password will be secure (assuming he is verifying the bytes before signing). I do see the value of SSL in this use case, because it is much simpler for the end user than setting up tor, and we are targeting users who presumably are not sophisticated enough to be running the Java server themselves.

My opinion was that SSL is not needed, and in fact cannot be used, for communications between nodes, and also that we cannot distribute an SSL certificate with the Nxt package itself. But for communications between thin clients and a public node, SSL is easier than tor for the end user for the purpose of preserving privacy - that is, from a spying ISP or government, not from the owner of the public node itself.



But how long do we expect before we change from TCP to UDP?  Once that happens we cannot use SSL at all.  So if its soon, do we just want to do things in the clear until then, since its going to be in the clear anyways?  Or perhaps you want to revisit going to UDP in the first place since you cannot get security that way?
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
However, https://bitbucket.org/JeanLucPicard/nxt/src/7e92adc64272dd7a095e0f36f286b13ad2541826/src/java/nxt/http/GetBlock.java?at=master

only seems to support getting txids from a block, not a list of hashes...

How can I get a trusted list of transaction hashes to know what to lookup?

Scanning each block for all transactions to find asset transfers is the only way I know of to get a list of asset transfers for an asset (or acct). For buy/sells, getTrades gets the list, but again I think it is a list of txids...

To go to an unmalleable hash based tx wouldnt there need to be a method to get all the transactions without ever using txid?

James

Do u have transaction bytes? If yes, then replace "signature" with zeros and calc SHA256, this will be hash.
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1134
@jean-luc
Can I rely on a "comment" field for transferAsset? Without that correlating multigateway deposit with corresponding asset transfer will have to use other means. At best, it will delay proper crediting. It sure would make it a lot easier and quicker for me if I could assume a comment could be optionally added to transferAsset

James
Yes, I will add that to asset transfer, it could have other legitimate uses, and asset transfers would not be that frequent compared to ask/bid orders to worry about bloat.
Thanks!
Where can I find latest API? wiki is totally out of date, I have no idea how to lookup transaction based on hash
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1134
Doh!

   "hash":   "a680aec728f77f26012a8e998a955cd11efbe988e777e038c9e47fccee94f613",

"GUID" is actually called "hash", I kept waiting for a "GUID" field...

Can you explain how the malleable txid can be trusted to retrieve the proper hash? Does this I assume I wait for 10 confirmations? Do I have to make sure a specific txid is matched with hash, or can I just throw away the txid and index off of hash. Is there a getTransaction I can call by passing in hash?

James

Use only hash, Jean-Luc added ability to get transactions by hash, iirc.
However, https://bitbucket.org/JeanLucPicard/nxt/src/7e92adc64272dd7a095e0f36f286b13ad2541826/src/java/nxt/http/GetBlock.java?at=master

only seems to support getting txids from a block, not a list of hashes...

How can I get a trusted list of transaction hashes to know what to lookup?

Scanning each block for all transactions to find asset transfers is the only way I know of to get a list of asset transfers for an asset (or acct). For buy/sells, getTrades gets the list, but again I think it is a list of txids...

To go to an unmalleable hash based tx wouldnt there need to be a method to get all the transactions without ever using txid?

James
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
Here's a reminder: Don't forget your target audience, the average crypto investor.

This is an assumption.

One that I don't share, by the way.

Umm.. OK.

Obviously this project is for the "elite" of the tech world.

Thanks for reminding why I don't even bother to come here anymore.

Disappointing to see such a great project / idea turn into such an elitist mentality.

What the buggery....?

Elitist ?

Just because we're trying to build something with a little bit more frigging ambition than mine, pump, dump, repeat ?

It's been said before, but NXT is for everyone.
If L+F (or anyone else) wants to concentrate on NXT as a first gen crypto, then he's got all the room in the world to do so.
2nd gen features do not explicitly exclude all of the simpler first gen stuff.
Maybe L+F could set up a first gen workgroup/posse to concentrate on the promotion and use of NXT in the first gen space........?

nxt is for geeks, not for average joe.

at least with pump and dump something is happening to the price and even small stakeholders can have some profit. with nxt only early stakeholders founders can profit.
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
@jean-luc
Can I rely on a "comment" field for transferAsset? Without that correlating multigateway deposit with corresponding asset transfer will have to use other means. At best, it will delay proper crediting. It sure would make it a lot easier and quicker for me if I could assume a comment could be optionally added to transferAsset

James
Yes, I will add that to asset transfer, it could have other legitimate uses, and asset transfers would not be that frequent compared to ask/bid orders to worry about bloat.


sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250

Can I summarise the SSL situation as:

 No SSL on nodes. Not needed.

 SSL on forums/wiki may be useful, if only as security theater.

 Wesleys client must have SSL in order to function securely. http://nxtra.org/nxt-client/

Correct me if i'm wrong.



My client doesn't need SSL to function securely (No passwords are sent to the server). Jean-luc talks about privacy. Not sure what he means by that though. However if you want to forge, the API requires that you send your password so that does needs SSL.

SSL on forums/wiki is needed though, since otherwise pw's are sent in the clear.
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1134
@jean-luc
Can I rely on a "comment" field for transferAsset? Without that correlating multigateway deposit with corresponding asset transfer will have to use other means. At best, it will delay proper crediting. It sure would make it a lot easier and quicker for me if I could assume a comment could be optionally added to transferAsset

James
hero member
Activity: 854
Merit: 1001
Here's a reminder: Don't forget your target audience, the average crypto investor.

This is an assumption.

One that I don't share, by the way.

Umm.. OK.

Obviously this project is for the "elite" of the tech world.

Thanks for reminding why I don't even bother to come here anymore.

Disappointing to see such a great project / idea turn into such an elitist mentality.

What the buggery....?

Elitist ?

Just because we're trying to build something with a little bit more frigging ambition than mine, pump, dump, repeat ?

It's been said before, but NXT is for everyone.
If L+F (or anyone else) wants to concentrate on NXT as a first gen crypto, then he's got all the room in the world to do so.
2nd gen features do not explicitly exclude all of the simpler first gen stuff.
Maybe L+F could set up a first gen workgroup/posse to concentrate on the promotion and use of NXT in the first gen space........?
member
Activity: 94
Merit: 10
If you want to subsidize and compensate the people who run the servers and service, why don't subsidize with NXT or charge NXT for using your service? Who will pay for it? Will you use the NXT community fund to subsidize the service in the beginning?
I dont have that much NXT myself to be able to afford any significant NXT subsidy.

I could charge NXT, but the whole issue has been that small stakeholders cant forge any meaningful amount of NXT, while everyone can mine enough nodecoins for the fees for my servers. I figured it was better to make multigateway services affordable for everyone.

I seem to have been fired from managing the NXTcash project and as trustee of NXTcommunityfund, but not sure. Nobody seems to tell me the important stuff.

I was planning on continuing to pay for my servers as long as I could afford to. Making it selfsufficient by charging fees would create stability, which seems like a good tradeoff.

James


You can apply for financial support from the infras committee which is set up for the projects as yours. http://107.170.117.237/index.php

hero member
Activity: 854
Merit: 1001

Lots cut....

Users of Wesley's client that sign transactions client-side will have their privacy compromised without SSL, even though the transactions and their password will be secure (assuming he is verifying the bytes before signing). I do see the value of SSL in this use case, because it is much simpler for the end user than setting up tor, and we are targeting users who presumably are not sophisticated enough to be running the Java server themselves.

My opinion was that SSL is not needed, and in fact cannot be used, for communications between nodes, and also that we cannot distribute an SSL certificate with the Nxt package itself. But for communications between thin clients and a public node, SSL is easier than tor for the end user for the purpose of preserving privacy - that is, from a spying ISP or government, not from the owner of the public node itself.



Can I summarise the SSL situation as:

 No SSL on nodes. Not needed.

 SSL on forums/wiki may be useful, if only as security theater.

 Wesleys client must have SSL in order to function securely. http://nxtra.org/nxt-client/

Correct me if i'm wrong.

sr. member
Activity: 952
Merit: 253
@jl777
if you need cash for servers, come knock on InfComs door.....

@Opticalcarrier;
I'm quite happy for u to submit a request for funding for SSL on forum and wiki servers.

+1
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
Doh!

   "hash":   "a680aec728f77f26012a8e998a955cd11efbe988e777e038c9e47fccee94f613",

"GUID" is actually called "hash", I kept waiting for a "GUID" field...

Can you explain how the malleable txid can be trusted to retrieve the proper hash? Does this I assume I wait for 10 confirmations? Do I have to make sure a specific txid is matched with hash, or can I just throw away the txid and index off of hash. Is there a getTransaction I can call by passing in hash?

James

Use only hash, Jean-Luc added ability to get transactions by hash, iirc.
legendary
Activity: 1120
Merit: 1000
Cfb, are you going to join nxtforum.org?
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
Please expound.  Really we only need a decision made on whether or not there is benefit if infrastructure committe will pay for my VPSs' SSL certs, or if I should just disable SSL on them.  The committe's response was "no we dont want to pay for SSL just use tor."  well I have previously laid out reasons that NXT has only partial tor support (DNS is still leaked out), plus, like I mentioned, tor is eventually compromised unless very harsh, nearly impossible security methods are taken

Apparently the certs that I am using, that is signed by a private CA, still causes some client-side software to fail, apparently they cannot just ignore the cert warning for some reason.

In the end we'll have clients that prepare and sign transactions completely locally and send them via UDP

good info, ill go ahead and disable SSL on them then. (it would still be good to get SSL on wiki and on whatever forums DNS name they come up with for http://107.170.117.237 forums site.  If the community decided the new forums to be on nxtcrypto.org then a wildcard would be the way to go anyways, otherwise 2 different certs are needed.

Unless the wiki and forums operator are willing to purchase it out of their own pocket.

Users of Wesley's client that sign transactions client-side will have their privacy compromised without SSL, even though the transactions and their password will be secure (assuming he is verifying the bytes before signing). I do see the value of SSL in this use case, because it is much simpler for the end user than setting up tor, and we are targeting users who presumably are not sophisticated enough to be running the Java server themselves.

My opinion was that SSL is not needed, and in fact cannot be used, for communications between nodes, and also that we cannot distribute an SSL certificate with the Nxt package itself. But for communications between thin clients and a public node, SSL is easier than tor for the end user for the purpose of preserving privacy - that is, from a spying ISP or government, not from the owner of the public node itself.

full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
UDP? Why on earth would udp be used over tcp?? Multicast applications?

Not over TCP. Over IP.

lols.  lost in translation.
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
Here's a reminder: Don't forget your target audience, the average crypto investor.

This is an assumption.

One that I don't share, by the way.

Umm.. OK.

Obviously this project is for the "elite" of the tech world.

Thanks for reminding why I don't even bother to come here anymore.

+1 another investor chased away, congrats to the great community
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
So I guess it's for realtime transaction multicasting?

Global multicasting doesn't work. It's for realtime transaction unicasting.
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100

I see so many red flags and things that could kill nxt, that it is even a wonder nxt is still around, but not for long this way

legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1134
Thanks. I dont see it yet, so I guess not in current testnet. I will allocate 256 bits for it

It's "hash". It should be in production already.


To clarify, I cannot trust the txid, but I can trust the GUID that I get via getTransaction for the untrusted txid?

Yes.
Doh!

   "hash":   "a680aec728f77f26012a8e998a955cd11efbe988e777e038c9e47fccee94f613",

"GUID" is actually called "hash", I kept waiting for a "GUID" field...

Can you explain how the malleable txid can be trusted to retrieve the proper hash? Does this I assume I wait for 10 confirmations? Do I have to make sure a specific txid is matched with hash, or can I just throw away the txid and index off of hash. Is there a getTransaction I can call by passing in hash?

James
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