NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information - page 1998.

laowai80

member

Activity: 98

Merit: 10

Quote from: marcus03 on December 31, 2013, 04:06:47 AM

Please do not call voting based on NXT assets democracy. It is capitalism.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy:
Democracy is a form of government in which all eligible citizens participate equally—either directly or through elected representatives—in the proposal, development, and creation of laws. It encompasses social, economic and cultural conditions that enable the free and equal practice of political self-determination.

Regarding a better approach: I currently don't have one, but I'll think about it. I'm currently thinking "One man, one vote" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_man,_one_vote), but I see the implemtation problems with this.

There are different types of democracy, what you quoted is just one of them, and not the best one. I briefly outlined above why it's not the best one. If you're interested to know more, you should google different types of democracy, start with Greeks.

"One man, one vote" is a populist kind of democracy with a short historic lifespan.

Capitalism has nothing to do with it. Yes, it's capitalism, why, what do you suggest? We build communism here? Cheesy

One big country tried and got burned, thanx but no thanx.

marcus03

full member

Activity: 224

Merit: 100

Quote from: laowai80 on December 31, 2013, 03:48:26 AM

So, what's good about people with no assets voting in populist politicians who promise them free goodies, thus bankrupting the system by making it to borrow more money from future generations? This system is bound to collapse sooner rather than later.

So, voting based on the number of assets is the most stable kind of democracy.

In your first paragraph you are describing an effect of democracy on an economic system.

In your second paragraph you seem to say that the architecture of the economic system defines if we have democracy.

Please do not call voting based on NXT assets democracy. It is capitalism.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy:
Democracy is a form of government in which all eligible citizens participate equally—either directly or through elected representatives—in the proposal, development, and creation of laws. It encompasses social, economic and cultural conditions that enable the free and equal practice of political self-determination.

Regarding a better approach: I currently don't have one, but I'll think about it. I'm currently thinking "One man, one vote" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_man,_one_vote), but I see the implemtation problems with this.

coolfish

full member

Activity: 121

Merit: 100

Quote from: laowai80 on December 31, 2013, 04:01:37 AM

Quote from: coolfish on December 31, 2013, 03:56:42 AM

I have a fear, I guess not everyone will login account and vote. Proportion to the vote may be low

This is inevitable and is ok.

What should really be feared is building a system similar to current debt overladen western democracies, with corrupt politicians racing to promise more to whoever votes for them. As a result, there are families living on doles from generation to generation and not even planning to go to work. But there is no free cheese. Those 'free' goodies are financed by tax payers, borrowed from future generations. And this system is on the road to ruin and speeding down that slope. NXT wants to be built the same way? I doubt it. It will not survive if built the same way. Populist democracies have a short lifespan.

'1 NXT = 1 vote' is the only approach ensuring long-term stability of the system.

I agree with these theories, but we need to test the practical application.

landomata

legendary

Activity: 2184

Merit: 1000

Quote from: laowai80 on December 31, 2013, 04:01:37 AM

'1 NXT = 1 vote' is the only approach ensuring long-term stability of the system.

CORRECT cuz if I sell my Nxt...I SHOULD NOT be allowed to vote even though i still have my account.

laowai80

member

Activity: 98

Merit: 10

Quote from: coolfish on December 31, 2013, 03:56:42 AM

I have a fear, I guess not everyone will login account and vote. Proportion to the vote may be low

This is inevitable and is ok.

What should really be feared is building a system similar to current debt overladen western democracies, with corrupt politicians racing to promise more to whoever votes for them. As a result, there are families living on doles from generation to generation and not even planning to go to work. But there is no free cheese. Those 'free' goodies are financed by tax payers, borrowed from future generations. And this system is on the road to ruin and speeding down that slope. NXT wants to be built the same way? I doubt it. It will not survive if built the same way. Populist democracies have a short lifespan.

'1 NXT = 1 vote' is the only approach ensuring long-term stability of the system.

After all, it's as simple as - the more NXTs you have, the more vested interest you have in survival of NXT and work more for it to survive, so have more rights to voice your opinion. Really no brainer here.

CoinBuzz

sr. member

Activity: 490

Merit: 250

Anybody Selling NXT, I'm buying.

PM Me with your price & amount.

landomata

legendary

Activity: 2184

Merit: 1000

Quote from: marcus03 on December 31, 2013, 03:52:57 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

We need the Voting System for a fully functional and efficient NXT Asset Exchange.

Then, as Come-from-Beyond has been trying to insinuate repeatedly, we can vote AGAINST anything that can do harm to NXT.

At that point you've opened Pandoras Box already.

Let me play Mr. 91% big-stake with his assets spread over multiple accounts. I want to rule NXT.

Act 1 - First vote: Should we use voting in general? I vote yes - and win
Act 2 - Second vote: Should we have a 95% rule for certain rules? Nah... - I win.
Act 3 - Third vote: Should we have a 90% rule for certain rules? Sounds good. I win.
Act 4 - I am now in control over NXT.

Can you please suggest another way we can implement collective decision making so that we can have the Asset Exchange up and running at the earliest.

coolfish

full member

Activity: 121

Merit: 100

Quote from: laowai80 on December 31, 2013, 03:48:26 AM

Quote from: marcus03 on December 31, 2013, 03:37:03 AM

It has been repeatedly said that voting based on number of NXT would be a democracy approach. It is not. It is severe capitalism.

Imagine that your government would be voted based on the assets you hold in your bank account.

So, what's good about people with no assets voting in populist politicians who promise them free goodies, thus bankrupting the system by making it to borrow more money from future generations? This system is bound to collapse sooner rather than later.

So, voting based on the number of assets is the most stable kind of democracy.

I have a fear, I guess not everyone will login account and vote. Proportion to the vote may be low

bitcoinpaul

hero member

Activity: 910

Merit: 1000

Quote from: swartzfeger on December 30, 2013, 10:06:44 PM

Does anyone know details about the API cryptocurrency uses to display NXT info? I'm writing a NXT ticker for the Mac and haven't heard back from Degex on my query.

GCInc/Graviton? Anybody?

Nice. Report back if you are successful.

fmiboy

full member

Activity: 189

Merit: 100

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on December 31, 2013, 02:18:19 AM

Well, guys. Something should be fixed in Nxt protocol to attract more girls. I would pay 1K for a good idea.

Girls like shopping, we better open more online shops, possibly, attract offline ones!

13792774143018875909

marcus03

full member

Activity: 224

Merit: 100

Quote from: ?? on ??

We need the Voting System for a fully functional and efficient NXT Asset Exchange.

Then, as Come-from-Beyond has been trying to insinuate repeatedly, we can vote AGAINST anything that can do harm to NXT.

At that point you've opened Pandoras Box already.

Let me play Mr. 91% big-stake with his assets spread over multiple accounts. I want to rule NXT.

Act 1 - First vote: Should we use voting in general? I vote yes - and win
Act 2 - Second vote: Should we have a 95% rule for certain rules? Nah... - I win.
Act 3 - Third vote: Should we have a 90% rule for certain rules? Sounds good. I win.
Act 4 - I am now in control over NXT.

laowai80

member

Activity: 98

Merit: 10

Quote from: marcus03 on December 31, 2013, 03:37:03 AM

It has been repeatedly said that voting based on number of NXT would be a democracy approach. It is not. It is severe capitalism.

Imagine that your government would be voted based on the assets you hold in your bank account.

So, what's good about people with no assets voting in populist politicians who promise them free goodies, thus bankrupting the system by making it to borrow more money from future generations? This system is bound to collapse sooner rather than later.

So, voting based on the number of assets is the most stable kind of democracy.

landomata

legendary

Activity: 2184

Merit: 1000

Quote from: marcus03 on December 31, 2013, 03:37:03 AM

As soon as someone can prove that neither 90%, 75% or 51% of all NXT assets is hold by a group of say 10 people or less, I'll second this.

Problem is - you can't...

I still don't get why anyone would want voting based on number of NXT you have.

It has been repeatedly said that voting based on number of NXT would be a democracy approach. It is not. It is severe capitalism.

Imagine that your government would be voted based on the assets you hold in your bank account.

I kindly suggest you to pls advise a better approach to this problem.

We are open to practical solutions....as Nxt is an anonymous decentralized system...it would be very hard indeed to prove any accounts identity.

visaco

sr. member

Activity: 359

Merit: 250

some fun

achmed the dead terrorist

starik69

legendary

Activity: 1367

Merit: 1000

Hallmarks are broken?

opticalcarrier

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Quote from: klee on December 31, 2013, 03:21:51 AM

Quote from: klee on December 30, 2013, 12:49:53 PM

Quote from: opticalcarrier on December 30, 2013, 12:00:15 PM

can you verify with your IT guy how that DDOS prevention works? Cause Im not certain yet if that will help us, as I thought the DDOS we were seeing was a specialized protocol that worked well above OSI layers 4/5. I thought the DDOS attacks we were seeing were well into the cient protocol operation. IF that is the case then Im not sure this DDOS thing you have will help.

Can an expert who has analyzed the DDoS attacks comment here? Please let us know what your IT guy says. If this is viable then we all really need to go figure out how to make this work on our particular distros on our VPSs

Quote from: gbeirn on December 30, 2013, 12:27:12 PM

Yes I would like to know this as well. If if does, I can deploy it on my VPSs

Forwarded this to him, I will let u know asap...

"The ddos-deflate bash script is a free anti-ddos solutions so if you suffer from a large scale DDos attack it will not be possible to stop it.

In that case you will need a hardware firewall in front from your VPS which are very expensive ( ~$30k ) or you could move to some host that provides anti-ddos firewall protection ( which is also too expensive).

So at the layer 7 DDOs attack attacker looks like a legitimate connection, and is therefore passed on to the application server.
At that time the attacker begins requesting large numbers of files/objects using HTTP GET.

The DDOS Deflate will monitor these requests (to the ports that we have already configure at the Iptables firewall or the Advanced Policy Firewall) and block the IPs that exceed the threshold that we have configure at the ddos.conf file."

I hope this help guys, my friend registered here but is isolated in the Newbies section atm.

I will be away today so I wish everyone a happy New Year with health, luck, love & wealth!

Ok thanks this is good info. Someone whohas analyzed our recemt ddos attacks would have to comment next

marcus03

full member

Activity: 224

Merit: 100

Quote from: landomata on December 31, 2013, 01:12:56 AM

SIMPLE IDEA:

1) Implement voting as we DO NEED A FUNCTIONAL ASSET EXCHANGE ASAP!

2) For Freezing accounts we need MINIMUM THRESHOLD OF 75% VOTES -- 750 Million Nxt....if we get 749,000,000 ...no freeze.

3) To destroy we need MINIMUM THRESHOLD OF 90% VOTES -- 900 Million Nxt

51% can be use for normal votes...routine business Exchange stuff....but the 2 exceptions above should be set in stone.

As soon as someone can prove that neither 90%, 75% or 51% of all NXT assets is hold by a group of say 10 people or less, I'll second this.

Problem is - you can't...

I still don't get why anyone would want voting based on number of NXT you have.

It has been repeatedly said that voting based on number of NXT would be a democracy approach. It is not. It is severe capitalism.

Imagine that your government would be voted based on the assets you hold in your bank account.

laowai80

member

Activity: 98

Merit: 10