Version 0.3.1 of my article: http://www.docdroid.net/abp9/forging0-3-1.pdf.html
Added a new section about splitting of accounts. Conclusions:
- Under Exp-algorithm, the probability that an account with relative active balance b generates the next block is exactly b; if all relative balances are small,
then the U-algorithm essentially works the same way as the Exp-algorithm.
- In general, splitting has no effect on the (total) probability of block generation under Exp-algorithm, and this probability always decreases under U-algorithm. However, the difference is usually not very significant (even if the account is split into many small parts).
- Thus, neither algorithm encourages splitting (anyhow, there is some cost in maintaining many forging accounts, so, in principle, there is no reason to increase too much the number of them in the case of Exp-algorithm as well). The reader should be warned, however, that all the conclusions in this article are valid for mathematical models, and the real world can introduce some corrections.
- In particular, it should be observed that, if the attacker could harm the network by splitting his account into many small ones, then a very small gain that he achieves by not splitting would not prevent him from attacking the network. If this attacker's strategy presents any real danger, we may consider introducing
a lower limit for forging (e.g., only accounts with more than, say, 100 NXT are allowed to forge).
Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information - page 225. (Read 2761645 times)
Ricky I would appreciate if you return the NXTcashoperatingfund to me because I decided to give this 1M NXT to a common fund the early adopters/big stakeholders committee will form (official announcement in the following hours) so it can be handled by the community for various projects (including anonymity features) - better to do it more officially rather than James handling the whole chunk, I am sure he will agree..
EDIT: The community should be aware that a big part of the early adopters will ONLY fund from now on in this way - the committee is made exactly for this reason, transparency, fairness and optimal management of resources (both ours and the community's).
Of course, if some insidious large NXT holders wanted to ensure your scenario, all they would have to do is offer a matching donation of NXT to the mining outputs.
I think just a % above to ensure highest ROI would do the trick, and be sustainable for the longest period. Then again, I might just be thinking this way because I'm already completely jealous of those of you who can mine in these NXT pools.
I dont like hearing about mining related to Nxt.But i just consider it automatizing a way of people buying Nxt with their resources.We should think if Nxt mining should be encouraged. If yes.. this idea is quite similar of what nodecoins was supposed to do,but in a different way.It would be a special giveout of some Nxt,as imo we are still in the IPO, although people dont see it this way.
PROPOSAL TO STIMULATE NXT MINING POOLS
A fund is created,with a certain amount of Nxt.For example a fund commitee creates and manages a Nxt account xxxxxxxxxxx, with 500.000 Nxt(any number).Also anyone can support it by donating money to that account.
All those Nxt will be distributed to everyone who has mined in a certain period,from April 1st to April 30th for example, in proportion to how much they have mined.That would be done by sending the Nxt to the pool owners,who can pay it accordingly,as all the workers and how much they mined is public info.
If you mined 0,1% of the total Nxt mined ,you would get 0,1% of the added Nxt too.
This would increase the ROI for mining here,making these pools the most profitable(by far depending on how much is donated), and bringing a lot of people to Nxt> Lots of miners> more Nxt bought every day>buy pressure> price increases. It would also put Nxt in everyones mouth and bring hype.
I have no idea how much people can this bring,but if it did success in introducing Nxt to a lot of people,the increase in the price could be significant.
Some people may think its unfair to subsidize this,but it is a private project,and could be a nice way to let initial stakeholders give out some Nxt, that could be distributed to hundreds(i hope thousands) of persons.
For anyone who has been into poker,this would be like a Rake race.It brings players to a poker room,and make them play as much hands as they can competing between them,because the more you rake you generate,the bigger the prize you will get,although in this case the payout would be lineal.
If we can optimize how many Nxt to giveout,we would bring the most competitive miners in the world to Nxt.And this doesnt punish small miners in any way(their ROI is never reduced).And even if many of them sell their Nxt after, they could never sell more than what they have generated and has been bought by the pools,so it cant be EV- in the long term.
Ive created this thread to discuss.
https://nextcoin.org/index.php/topic,4487.0.html
If you sibsidize the pool to make it the most profitable you have to consider the likely scenario in which those droves of pump and dump selfish miners come by for the free lunch then just sell all the nxt to btc on their way out the door.
even if they wanted to dump it all, the pool would be able to buy most if it back. I have been doing most of the NXT buys for the pool on BTER, that's why the volume is so up. I am also integrating with cryptsy and Poloniex, just they sometimes have bigger delays in payouts.
How much volume did you generate? How much are you buying up in a day?
Bears holding beers saying cheers to Nxt
FIFY - great meme!
https://twitter.com/Nxtgids/status/447020783173648384
Ricky I would appreciate if you return the NXTcashoperatingfund to me because I decided to give this 1M NXT to a common fund the early adopters/big stakeholders committee will form (official announcement in the following hours) so it can be handled by the community for various projects (including anonymity features) - better to do it more officially rather than James handling the whole chunk, I am sure he will agree..
EDIT: The community should be aware that a big part of the early adopters will ONLY fund from now on in this way - the committee is made exactly for this reason, transparency, fairness and optimal management of resources (both ours and the community's).
Of course, if some insidious large NXT holders wanted to ensure your scenario, all they would have to do is offer a matching donation of NXT to the mining outputs.
I think just a % above to ensure highest ROI would do the trick, and be sustainable for the longest period. Then again, I might just be thinking this way because I'm already completely jealous of those of you who can mine in these NXT pools.
I dont like hearing about mining related to Nxt.But i just consider it automatizing a way of people buying Nxt with their resources.We should think if Nxt mining should be encouraged. If yes.. this idea is quite similar of what nodecoins was supposed to do,but in a different way.It would be a special giveout of some Nxt,as imo we are still in the IPO, although people dont see it this way.
PROPOSAL TO STIMULATE NXT MINING POOLS
A fund is created,with a certain amount of Nxt.For example a fund commitee creates and manages a Nxt account xxxxxxxxxxx, with 500.000 Nxt(any number).Also anyone can support it by donating money to that account.
All those Nxt will be distributed to everyone who has mined in a certain period,from April 1st to April 30th for example, in proportion to how much they have mined.That would be done by sending the Nxt to the pool owners,who can pay it accordingly,as all the workers and how much they mined is public info.
If you mined 0,1% of the total Nxt mined ,you would get 0,1% of the added Nxt too.
This would increase the ROI for mining here,making these pools the most profitable(by far depending on how much is donated), and bringing a lot of people to Nxt> Lots of miners> more Nxt bought every day>buy pressure> price increases. It would also put Nxt in everyones mouth and bring hype.
I have no idea how much people can this bring,but if it did success in introducing Nxt to a lot of people,the increase in the price could be significant.
Some people may think its unfair to subsidize this,but it is a private project,and could be a nice way to let initial stakeholders give out some Nxt, that could be distributed to hundreds(i hope thousands) of persons.
For anyone who has been into poker,this would be like a Rake race.It brings players to a poker room,and make them play as much hands as they can competing between them,because the more you rake you generate,the bigger the prize you will get,although in this case the payout would be lineal.
If we can optimize how many Nxt to giveout,we would bring the most competitive miners in the world to Nxt.And this doesnt punish small miners in any way(their ROI is never reduced).And even if many of them sell their Nxt after, they could never sell more than what they have generated and has been bought by the pools,so it cant be EV- in the long term.
Ive created this thread to discuss.
https://nextcoin.org/index.php/topic,4487.0.html
If you sibsidize the pool to make it the most profitable you have to consider the likely scenario in which those droves of pump and dump selfish miners come by for the free lunch then just sell all the nxt to btc on their way out the door.
even if they wanted to dump it all, the pool would be able to buy most if it back. I have been doing most of the NXT buys for the pool on BTER, that's why the volume is so up. I am also integrating with cryptsy and Poloniex, just they sometimes have bigger delays in payouts.
I put some thoughts in my post about that.500k was to say any number,it could be whatever.It should be a % increase of what we stimate could be mined.
I know a dump would happen,but that dump can never be bigger than the new Nxt bought,so this cant have negative expected value.And of all those new miners,some will keep mining there, and some will keep the coins. So the objective of this, letting a lot of people know about nxt and build their opinion,would be achieved.
Who can create these "accounts"? How are they created? How are they implemented in the Nxt core?
Anyone will be able to create an AT (its creation is just going to be a "new type" of Nxt transaction).
It is likely we'll make it optional for forgers to "do" AT (at least for parallel chains) but for nodes that do they will need to "validate" an AT creation tx and then "execute" the machine code (and save the state as another "injected" tx).
Execution of each AT will be part of "verification" by all AT processing nodes (so nodes can't *cheat* with the *state* as those blocks will end up being rejected).
If you sibsidize the pool to make it the most profitable you have to consider the likely scenario in which those droves of pump and dump selfish miners come by for the free lunch then just sell all the nxt to btc on their way out the door.
Yeah, this is a good point. We don't want to create a fund of 500k nxt that is just going to end up dumped by miners with no loyalty to nxt. It seems like the mining scheme only works if miners hold the nxt. If nxt "mining' is more profitable than regular multipool mining, then we attract the vultures.
the pool will always be buying more NXT than would be given out as bonus
so even if the miners all dumped their NXT for cheap, the next buy cycle from the pool would buy it all right away (unless they are listing the price as higher than the lowest price, in which case the pool is doing it's job and also increasing NXT volume which is also it's job).
Ricky I would appreciate if you return the NXTcashoperatingfund to me because I decided to give this 1M NXT to a common fund the early adopters/big stakeholders committee will form (official announcement in the following hours) so it can be handled by the community for various projects (including anonymity features) - better to do it more officially rather than James handling the whole chunk, I am sure he will agree..
EDIT: The community should be aware that a big part of the early adopters will ONLY fund from now on in this way - the committee is made exactly for this reason, transparency, fairness and optimal management of resources (both ours and the community's).
Of course, if some insidious large NXT holders wanted to ensure your scenario, all they would have to do is offer a matching donation of NXT to the mining outputs.
I think just a % above to ensure highest ROI would do the trick, and be sustainable for the longest period. Then again, I might just be thinking this way because I'm already completely jealous of those of you who can mine in these NXT pools.
I dont like hearing about mining related to Nxt.But i just consider it automatizing a way of people buying Nxt with their resources.We should think if Nxt mining should be encouraged. If yes.. this idea is quite similar of what nodecoins was supposed to do,but in a different way.It would be a special giveout of some Nxt,as imo we are still in the IPO, although people dont see it this way.
PROPOSAL TO STIMULATE NXT MINING POOLS
A fund is created,with a certain amount of Nxt.For example a fund commitee creates and manages a Nxt account xxxxxxxxxxx, with 500.000 Nxt(any number).Also anyone can support it by donating money to that account.
All those Nxt will be distributed to everyone who has mined in a certain period,from April 1st to April 30th for example, in proportion to how much they have mined.That would be done by sending the Nxt to the pool owners,who can pay it accordingly,as all the workers and how much they mined is public info.
If you mined 0,1% of the total Nxt mined ,you would get 0,1% of the added Nxt too.
This would increase the ROI for mining here,making these pools the most profitable(by far depending on how much is donated), and bringing a lot of people to Nxt> Lots of miners> more Nxt bought every day>buy pressure> price increases. It would also put Nxt in everyones mouth and bring hype.
I have no idea how much people can this bring,but if it did success in introducing Nxt to a lot of people,the increase in the price could be significant.
Some people may think its unfair to subsidize this,but it is a private project,and could be a nice way to let initial stakeholders give out some Nxt, that could be distributed to hundreds(i hope thousands) of persons.
For anyone who has been into poker,this would be like a Rake race.It brings players to a poker room,and make them play as much hands as they can competing between them,because the more you rake you generate,the bigger the prize you will get,although in this case the payout would be lineal.
If we can optimize how many Nxt to giveout,we would bring the most competitive miners in the world to Nxt.And this doesnt punish small miners in any way(their ROI is never reduced).And even if many of them sell their Nxt after, they could never sell more than what they have generated and has been bought by the pools,so it cant be EV- in the long term.
Ive created this thread to discuss.
https://nextcoin.org/index.php/topic,4487.0.html
If you sibsidize the pool to make it the most profitable you have to consider the likely scenario in which those droves of pump and dump selfish miners come by for the free lunch then just sell all the nxt to btc on their way out the door.
even if they wanted to dump it all, the pool would be able to buy most if it back. I have been doing most of the NXT buys for the pool on BTER, that's why the volume is so up. I am also integrating with cryptsy and Poloniex, just they sometimes have bigger delays in payouts.
If you sibsidize the pool to make it the most profitable you have to consider the likely scenario in which those droves of pump and dump selfish miners come by for the free lunch then just sell all the nxt to btc on their way out the door.
Yeah, this is a good point. We don't want to create a fund of 500k nxt that is just going to end up dumped by miners with no loyalty to nxt. It seems like the mining scheme only works if miners hold the nxt. If nxt "mining' is more profitable than regular multipool mining, then we attract the vultures.
what is a panicsell on bter??
Is there a non-dev explanation of the whole AT thing?
You can think of it has "being able to write contracts" - an AT will have basically all the characteristics of an "account" (so can send AMs and trade Assets, etc.) *but* this account is a "program" rather than a human being.
Thus - if you can read its code (or get someone you trust to check that for you) it can act as a 3rd party which "can't cheat" (I imagine someone will end up offering a service to *validate* ATs and *insure* them in the future to make it easier for non-tech people to use them).
They are perfect for things like "atomic cross chain transfers" and for things like trading Assets for other Assets without the need for complicated external infrastructure or "trusted 3rd parties".
Hope that makes it a "little clearer".
Who can create these "accounts"? How are they created? How are they implemented in the Nxt core?
Who is working on the multi-sig transactions? Need to talk to him.
Thanks.
Thanks.
I work on multisig for Nxt.
If I can sell shares for my working hours, I am happy. Like a voucher for this: http://work4nxt.com
Personally I prefer "completed tasks" to hours (which is why I created CIYAM Open) - the problem with "hours" is that people can spend those just chatting or watching YouTube vidoes.
I envision that the way many of us ending working in the not too distant future is going to be much more like the CIYAM Open model (as it is far more efficient to "get results").
rofl. Nope, this is like Chinese, sorry 
(yeah, I know you live in China )
We need somethink like - with AT, you can pay sheep for the farmer in Bangladesh or a computer for the school in Zimbabwe
(yeah, I know you live in China )We need somethink like - with AT, you can pay sheep for the farmer in Bangladesh or a computer for the school in Zimbabwe
Fair enough then - with AT you can safely trade 1 Asset for another, with AT you can safely lock your savings away while earning interest and with AT you can buy a ticket every week in what will be arguably the world's most efficient lottery!
Holy COW! I just read two of your sentences without feeling dumb!
If I can sell shares for my working hours, I am happy. Like a voucher for this: http://work4nxt.com
Who is working on the multi-sig transactions? Need to talk to him.
Thanks.
Thanks.
Here is an update of todays payout on hashrate.org. I used the timestamps between payouts as the mining time. In 14h of mining between payouts I got 492 nxt. In one day this would give 843 NXT or 0.0555 BTC at current prices (cryptsy).
Factoring in my hashrate I end up with a profitability of: 0.00856 BTC/MH per day
For comparison traditional BTC multipool profitability of the last 24h:
- hashrate.org: 0.00856 BTC/MH
- clevermining: 0.00550 BTC/MH per day
- wafflepool: 0.00518 BTC/MH per day
Keep in mind that payouts on multipools vary greatly between days. I will stay on the pool and keep posting updates. So in the course of a week or two we should have a clearer picture. Anyways, the last payout was fantastic. Keep up the good work paradigmflux!
Factoring in my hashrate I end up with a profitability of: 0.00856 BTC/MH per day
For comparison traditional BTC multipool profitability of the last 24h:
- hashrate.org: 0.00856 BTC/MH
- clevermining: 0.00550 BTC/MH per day
- wafflepool: 0.00518 BTC/MH per day
Keep in mind that payouts on multipools vary greatly between days. I will stay on the pool and keep posting updates. So in the course of a week or two we should have a clearer picture. Anyways, the last payout was fantastic. Keep up the good work paradigmflux!
Is there a non-dev explanation of the whole AT thing?
You can think of it has "being able to write contracts" - an AT will have basically all the characteristics of an "account" (so can send AMs and trade Assets, etc.) *but* this account is a "program" rather than a human being.
Thus - if you can read its code (or get someone you trust to check that for you) it can act as a 3rd party which "can't cheat".
Perfect for things like "atomic cross chain transfers" and for things like trading Assets for other Assets without the need for complicated external infrastructure or "trusted 3rd parties".
Hope that makes it a "little clearer".
rofl. Nope, this is like Chinese, sorry
(yeah, I know you live in China )We need somethink like - with AT, or AE? you can pay sheep for the farmer in Bangladesh or a computer for the school in Zimbabwe
Salsa, I think the AT explanation is that it is kind of like a vending machine that can do ANYTHING.
Imagine if there was OPEN market for Cans of Coca Cola/USD, if you needed to sell cans of coke, you dump 12 in the machine and it pays you $12. If you need 12 cokes, you stick in $12 and out they come. Not about the machine owner stocking it up. We can all sell and set the price on demand.
AND EACH OF THESE TRANSACTIONS takes out a forging fee!
There can be 1000s of ATs sitting there, each doing different , or variables of the same.
One is BTC/Nxt you send it Nxt, it sends you BTC. Done.
One is GOOG/GOLD you send it Google Assets if you own any, and it sends you Gold Assets. Done.
No one OWNS the AT.
rofl. Nope, this is like Chinese, sorry (yeah, I know you live in China )
We need somethink like - with AT, you can pay sheep for the farmer in Bangladesh or a computer for the school in Zimbabwe
(yeah, I know you live in China )We need somethink like - with AT, you can pay sheep for the farmer in Bangladesh or a computer for the school in Zimbabwe
Fair enough then - with AT you can safely trade 1 Asset for another, with AT you can safely lock your savings away while earning interest and with AT you can buy a ticket every week in what will be arguably the world's most efficient lottery!
We on the MC need to put all our energy into making such great videos as this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZW-oUXqomT0#t=211
THIS is the BENCHMARK
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZW-oUXqomT0#t=211
THIS is the BENCHMARK
Is there a non-dev explanation of the whole AT thing?
You can think of it has "being able to write contracts" - an AT will have basically all the characteristics of an "account" (so can send AMs and trade Assets, etc.) *but* this account is a "program" rather than a human being.
Thus - if you can read its code (or get someone you trust to check that for you) it can act as a 3rd party which "can't cheat".
Perfect for things like "atomic cross chain transfers" and for things like trading Assets for other Assets without the need for complicated external infrastructure or "trusted 3rd parties".
Hope that makes it a "little clearer".
rofl. Nope, this is like Chinese, sorry
(yeah, I know you live in China )We need somethink like - with AT, or AE? you can pay sheep for the farmer in Bangladesh or a computer for the school in Zimbabwe
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