NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information - page 2465.

SpeedDemon13

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Quote from: BitThink on December 04, 2013, 04:17:44 AM

Quote from: SpeedDemon13 on December 04, 2013, 04:09:38 AM

Quote from: MikeH on December 04, 2013, 04:03:34 AM

Quote from: SpeedDemon13 on December 04, 2013, 03:59:49 AM

That would be a turn off if buying NXT is required to start mining.

Yea people mentioning it on the 5th page of posts - odd that it wasn't brought up before then.

Sounds so ponzi/pyramid scheme-ish. It's cool that on NXT only $0.015 right now, but do I buy it from http://www.dgex.com/index.htm to get it started or can someone just simply send me one and I send it back immediately? The main selling point for me is it the non-requirement of traditional mining hardware (ie. GPU, ASIC and FPGA) and the PoS.

It's not PoS mining at all. All coins exist in the beginning, and PoS mining just gets the tiny amount (almost 0 now) of transaction fees. More than 90% of transactions have no transaction fee at all and you are super lucky to mine a block with tx fee 1 nxt even if you have 10M nxt. So forget about mining.

If your correct, then there's really no point for me to even give this a try. Thought that the transaction fees created more, but I need more transparent information about NXT. This coin is so clouded at the moment.

bizz

hero member

Activity: 492

Merit: 500

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: crazybonkers on December 03, 2013, 10:52:24 PM

While its a bit quiet here I thought I would send an idea I have been working on regarding a Nxt coin graphic for the shareholders to see.
I will not be precious over this design. If you like it and would like to see some changes, I will be happy to make the changes.

Also if there is an official Nxt coin design thread, I apologize for posting it here.

Crazybonkers

I like it. Nice job!

+1!

BitThink

legendary

Activity: 882

Merit: 1000

Quote from: SpeedDemon13 on December 04, 2013, 04:09:38 AM

Quote from: MikeH on December 04, 2013, 04:03:34 AM

Quote from: SpeedDemon13 on December 04, 2013, 03:59:49 AM

That would be a turn off if buying NXT is required to start mining.

Yea people mentioning it on the 5th page of posts - odd that it wasn't brought up before then.

Sounds so ponzi/pyramid scheme-ish. It's cool that on NXT only $0.015 right now, but do I buy it from http://www.dgex.com/index.htm to get it started or can someone just simply send me one and I send it back immediately? The main selling point for me is it the non-requirement of traditional mining hardware (ie. GPU, ASIC and FPGA) and the PoS.

It's not PoS mining at all. All coins exist in the beginning, and PoS mining just gets the tiny amount (almost 0 now) of transaction fees. More than 90% of transactions have no transaction fee at all and you are super lucky to mine a block with tx fee 1 nxt even if you have 10M nxt. So forget about mining.

SpeedDemon13

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Quote from: MikeH on December 04, 2013, 04:03:34 AM

Quote from: SpeedDemon13 on December 04, 2013, 03:59:49 AM

That would be a turn off if buying NXT is required to start mining.

Yea people mentioning it on the 5th page of posts - odd that it wasn't brought up before then.

Sounds so ponzi/pyramid scheme-ish. It's cool that on NXT only $0.015 right now, but do I buy it from http://www.dgex.com/index.htm to get it started or can someone just simply send me one and I send it back immediately? The main selling point for me is it the non-requirement of traditional mining hardware (ie. GPU, ASIC and FPGA) and the PoS.

MikeH

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 250

Quote from: SpeedDemon13 on December 04, 2013, 03:59:49 AM

That would be a turn off if buying NXT is required to start mining.

Yea people mentioning it on the 5th page of posts - odd that it wasn't brought up before then.

Come-from-Beyond

legendary

Activity: 2142

Merit: 1010

Newbie

Quote from: mcjavar on December 04, 2013, 03:49:03 AM

But this won´t solve the issue that arise when someone already holds a lot of coins and is not spending them, just "proofing" and earning new coins. How to make sure, that one person can´t hold the majority of the coins?

The market will find equilibrium point, don't worry

SpeedDemon13

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Quote from: MikeH on December 04, 2013, 03:50:01 AM

you need to update the first post, like to say you need at least 1 Nxt to mine Nxt - are you supposed to buy your first one or what? seems dodgy.

That would be a turn off if buying NXT is required to start mining.

SpeedDemon13

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Quote from: laowai80 on December 04, 2013, 03:45:07 AM

Quote from: ImmortAlex on December 04, 2013, 03:43:53 AM

Think they are exists forever. Like Earth, and Sun, and starts in the night sky.

Ok, and what does this sentence mean from the first post?

"Coins are earned solely by charging transaction fees."

How is this exactly initiated? Because, I'm still at zero NXT for the past hour or so.

MikeH

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 250

you need to update the first post, like to say you need at least 1 Nxt to mine Nxt - are you supposed to buy your first one or what? seems dodgy.

mcjavar

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 500

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on December 04, 2013, 03:38:43 AM

Quote from: mcjavar on December 04, 2013, 02:42:32 AM

I´ve read a very interesting post which I would like to share with you.

"I think everyone here will agree that NXT is an interesting concept - and I think that implementing it first in Java was a great choice for getting more developers on board. However, I think there is a seriously problem with NXT, and indeed proof-of-stake in general: that of pooled mining.

As with all modern decentralized crypto-currencies, an even spread of influence is desirable: Bitcoin would hardly work if all of the hashing power belonged to one group. Similarly with a proof-of-stake currency, the total wealth needs to be spread across many real world owners, each with small balances, for the system to work.

Small influence leads to small block solving power and so less steady mining returns. Bitcoin solves this through pooled mining. Pooled mining in Bitcoin is particularly elegant since very little trust is required between the pool operator and the owner of the hashing power. Can we do the same in NXT? Solving blocks in NXT requires signing them with an account private key, a good balance and considerable luck. Thus, pooled mining in NXT requires either;

handing over the private key to the pool, without the pool owner running off with the account funds;
trusting the signer to pay back the pool if the get lucky;
or some clever crypto to guarantee one of the above

At present, none of these options are both desirable and possible. So with this in mind, how will NXT work at all?"

What do you think about this?

I got a message of BCNext regarding this. He is thinking about changing the mining algo, a new approach will used Cunicula's proposal to assign a unique id to each coin. If this way is not flawed then we'll get trustless pooled mining. There are no details yet, the concept may be changed.

That sounds good!!

But this won´t solve the issue that arise when someone already holds a lot of coins and is not spending them, just "proofing" and earning new coins. How to make sure, that one person can´t hold the majority of the coins?

laowai80

member

Activity: 98

Merit: 10

Quote from: ImmortAlex on December 04, 2013, 03:43:53 AM

Think they are exists forever. Like Earth, and Sun, and starts in the night sky.

Ok, and what does this sentence mean from the first post?

"Coins are earned solely by charging transaction fees."

ImmortAlex

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 501

Quote from: laowai80 on December 04, 2013, 03:42:46 AM

So, can you explain to me real quick. Are all 1 bln. coins already mined?

Think they are exists forever. Like Earth, and Sun, and starts in the night sky.

laowai80

member

Activity: 98

Merit: 10

So, can you explain to me real quick. Are all 1 bln. coins already mined?

mcjavar

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 500

Quote from: Vega on December 04, 2013, 03:21:51 AM

Quote from: mcjavar on December 04, 2013, 02:42:32 AM

I´ve read a very interesting post which I would like to share with you.

"I think everyone here will agree that NXT is an interesting concept - and I think that implementing it first in Java was a great choice for getting more developers on board. However, I think there is a seriously problem with NXT, and indeed proof-of-stake in general: that of pooled mining.

I've been wondering about this for a while now. I think this is one of the problems than needs to be addressed soon, if not in implementation, in theory at least.

The option to handing over large amount of currency to a person who runs a pool is not realistic, safe, or efficient. (However it's interesting in case of exchanges and such, because they can make profit with your coins, so fees should be lower.)

The best solution would be if there would be a pool mining (proofing?) mechanism integrated into Nxt itself. A way to sign over the mining rights of coins to a collective while maintaining ownership over the coins.

Well, for me seems, that without this function, there is no point using it and the mass will not adopt at as they are suspicious with "pre mined" coins, even if this is a new technology. They need to get motivated to use the currency and "proof", to earn coins. Currently, with 100-2000 coins it is pointless to "proof" and it is not possible to get more then that coins for free. Dumping coins for free, on the other hand, will result in a price drop, which is also against the interest of the shareholders...

Come-from-Beyond

legendary

Activity: 2142

Merit: 1010

Newbie

Quote from: mcjavar on December 04, 2013, 02:42:32 AM

I´ve read a very interesting post which I would like to share with you.

"I think everyone here will agree that NXT is an interesting concept - and I think that implementing it first in Java was a great choice for getting more developers on board. However, I think there is a seriously problem with NXT, and indeed proof-of-stake in general: that of pooled mining.

As with all modern decentralized crypto-currencies, an even spread of influence is desirable: Bitcoin would hardly work if all of the hashing power belonged to one group. Similarly with a proof-of-stake currency, the total wealth needs to be spread across many real world owners, each with small balances, for the system to work.

Small influence leads to small block solving power and so less steady mining returns. Bitcoin solves this through pooled mining. Pooled mining in Bitcoin is particularly elegant since very little trust is required between the pool operator and the owner of the hashing power. Can we do the same in NXT? Solving blocks in NXT requires signing them with an account private key, a good balance and considerable luck. Thus, pooled mining in NXT requires either;

handing over the private key to the pool, without the pool owner running off with the account funds;
trusting the signer to pay back the pool if the get lucky;
or some clever crypto to guarantee one of the above

At present, none of these options are both desirable and possible. So with this in mind, how will NXT work at all?"

What do you think about this?

I got a message of BCNext regarding this. He is thinking about changing the mining algo, a new approach will used Cunicula's proposal to assign a unique id to each coin. If this way is not flawed then we'll get trustless pooled mining. There are no details yet, the concept may be changed.

Come-from-Beyond

legendary

Activity: 2142

Merit: 1010

Newbie

Quote from: Pouncer on December 04, 2013, 12:22:11 AM

Feedback: Ver: 0.3.7
Got this error and application stops running normally.
Physical memory used 139M, with plenty of free RAM left.

Code:

2013-12-03 22:52:36.691:WARN:oejs.ServletHandler:qtp12201544-22005: Error for /nxt
java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: Java heap space
2013-12-03 22:52:35.945:WARN:oejut.QueuedThreadPool:qtp12201544-22387:
java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: Java heap space
2013-12-03 22:53:00.473:WARN:oejut.QueuedThreadPool:qtp12201544-22399:
java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: Java heap space
2013-12-03 22:52:59.737:WARN:oejut.QueuedThreadPool:qtp12201544-22407:
java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: Java heap space
2013-12-03 22:53:04.970:WARN:oejut.QueuedThreadPool:qtp12201544-22418:
java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: Java heap space
2013-12-03 22:52:58.633:WARN:oejut.QueuedThreadPool:qtp12201544-22401:
java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: Java heap space
2013-12-03 22:52:57.891:WARN:oejut.QueuedThreadPool:qtp12201544-22415:
java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: Java heap space

Thank you. Have u used "-Xms512m" and "-Xmx1024m" BTW?

Come-from-Beyond

legendary

Activity: 2142

Merit: 1010

Newbie

Quote from: Jimmy2011 on December 03, 2013, 08:36:36 PM

Some feedback for you dev:

I got error and couldn't open "localhost:7875" for both 0.3.5 and 0.3.6 yesterday and now. This error is on win XP system, but I can run succesfully on my laptop Windows 7 system. So I'm wondering whether the client has some problems on Win XP system.

Code:

[2013-12-04 09:27:38.750] Loading assets...
[2013-12-04 09:27:38.750] ...Done
[2013-12-04 09:27:38.750] Loading orders...
[2013-12-04 09:27:38.750] ...Done
2013-12-04 09:27:38.985:INFO:oejsh.ContextHandler:main: Started o.e.j.w.WebAppCo
ntext@1fe7c2f{/,file:/F:/nxt-0.3.6/nxt/webapps/root/,AVAILABLE}{F:\nxt-0.3.6\nxt
\webapps\root}
2013-12-04 09:27:39.313:INFO:oejs.ServerConnector:main: Started ServerConnector@
a7041a{HTTP/1.1}{0.0.0.0:7874}
[2013-12-04 09:28:38.970] 7: java.io.IOException: 由于线程退出或应用程序请求，已
放弃 I/O 操作。

[2013-12-04 09:28:38.985] 8: java.io.IOException: 由于线程退出或应用程序请求，已
放弃 I/O 操作。

Thank you. Both exceptions happened in code that accepts connections (7 == client, 8 == bot). Unfortunatelly, I can't translate those funny symbols...

Vega

hero member

Activity: 739

Merit: 500

Quote from: mcjavar on December 04, 2013, 02:42:32 AM

I´ve read a very interesting post which I would like to share with you.

"I think everyone here will agree that NXT is an interesting concept - and I think that implementing it first in Java was a great choice for getting more developers on board. However, I think there is a seriously problem with NXT, and indeed proof-of-stake in general: that of pooled mining.

I've been wondering about this for a while now. I think this is one of the problems than needs to be addressed soon, if not in implementation, in theory at least.

The option to handing over large amount of currency to a person who runs a pool is not realistic, safe, or efficient. (However it's interesting in case of exchanges and such, because they can make profit with your coins, so fees should be lower.)

The best solution would be if there would be a pool mining (proofing?) mechanism integrated into Nxt itself. A way to sign over the mining rights of coins to a collective while maintaining ownership over the coins.

SpeedDemon13

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Still not completely understanding how to get NXT coins. I got it running, show the peers and blocks on the GUI on localhost:7875.

Code:

C:\Users\USER\Desktop\nxt>"C:\Program Files (x86)\Java\jre7\bin\java" -jar start.jar
2013-12-03 23:30:06.148:INFO:oejs.Server:main: jetty-9.1.0.v20131115
2013-12-03 23:30:06.187:INFO:oejdp.ScanningAppProvider:main: Deployment monitor [file:/C:/Users/USER/Desktop/nxt/webapps/] at interval 1
[2013-12-03 23:30:07.380] Nxt 0.3.7 started.
[2013-12-03 23:30:07.409] Loading transactions...
[2013-12-03 23:30:07.726] ...Done
[2013-12-03 23:30:07.727] Loading peers...
[2013-12-03 23:30:07.761] Loading blocks...
[2013-12-03 23:30:10.621] ...Done
[2013-12-03 23:30:10.622] Loading accounts...
[2013-12-03 23:30:10.716] ...Done
[2013-12-03 23:30:10.718] Loading assets...
[2013-12-03 23:30:10.720] ...Done
[2013-12-03 23:30:10.720] Loading orders...
[2013-12-03 23:30:10.722] ...Done
2013-12-03 23:30:10.743:INFO:oejsh.ContextHandler:main: Started o.e.j.w.WebAppContext@1fce83e{/,file:/C:/Users/USER/Desktop/nxt/webapps/root/,AVAILABLE}{C:\User
s\USER\Desktop\nxt\webapps\root}
2013-12-03 23:30:10.778:INFO:oejs.ServerConnector:main: Started ServerConnector@301ea4{HTTP/1.1}{0.0.0.0:7874}
[2013-12-03 23:38:55.129] 23: java.nio.channels.WritePendingException
[2013-12-03 23:39:16.551] 3: java.nio.channels.ClosedChannelException
[2013-12-03 23:40:05.535] 23: java.nio.channels.WritePendingException
[2013-12-03 23:40:09.644] 23: java.nio.channels.WritePendingException
[2013-12-03 23:40:17.960] 23: java.nio.channels.WritePendingException
[2013-12-03 23:41:33.293] 23: java.nio.channels.WritePendingException
[2013-12-03 23:41:58.285] 23: java.nio.channels.WritePendingException
[2013-12-03 23:42:11.311] 23: java.nio.channels.WritePendingException
[2013-12-03 23:42:25.538] 23: java.nio.channels.WritePendingException
[2013-12-03 23:44:28.572] 17: java.nio.channels.WritePendingException
[2013-12-03 23:45:27.370] 23: java.nio.channels.WritePendingException
[2013-12-03 23:45:27.370] 23: java.nio.channels.WritePendingException
[2013-12-03 23:45:39.445] 23: java.nio.channels.WritePendingException
[2013-12-03 23:45:57.188] 23: java.nio.channels.WritePendingException
[2013-12-03 23:46:42.985] 23: java.nio.channels.WritePendingException
[2013-12-03 23:46:53.106] 23: java.nio.channels.WritePendingException
[2013-12-03 23:47:05.347] 1: java.nio.channels.WritePendingException
[2013-12-03 23:47:05.349] 17: java.nio.channels.WritePendingException

Is everything working ok?

mcjavar

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 500

Quote from: abctc on December 04, 2013, 02:51:14 AM

Quote from: mcjavar on December 04, 2013, 02:42:32 AM

Bitcoin would hardly work if all of the hashing power belonged to one group. Similarly with a proof-of-stake currency ...

- no, PoS more safe then PoW, because big stakeholders aren't interested in attack on the currency.

But what if I have a lot of NXT and am nopt spending them, just holding them and "mining"? this means that I will have more and more NXT, which can lead to market distortion.

Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information - page 2465. (Read 2761638 times)