I wish Cunicula was here.
What happened to him? Just up and disappeared.
EDIT: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3687657
Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information - page 356. (Read 2761645 times)
What happened to him? Just up and disappeared.
EDIT: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3687657
Reference the recent discussion here on driving the transaction fee down from 1 NXT to 0.1 or 0.01 NXT. That is an increase in "supply" of trading fee tokens by a factor of X10 vs. X100. Where was the pressure to keep NXT transaction fees UP? Fees are just another word for tax, people hate taxes, there will always be pressure to drive taxes down. Would you rather trade 1,000,000 nodecoin for 1 BTC on AE if the NXT fee was 1 NXT = $1 bought at Cryptsy, or the NXT fee was 0.01 NXT = 1 cent bought at Cryptsy? What is the motivation / market pressure to keep NXT at $1 each instead of 1 cent?
I am starting to think that not only nodecoin but also AE itself is the enemy of keeping NXT as a store of value....
Ahh, I see your logic. You are concerned that if the value of nxt becomes nothing more than the ability to use AE, and that if we start reducing the transaction fee, then the value of nxt will be reduced in proportion with the transaction fee.
Let's use dividend paying stocks as an analogy. Transaction fees are the dividends paid to shareholders (holders of nxt). More transactions equals more transaction fees equals more dividends. The value of nxt is a function of the future stream of dividend payments. But currently, the transaction fees are fixed at 1 unit of nxt. Therefore as nxt price increases, transaction fees increase, making us not very competitive with bitstamp or mastercoin or whoever is in the exchange market. I do believe that this circular mechanism restricts the upside on the price of 1 nxt.
I also agree with you that changing the transaction fee arbitrarily downwards is a bad idea, as going to .01 nxt would cause a 99% decline in the value of nxt (in this simple example where AE drives 100% of the value of nxt). Alternatively, if we denominate the transaction fee in AE as a % of the value being exchanged, then we can compete with other exchanges directly and without having to constantly recalibrate our fees when nxt price changes.
this makes sense
I wish Cunicula was here.
Reference the recent discussion here on driving the transaction fee down from 1 NXT to 0.1 or 0.01 NXT. That is an increase in "supply" of trading fee tokens by a factor of X10 vs. X100. Where was the pressure to keep NXT transaction fees UP? Fees are just another word for tax, people hate taxes, there will always be pressure to drive taxes down. Would you rather trade 1,000,000 nodecoin for 1 BTC on AE if the NXT fee was 1 NXT = $1 bought at Cryptsy, or the NXT fee was 0.01 NXT = 1 cent bought at Cryptsy? What is the motivation / market pressure to keep NXT at $1 each instead of 1 cent?
I am starting to think that not only nodecoin but also AE itself is the enemy of keeping NXT as a store of value....
Ahh, I see your logic. You are concerned that if the value of nxt becomes nothing more than the ability to use AE, and that if we start reducing the transaction fee, then the value of nxt will be reduced in proportion with the transaction fee.
Let's use dividend paying stocks as an analogy. Transaction fees are the dividends paid to shareholders (holders of nxt). More transactions equals more transaction fees equals more dividends. The value of nxt is a function of the future stream of dividend payments. But currently, the transaction fees are fixed at 1 unit of nxt. Therefore as nxt price increases, transaction fees increase, making us not very competitive with bitstamp or mastercoin or whoever is in the exchange market. I do believe that this circular mechanism restricts the upside on the price of 1 nxt.
I also agree with you that changing the transaction fee arbitrarily downwards is a bad idea, as going to .01 nxt would cause a 99% decline in the value of nxt (in this simple example where AE drives 100% of the value of nxt). Alternatively, if we denominate the transaction fee in AE as a % of the value being exchanged, then we can compete with other exchanges directly and without having to constantly recalibrate our fees when nxt price changes.
Nodecoin is not a clear cut issue. It seems more want to see where this goes than not. James, release the hounds. I hope you make a lot of money on it.
nodecoin is a nonprofit coin, meant for supporting NXT network, just looking to cover costs with minimal feesMy for profit coins are still in development.
BCNext said something in the early days, I remember it being something like: "If you are not a developer, don't invest in Nxt". Gulp. I am not a coder (the last "code" I wrote would be something like: IF 10="YES" GOTO 1024". 
But I do develop. IMO, we still need to develop ideas and turn them into reality, to give Nxt more value.
Yes, I am going to have EVERY shop in my street take Nxt (coin) as payment, but hell, why should it matter to customers, whether it's Nxt, Bitcoin or any altcoin they use as payment? Why Nxt? Because people will have them.
They will own Nxt because of our services. Businesses on top.
I think many are waiting for core features to be finished, so they can step in. It might be confusing to follow Nxt right now, because our community is decentralized. I'm not used to that. I'm still learning how to feel comfortable with it. But I like it. I don't panic, if nothing new is announced every day. But it shouldn't overwhelm us and stop us from creating, ourselves. I don't plan to trade 1 single Nxt for fiat - EVER. I'm going to spend it inside our system.
People will "buy" Nxt / use it through AE, AM or a Nxt Parallel Chain, when they use our services - so these services (or "companies") have to fill a need out there. In functionality. In coolness factor. Fun. Or fuck-the-system-we-are-the-99%-and-we-are-bloody-anonymous-factor.
We can pretend that we are a 1. gen. crypto. But it's a lie. We are Nxt.
But I do develop. IMO, we still need to develop ideas and turn them into reality, to give Nxt more value. Yes, I am going to have EVERY shop in my street take Nxt (coin) as payment, but hell, why should it matter to customers, whether it's Nxt, Bitcoin or any altcoin they use as payment? Why Nxt? Because people will have them.
They will own Nxt because of our services. Businesses on top.
I think many are waiting for core features to be finished, so they can step in. It might be confusing to follow Nxt right now, because our community is decentralized. I'm not used to that. I'm still learning how to feel comfortable with it. But I like it. I don't panic, if nothing new is announced every day. But it shouldn't overwhelm us and stop us from creating, ourselves. I don't plan to trade 1 single Nxt for fiat - EVER. I'm going to spend it inside our system.
People will "buy" Nxt / use it through AE, AM or a Nxt Parallel Chain, when they use our services - so these services (or "companies") have to fill a need out there. In functionality. In coolness factor. Fun. Or fuck-the-system-we-are-the-99%-and-we-are-bloody-anonymous-factor.
We can pretend that we are a 1. gen. crypto. But it's a lie. We are Nxt.
We have a mind-blowing revolutionary tool at our hands, and the question is not how to get people interested, but how to bring them value. I don't get it, many seem to sit on their hands waiting for others to work. If we create interesting Nxt services, that serves a purpose, people will use them. We discuss a lot how to promote Nxt. IMO we have to create stuff to promote. That's what James is doing. It's hard to say what will become of Nodecoin. It's an asset. It's a badge in the hat of Nxters running nodes. It may become an asset actually traded as a coin. A reward. Or not. Time will tell. I like the idea, and I like that it adds some sort of gamification. Release it, please.
Nodecoin is not a clear cut issue. It seems more want to see where this goes than not. James, release the hounds. I hope you make a lot of money on it.
As far as I know James does not care much about money. He's got a nice IRL income... he doesn't really require more than that. He has enough to comfortably use his brain.
Nodecoin is not a clear cut issue. It seems more want to see where this goes than not. James, release the hounds. I hope you make a lot of money on it.
I still say outline for me the path money takes from being created as nodecoin to paying for a server via Paypal. Or Bitcoin. Because NXT is still an infant.
I don't understand what you mean - why doesn't this from my earlier post provide a funding path
If the number of nodes in the network needs to be stimulated / maintained.
Create an order for node coins on the AE at a price people think it worth it...
People will run nodes to generate node coins to fill the order and redeem the coins for NXT
If people can get NXT then they can decide what to do with it...
I dont understand why the 'infant' means this can't be NXT and should be paypal or bitcoin...
the work is 'reward' not 'pay'... if they can't 'pay their bills' they shouldn't be running a node in the first place...
if we need to continue to pay for nodes directly then we need to do that not use node coin for that.
Nxt on a major dump? please enlighten sb who doesnt have the time to check the megathread often.
what the holy rick is going on? nodecoins? nxt at 0.00006255? Hello?
thank u
what the holy rick is going on? nodecoins? nxt at 0.00006255? Hello?
thank u
Two whales dumping part of their coins.
Even the biggest account is joining in on Bter with 1,3 million
Nodecoin will not allow you to circumvent Nxt fees, it's not built into core. It's just an asset that you get for running a node, very simple. People will have to run Nxt client to get Nodecoin, so I have no idea why this would be perceived as bad for Nxt. Nodecoin should be redeemable for accessing services (DAC, NxtCash, whatever), not for Nxt itself. I don't see anyone trading Nxt for Nodecoin. It gives us a good testcase for AE coins. Thank you James. Now let's help James with DAC, NxtCash, the good stuff!
Pls someone answer. If in some time,we had lots of nodes supporting the network,could we just get rid of nodecoins??Or would they be part of Nxt in their most basic structure???
Once issued, nodecoins will exist for 27 years as they are given out 100 per block.nodecoins are NOT part of NXT core. It is not part of NXT basic structure.
It is simply an asset I created using NXT core.
anybody can do this
Clearly NXT is a very disruptive tech. It can disrupt itself!
There are literally more than 47 to the 10th power of potential assets that can be created. That a lot of assets. nodecoin is just one asset.
Still think nodecoin does not add value to NXT? Just the discussion it has created has now gotten a bunch of people thinking about how they can create their own coin and issue it on AE. Dont deny it, I know you are. I charge 2% of coins as they are mined, if you need my help.
James
Jesus. We will have our own little coin market cap war inside NXT. It's a recursive fight to the death. I thought AE would just be a way to trade coins peer-to-peer and avoid transaction fees altogether. As soon as you devalue NXT to be the transaction fee token instead of a 1st gen coin, it is automatically devalued to be less than the coins being traded on it. This coin will self-destruct in five seconds...
Could this problem of devaluation get solved increassing the necessary fee to pay in nxt according to the value of the nodecoins in order to mantain a demand of nxt?
I mean, if everyone want to use nodecoin but in order to use them he have to pay 5nxt in fee, we can mantain the demand of nxt high enought to not devaluate it
Obviously this shouldn't be applied to all assets, I'm not coder and don't know if this can be done...
Maybe so stupid what I'm saying? It's late and the day was long
Pls someone answer. If in some time,we had lots of nodes supporting the network,could we just get rid of nodecoins??Or would they be part of Nxt in their most basic structure???
Once issued, nodecoins will exist for 27 years as they are given out 100 per block.nodecoins are NOT part of NXT core. It is not part of NXT basic structure.
It is simply an asset I created using NXT core.
anybody can do this
Clearly NXT is a very disruptive tech. It can disrupt itself!
There are literally more than 47 to the 10th power of potential assets that can be created. That a lot of assets. nodecoin is just one asset.
Still think nodecoin does not add value to NXT? Just the discussion it has created has now gotten a bunch of people thinking about how they can create their own coin and issue it on AE. Dont deny it, I know you are. I charge 2% of coins as they are mined, if you need my help.
James
Jesus. We will have our own little coin market cap war inside NXT. It's a recursive fight to the death. I thought AE would just be a way to trade coins peer-to-peer and avoid transaction fees altogether. As soon as you devalue NXT to be the transaction fee token instead of a 1st gen coin, it is automatically devalued to be less than the coins being traded on it. This coin will self-destruct in five seconds...
i claim the NXT market cap will correlate with the SUM of the value of all the assets in AE. I provide as evidence, XRP market cap, which has done exactly that. At least as a rough approx, as big surge in December corresponded to big influx in CNY and subsequent decay in gradual exodus of assets out of ripple network.
Like it or not, AE makes NXT a similar animal as XRP. I have first hand experience with ripple and how it has fluctuated. I used to be an active market maker there, until the total fiat inside ripple drained away. I am not an economist, but when I see 70% of assets disappear and market value drops by 70%, well I was able to put two and two together.
What is your evidence of NXT destruction?
How exactly did you envision creating an economy using NXT by by building on top of NXT?
What is an economy? Isnt it people trading stuff with each other? Having a coinmarketcap war inside of NXT will bring a lot of activity and new blood into NXT. It will spawn the need for charting services, automated bot services, market makers, etc. Not exactly the joe-sixpack demographic, but in crypto land we know this is the group that provides liquidity.
I believe that I understand a lot of nuances about all this. If you have any evidence to support your theory that having active trading market of assets is totally destructive to NXT, please post. Otherwise you are just yelling "fire" in a movie theater, when there is no fire.
James
Nxt on a major dump? please enlighten sb who doesnt have the time to check the megathread often.
what the holy rick is going on? nodecoins? nxt at 0.00006255? Hello?
thank u
what the holy rick is going on? nodecoins? nxt at 0.00006255? Hello?
thank u
It doesn't make sense to write what you call an ultralight client then.
Why would you not implement this yourself in a client and have a trustless solution?
THESE 2. JLP, can you add an option to allow NRS to only process certain API requests from localhost?
Jesus. We will have our own little coin market cap war inside NXT. It's a recursive fight to the death. I thought AE would just be a way to trade coins peer-to-peer and avoid transaction fees altogether. As soon as you devalue NXT to be the transaction fee token instead of a 1st gen coin, it is automatically devalued to be less than the coins being traded on it. This coin will self-destruct in five seconds...
Ricky - if you look at AE in isolation - maybe yes...
But AE is not / will not be all we have.
Why should people just use AE coins? and if they do - so what...
If NXT doesn't allow these traceable items to be made,,,, ripple, counterparty, eXO, etherium, mastercoin, NEM, nick nack paddy whack and who knows what other coins will come along with AE type capabilities....
We need to give people reasons to use NXT as a primary coin, not prevent them from doing something with NXT....
Coins, assets services- everything created on top of NXT strengthens it. Like some have said, NXT is an ecosystem. Do you want to rely on us just being a transfer of value? Just a currency unit? If so, then we have already lost. It is what is built on top of what we already have is what will make NXT come out on top. We have an innovative platform to work with that enables all of these great things. And people want to bitch when the innovation starts to happen. Good grief.
If we have 10000 people mining nodecoin from their Windows taskbar that is 10000 people involved in NXT that weren't involved before. Thats 10000 new nodes. Thats 10000 people that were not making transactions in NXT before. If nodecoin ultimately fails we lose nothing. But if it succeeds we gain many new users that we would not have had. People who can become familiar with what NXT ECOSYSTEM truly is..
Pls someone answer. If in some time,we had lots of nodes supporting the network,could we just get rid of nodecoins??Or would they be part of Nxt in their most basic structure???
Once issued, nodecoins will exist for 27 years as they are given out 100 per block.nodecoins are NOT part of NXT core. It is not part of NXT basic structure.
It is simply an asset I created using NXT core.
anybody can do this
Clearly NXT is a very disruptive tech. It can disrupt itself!
There are literally more than 47 to the 10th power of potential assets that can be created. That a lot of assets. nodecoin is just one asset.
Still think nodecoin does not add value to NXT? Just the discussion it has created has now gotten a bunch of people thinking about how they can create their own coin and issue it on AE. Dont deny it, I know you are. I charge 2% of coins as they are mined, if you need my help.
James
Jesus. We will have our own little coin market cap war inside NXT. It's a recursive fight to the death. I thought AE would just be a way to trade coins peer-to-peer and avoid transaction fees altogether. As soon as you devalue NXT to be the transaction fee token instead of a 1st gen coin, it is automatically devalued to be less than the coins being traded on it. This coin will self-destruct in five seconds...
But all of these coins competing with each other are generating fees in NXT to forgers...
As time goes on, the value of NXT will only grow as more and more services and coins are built ontop of it generate more and more fees (thus increasing the incentive for people to buy and hold their stake).
It is a temporary solution I see nodecoin as. James made it to solve our forging problem that has been discussed a million times. Nodecoins would definitely solve short term
forging issues until we have thousands of businesses supporting the network for their own sakes. But nodecoin must be traded in for a fixed amount of Nxt like a points system.
James of course should be rewarded well by one of the committees if this is approved
OK, there's 525,600 minutes in a year. Say everybody gets 5 nodecoins per block. That's 2.6 million node coins per year. If their value under a "points" system is 0.01 NXT (completely arbitrary, who knows what the market price would be), that's the same as creating a new stash of 26,000 NXT per year - that's an inflation rate of 0.0000026%. At the current nickel per NXT, that's $1300 per year raised for servers. If NXT goes up by a factor of 10, that's $13K per year.
Let me just say, if NXT goes up by a factor of 10, there are PLENTY of stakeholders here (me included) that would pay a voluntary "donation" / tax of 0.0000026% to support the computer network that made it happen.
this is my point. This to me is an infrastructure committee bounty. And again James should be compensated well if we can implement this. Again this is temporary. Nxt needs to
pay for this support because it is an infant.
I still say outline for me the path money takes from being created as nodecoin to paying for a server via Paypal. Or Bitcoin. Because NXT is still an infant.
Jump to: