NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information - page 660.

CIYAM

legendary

Activity: 1890

Merit: 1086

Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

Quote from: bitcoinpaul on February 26, 2014, 10:58:30 AM

I believe in another thread (flaw thread) we came to the conclusion that it is important to have many accounts for modeling. 10 could be too few.

It could be - so at the moment I am focusing on some more "worst-case scenarios".

Once I am happy with the stats we are getting from those simulations then I will move to what are perhaps "more realistic scenarios".

redsn0w

legendary

Activity: 1778

Merit: 1043

#Free market

Now the value of 1 Nxt is : 0.00009180 BTC .. mhhhh Roll Eyes

brooklynbtc

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 250

AKA jefdiesel

Quote from: msin on February 26, 2014, 10:45:08 AM

Quote from: gmoneycoin on February 26, 2014, 10:39:26 AM

Quote from: wesleyh on February 26, 2014, 05:01:39 AM

Just talked to bittrex, they have only 86 signups from nxt at the moment..

You should all go and sign up.

Quote

Go to https://bittrex.com/Account/Register and use SUPPORT_NXT as the invite code. This gets you past the invite code queue. Place some trades, enabled 2FA, or try any of our other features to help us stress the site before the final launch. If you find a bug, we're handing out bug bounties as well. Having a great exchange helps us but also helps the NXT community.

Done. Testing trading some DOGE until they add NXT. Grin

Received this from Bittrex, please don't bother signing up any more until we have clarification they can add Nxt.

"Sigh, we just hit a huge technical hurdle that is going to delay this; I'm not sure we have an easy way around this without doing a lot of core engine restructuring which is super scary.

I will keep you updated "

I've asked them for more specifics.

These exchange kids are just desperate for new users. trying to add more coins to add more users to skim off their %
They are not in it for the community, and have no idea how to do anything but add a scrypt coin. They are just as bad as all the new coins.

The exchanges are important for the price, but NXT is still worth so much more than the reflected price on BTER. All the scam coins and pump and dumps are hoping to get on the exchanges to sell out. We need to be patient.

bitcoinpaul

hero member

Activity: 910

Merit: 1000

Quote from: opticalcarrier on February 26, 2014, 10:33:53 AM

Quote from: bitcoinpaul on February 26, 2014, 05:20:07 AM

I don't get your idea, or I get it. I don't know.

Instead of leasing forge power, you commit with your account to share fees among others in the same "share fee group" if you forge a node. You still try to forge a block on your own, but you commit to share the incentive with others if you are successful (with special conditions like committing to run the node for some time, ...). Could this be done with AT and would that make sense?

there really isnt much point in this mechanism. what you are describing is basically a rube goldberg contraption that produces the exact result of current NXT account/network forging

The idea is that all forgers repeatedly get small incentives for trying to forge. It is a pure psychological reason.

In the end, the fee distribution is the same.

bitcoinpaul

hero member

Activity: 910

Merit: 1000

Quote from: CIYAM on February 26, 2014, 10:33:20 AM

I have increased the number of accounts and changed some other things to head towards a better idea but basically it should be possible to "scale down" the numbers without greatly affecting the results at all (of course scaling down to just 2 or 3 accounts is not a good idea).

I believe in another thread (flaw thread) we came to the conclusion that it is important to have many accounts for modeling. 10 could be too few.

bitcoinpaul

hero member

Activity: 910

Merit: 1000

Quote from: rickyjames on February 26, 2014, 10:28:48 AM

tion to keep this ball rolling. We should ask the Cryptsy folks to document what was required to get NXT plugged into their system. Then we should turn right around to allwelder or some of the other Chinese NXT members and see that this info from Cryptsy gets communicated to BTX38.com in China. We need to be on both of these exchanges as soon as possible. It is the only way we are going to get exposure to a new pool of capital to buy NXT and get our exchange volume back up.

Good idea. Give them some bounty for it.

brooklynbtc

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 250

AKA jefdiesel

Quote from: klee on February 26, 2014, 08:18:37 AM

Quote from: pinarello on February 26, 2014, 08:13:57 AM

Quote from: mcjavar on February 26, 2014, 08:10:35 AM

Quote from: pinarello on February 26, 2014, 07:57:35 AM

Quote from: abuelau on February 26, 2014, 07:54:46 AM

Quote from: pinarello on February 26, 2014, 07:52:04 AM

Greed could be the fatal flaw, if that 50M accounts persist to hoard we are all doomed, simply because that accounts don’t need a higher price to sell, they get rich anyway, no matter what the price is.

I wish we could shot them accounts down coz they only make us look bad and people who own them are from the greediest people ever seen, they hurt nxt and will destroy it.

How rich do you want to be 1M, 10M, 50M, it’s just disgusting when you think of it.

Honestly: I couldn’t care less if NXT was worth 0, just for the fun them accounts have also 0.

Who knows, maybe a good clone will outlive NXT and them 50M accounts if they don’t start spreading the wealth.

Let's send some arbitrary messages to those accounts asking them to help out!

We already did. I think they dont even know how it works and they don't even give a damn how it works to.

Well...treat them like lostNxts (blackNxt, deadNxt or whatever they are called now).
Maybe the owner of the account already died. Or is on coma and doen´t care about it. I am pretty sure that they´d already sold some of them if they were alive

My fear is that some are second or third accounts and the whales dont even have the time to sell + there is not enough volume on the market to sell.

They can start PMing people from here who are active and faithful to NXT and offer them bulk quantities in discount prices!

If I had 100M nxt I would probably do this for at least 20-30M nxt.

And no one needs to know it (to affect the market).

Well that would be very nice. I'm a small fish, but wouldnt mind a "stock option price"

igmaca

full member

Activity: 168

Merit: 100

Quote from: opticalcarrier on February 26, 2014, 10:33:53 AM

Quote from: bitcoinpaul on February 26, 2014, 05:20:07 AM

I don't get your idea, or I get it. I don't know.

Instead of leasing forge power, you commit with your account to share fees among others in the same "share fee group" if you forge a node. You still try to forge a block on your own, but you commit to share the incentive with others if you are successful (with special conditions like committing to run the node for some time, ...). Could this be done with AT and would that make sense?

there really isnt much point in this mechanism. what you are describing is basically a rube goldberg contraption that produces the exact result of current NXT account/network forging

not exactly see you in maths

leasing forging power of a account to another account to create pools

1.000.000.000 Nxt Coin
100.000 Nxt Coin per pool

John account 90.000 Nxt 0 Node participate in forging
Mary account 9.900 Nxt 0 Node participate in forging
Bob account 100 Nxt 0 Node participate in forging

Total pool 100.000 Nxt 1 Node paticipate in forging
Total 1 Node participate in forging

Chance to forge 0,0001
rate forging 1440 blocs per day
52,6 Blocs per year
aprox 1 Bloc per week

1.000.000.000 Nxt Coin
100.000 Nxt Coin per pool
10.000 Node participate in forging

share fee group

1.000.000.000 Nxt Coin
100.000 Nxt Coin per pool (share fee group)

John account 90.000 Nxt 1 Node participate in forging
Mary account 9.900 Nxt 1 Node participate in forging
Bob account 100 Nxt 1 Node participate in forging

Total pool (share fee group) 100.000 Nxt
Total Nodes 3 Node participate in forging

Chance to forge 0,0001
rate forging 1440 blocs per day
52,6 Blocs per year
aprox 1 Bloc per week

1.000.000.000 Nxt Coin
100.000 Nxt Coin per pool (share fee group)
30.000 Nodes participate in forging. if there are only three accounts linked per pool (share fee group)

I am wrong?

I suppose 30,000 nodes are sufficient to ensure the network

Now imagine if I am correct with 1,000,000 Nxt coins pools (share fee group)

1.000.000.000 Nxt Coin
1.000.000 Nxt Coin per pool (share fee group)

10 accounts 90.000 Nxt 10 Node participate in forging
10 accounts 9.900 Nxt 10 Node participate in forging
10 accounts 100 Nxt 10 Node participate in forging

Total pool (share fee group) 1.000.000 Nxt
Total 30 Nodes participate in forging

Chance to forge 0,001
rate forging 1440 blocs per day
526 Blocs per year
aprox 1,44 Blocs per day. 100 Nxt account is forging every day. receives fees in proportion to their funds every day!!!

1.000.000.000 Nxt Coin
1.000.000 Nxt Coin per pool (share fee group)
30.000 Nodes participate in forging. if there are only 30 accounts linked per pool (share fee group)

this means;

Extremely decentralized network (in the exemple 30.000 Nodes) Small accounts motivated to participate in forging (In the exemple 100 Nxt account is forging every day)
You just have to solve for the fees to be sufficiently attractive.

An interesting idea is to pay for other things like leased computing power
Other interesting idea is to pay for other things like leased memory storage capacity

msin

legendary

Activity: 1470

Merit: 1004

Quote from: gmoneycoin on February 26, 2014, 10:39:26 AM

Quote from: wesleyh on February 26, 2014, 05:01:39 AM

Just talked to bittrex, they have only 86 signups from nxt at the moment..

You should all go and sign up.

Quote

Go to https://bittrex.com/Account/Register and use SUPPORT_NXT as the invite code. This gets you past the invite code queue. Place some trades, enabled 2FA, or try any of our other features to help us stress the site before the final launch. If you find a bug, we're handing out bug bounties as well. Having a great exchange helps us but also helps the NXT community.

Done. Testing trading some DOGE until they add NXT. Grin

Received this from Bittrex, please don't bother signing up any more until we have clarification they can add Nxt.

"Sigh, we just hit a huge technical hurdle that is going to delay this; I'm not sure we have an easy way around this without doing a lot of core engine restructuring which is super scary.

I will keep you updated "

I've asked them for more specifics.

redsn0w

legendary

Activity: 1778

Merit: 1043

#Free market

Someone wants a bit of TestNxt ??

gmoneycoin

newbie

Activity: 12

Merit: 0

Quote from: wesleyh on February 26, 2014, 05:01:39 AM

Just talked to bittrex, they have only 86 signups from nxt at the moment..

You should all go and sign up.

Quote

Go to https://bittrex.com/Account/Register and use SUPPORT_NXT as the invite code. This gets you past the invite code queue. Place some trades, enabled 2FA, or try any of our other features to help us stress the site before the final launch. If you find a bug, we're handing out bug bounties as well. Having a great exchange helps us but also helps the NXT community.

Done. Testing trading some DOGE until they add NXT. Grin

opticalcarrier

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Quote from: starik69 on February 26, 2014, 06:26:48 AM

Very strange. On 0.8.xe versions after several hours my node always forks. That was not the case on 0.7.x. I usually forged >1 block a day but on 0.8 i got nothing Cry

Downgrading.

mine doesnt fork, but every few hours my 0.8.1e forging NRS node just hangs on a block and stops receiving new blocks. I upgraded to 0.8.2e, same thing.

All 25 of my nonforging public/hallmarked VPSs on 0.8.1e can keep the latest block though. ??

CIYAM

legendary

Activity: 1890

Merit: 1086

Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

Quote from: opticalcarrier on February 26, 2014, 10:27:32 AM

you know, im really embarassed to have to ask this question, but can you go into even more detail here? IM just not seeing it

In particular if your node is "behind" then you won't see that someone is now sending "blocks from the past" to you (if you did you might decide to ignore them) so they would have to be considered just as valid as any other versions of "blocks from the past" you are fed.

If you are being fed blocks from a "secret chain" that was not broadcast before then your node will simply decide based upon "total weight" which chain is better.

If the "secret" chain had "greater weight" then that will become your "main chain" and if that gets propagated across the network then "confirmations will be *undone*".

BloodyRookie

hero member

Activity: 687

Merit: 500

Quote from: opticalcarrier on February 26, 2014, 10:23:06 AM

Quote from: BloodyRookie on February 26, 2014, 03:53:14 AM

It doesn't double the chance to forge a block, but when you do forge a block, you will do it twice and thus, you are creating a fork.

This seems to be a serious attack possibility. what happens if a whale or pool operator goes rogue and starts forging from 100 different public VPSs?

I think CfB mentioned somewhere in this thread that accounts that do such evil things get punished in a future version of NRS.

Isildur23

full member

Activity: 178

Merit: 100

"This means that a person wishing to retain their wealth across what could be many decades of
biostasis might attempt do so by memorizing their access code and destroying any physical record of it –putting this wealth
out of circulation until their future revival with memories intact. Technical and legal questions abound, but the idea may give
fresh reason to doubt the phase “You can’t take it with you.” "
from http://brainpreservation.org/sites/default/files/PressRelease_OneMillionNXTCoinDonationToBPF.pdf

Nice! Lets spread it!

opticalcarrier

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Quote from: bitcoinpaul on February 26, 2014, 05:20:07 AM

I don't get your idea, or I get it. I don't know.

Instead of leasing forge power, you commit with your account to share fees among others in the same "share fee group" if you forge a node. You still try to forge a block on your own, but you commit to share the incentive with others if you are successful (with special conditions like committing to run the node for some time, ...). Could this be done with AT and would that make sense?

there really isnt much point in this mechanism. what you are describing is basically a rube goldberg contraption that produces the exact result of current NXT account/network forging

CIYAM

legendary

Activity: 1890

Merit: 1086

Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

Quote from: opticalcarrier on February 26, 2014, 10:26:37 AM

how many accounts are you running in each simulation instance? Just a few will not cut it and is not a good representation of how TF works in the wild. See the source code thread, I believe it was, for more info on this. You need to model as many accounts as possible, I would say at least 100 per simulation run.

I have increased the number of accounts and changed some other things to head towards a better idea but basically it should be possible to "scale down" the numbers without greatly affecting the results at all (of course scaling down to just 2 or 3 accounts is not a good idea).

cc001

full member

Activity: 164

Merit: 100