Author

Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information - page 681. (Read 2761645 times)

full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 100
what if we were to come to the forging issue from a different angle:

The problem as defined here is HOW to keep a small NXT holder (whose motivation is financial and not ideological) interested in maintaining the network?

Another problem (for some at least) was the holding size of larger stakeholders which means that the rich will get richer and the small guy will not make enough.

How do we tackle this? we need to find a solution that will consider both issues: give a chance to the low balance guy to make enough from forging and be motivated while also allowing a chance for a higher balance holder or pool to enjoy suitable returns. we also need enough machines... hence the pool idea.

We also need to remember that high balance individuals have a vesting interest that the network will prosper which means that their equity is worth more. so the motivation there is not only forging rights.

------------------------

The conceptual solution is to create a completely random, lottery like, naturally decentralized algorithm that will assign fees randomly per transaction to any 1NXT in the system without consideration to any holder's NXT balance

Naturally- if you have more NXT you will gravitate toward having better chances to win the transaction fee

However, if you are a low balance guy you KNOW that you can win more fees than your relative holding size.

This will both provide motivation to the low balance holders that at any given moment can win a larger fee than the relative size of their account, and they will stay on and open for that extra chance---  while also take care (statistically) of the higher balance people but from a decentralized perspective- i.e. the system wouldnt care who has more NXT because it will randomly divide fees between all NXT in the system, 1 fraction at a time and not in any particular order-- which will allow for someone to win more than his "natural" share at any given time

Maybe the system can also be programmed to automatically reduce/increase fees above/below  a given number of transactions per hour or 24 hours to naturally attract more forging if number of network points decline. However, When there are enough transactions in the system and the network is both lucrative and stable everyone will be happy.

Dont know if this is at all possible and maybe this is nonsense........... but conceptually it seems to be solving issues for all stakeholders by catering to both needs  
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
We need to focus. I need to focus. Thoughts.



BCNext's idea was, speaking of forging incentives, to get rid of transaction fees. The idea is that companies, who use Nxt (as a platform, as their payment provider, as what ever), earn money with their services, and thereby have an interest in running nxt nodes to provide stability for it.

But BCNext doesn't live in fairy land (well, sometimes he does, i think) and knows that thousands of companies will not get built on top of nxt or use nxt right now but in the future. First, we need to provide a stable and secure network to (potential new) businesses before they use it. That's why the first plan is building Nxt as a currency to get a wide adoption. I don't think we are there yet. Only because we know the 2nd plan doesn't mean we have to jump on it. Or should we? And, of course, trust no one, we don't need to follow his ideas, yada yada yada. Well, he is a smart guy. Let's think about it:

We need fees right now to have an incentive for forging (and maybe a better fees structure, like the hallmark idea) and we don't know for how long. But we should also get rid of fees to make it possible for companies to use Nxt. This chicken and egg problem can only be solved with a gradually decrease of fees and give Nxt a kickstart with paid infrastructure for the next months (years, we don't know). Or is there another solution?

If this is correct, we should talk about how we will come to a consensus about decreasing fees in the future. And our infrastructure committee (not in place yet) should go to work on nerdy things for stability, 1000TPS, .. as soon as possible.

Also, how do we prevent spamming when there are no fees? Maybe we should have different fees on different parallel blockchains.



Penalties. At least it was part of BCNext's idea that we should penalize accounts who don't forge. I don't see a problem here as long as we talk about proper penalty. Not allowed to forge for the next 1440 blocks seems fair.



I want to know where I'm wrong and I want to hear CfB on both topics.

Pump. CfB has no answer.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5361024
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1086
Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer
Now, let me think how (within this model) the bad guy grows a fork of depth 2...

Great - we are all very keen to see the results!
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 500

Thanks! reading it now and looking good as usual.

-----

And just a thought I wanted to leave here. With the last debacle in MtGox, twitter is seething with references to P2P, decentralized exchanges. I'm seeing links to http://www.coinffeine.com/ all the time. We have a wave to ride there now. I understand people is upset with mintpal (a damn fine exchange site, imo) and any swarm efforts are good and getting into new exchanges is always good and all, but right now it does not seem a priority when we have assets of our own, pun intended, that will return much more.

Regarding implementation of asset exchange, new tests and developments, what news do we have to show? Statements, screenshots, articles... we should keep producing materials around it. Translate for the crowd the progress being made. Other than "tests keep coming nicely and neurons keep sparking" what can we show? We have a great momentum out there.

I think we should try to get off BTC and start trading Nxt for FIAT. If the price of BTC goes down, so goes the price of Nxt, although the whole MtGox-stor has nothing to do with Nxt.

Get asset exchange online and working and both the fiat price and the link between Nxt and gox will stop being a concern.

AE is only a tool, not a gateway.

Correct. Excuse the wording. I was just discussing with someone the gateway james has in progress and I could see their hard-on.

I am also in discussion about a gateway, but I am still looking for someone to cooperate with.
sr. member
Activity: 376
Merit: 300
OK, but, if we want to be able to calculate probabilities, there must be a good math model of how these weights can be simulated (i.e., something like this: "one can assume that weights of accounts are independent Exponential random variables with expectations equal (or proportional?) to their balances"). Without such a model, it would be difficult to proceed...

So for each account we take the first 8 bytes of an SHA256 hash of the "previous block sig + your account #" to get a "base target" (so an unpredictable 8 byte value that changes with every block). We then multiply this by your account's balance and the time (in seconds) since the last block to come up with your "current target".

There is also a "minimum target" value set in order to prevent spam (i.e. we don't want the network clogged up with people broadcasting "losing tickets"). This value is not overly important so I wouldn't worry too much about including it in the model (or just pretend it is a constant maybe).

Note that the time multiplication is really just to "widen" everyone's chance so that it won't take more than 60 seconds for "someone" to have a "current target" > "minimum target" and then broadcast their block.

When considering what is a "better block" time would be removed from the equation (so best "block target" is always the "base target" multiplied by "account balance") so the whole "time" thing could be left out of the model (just want you to be clear how the system works).

OK, so, let's assume that you take a collection of i.i.d. Uniform random variables in {0,...,2⁶⁴-1}, multiply them to account balances, and get the base targets this way (I'm assuming that we are already in "1 block per minute" regime; also, one can take i.i.d. Uniforms(0,1) instead, since it's just scaling).

Now, let me think how (within this model) the bad guy grows a fork of depth 2...
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
How I can stop the server 0.8.x safely?
pkill -9 java? :S





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jw-E3gCl1b4  Kiss <3


Code:
 kill -9 #ID PROCESS

#ID PROCESS = top .. and search on java process , take the id of the process and type it in the shell.

I wouldnt use the -9 unless it just refused to die.  I think just regular kill allows nxt to properly close the DB before quitting.  the -9 may make DB puke on itself

ETA:  apparently the signal required is 15, so use kill -15 javaprocessID
sr. member
Activity: 460
Merit: 250

Thanks! reading it now and looking good as usual.

-----

And just a thought I wanted to leave here. With the last debacle in MtGox, twitter is seething with references to P2P, decentralized exchanges. I'm seeing links to http://www.coinffeine.com/ all the time. We have a wave to ride there now. I understand people is upset with mintpal (a damn fine exchange site, imo) and any swarm efforts are good and getting into new exchanges is always good and all, but right now it does not seem a priority when we have assets of our own, pun intended, that will return much more.

Regarding implementation of asset exchange, new tests and developments, what news do we have to show? Statements, screenshots, articles... we should keep producing materials around it. Translate for the crowd the progress being made. Other than "tests keep coming nicely and neurons keep sparking" what can we show? We have a great momentum out there.

I think we should try to get off BTC and start trading Nxt for FIAT. If the price of BTC goes down, so goes the price of Nxt, although the whole MtGox-stor has nothing to do with Nxt.

Get asset exchange online and working and both the fiat price and the link between Nxt and gox will stop being a concern.

AE is only a tool, not a gateway.

Correct. Excuse the wording. I was just discussing with someone the gateway james has in progress and I could see their hard-on.
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
I seem to have some config param missing in my raspi - when I start 0.8.1e using:       java -Xmx128M -Xmx480M -cp nxt.jar:lib/*:conf nxt.Nxt

 most of the startup process incl. starting blockachin seems to go well, but it crashes when launching the ui server:


[2014-02-25 10:05:15.203] shareMyAddress is disabled, will not start peer networking server
[2014-02-25 10:05:15.289] nxt.allowedBotHosts = "127.0.0.1; localhost; 192.168.178:25; 192.168.178.26; 0:0:0:0:0:0:0:1;"
[2014-02-25 10:05:15.300] nxt.enableAPIServer = "true"
[2014-02-25 10:05:15.304] nxt.apiServerPort = "7876"
[2014-02-25 10:05:15.312] nxt.apiServerHost = "127.0.0.1"
[2014-02-25 10:05:15.701] nxt.apiSSL = "false"
[2014-02-25 10:05:15.976] nxt.apiServerIdleTimeout = "30000"
[2014-02-25 10:05:16.002] nxt.apiResourceBase = "html/tools"
[2014-02-25 10:05:16.318] nxt.javadocResourceBase = "html/doc"
[2014-02-25 10:05:16.727] nxt.apiServerCORS = "false"
[2014-02-25 10:05:16.814] nxt.allowedUserHosts = "127.0.0.1; localhost; 0:0:0:0:0:0:0:1;"
[2014-02-25 10:05:16.820] nxt.enableUIServer = "true"
[2014-02-25 10:05:16.825] nxt.uiServerPort = "7875"
[2014-02-25 10:05:16.833] nxt.uiServerHost = "127.0.0.1; 0.0.0.0"
[2014-02-25 10:05:16.838] nxt.uiSSL = "false"
[2014-02-25 10:05:16.846] nxt.uiServerIdleTimeout = "30000"
[2014-02-25 10:05:16.851] nxt.uiResourceBase = "html/nrs"
[2014-02-25 10:05:16.857] nxt.javadocResourceBase = "html/doc"
[2014-02-25 10:05:16.870] nxt.uiServerCORS = "false"
[2014-02-25 10:05:17.123] Genesis block already in database
[2014-02-25 10:05:17.129] Scanning blockchain...
[2014-02-25 10:05:30.649] ...done
[2014-02-25 10:05:31.182] Started API server at 127.0.0.1:7876
[2014-02-25 10:05:31.306] DEBUG: Failed to start user interface server


However, on my regular workstation 0.8.1e starts without trouble:

[2014-02-25 09:34:35.931] Genesis block already in database
[2014-02-25 09:34:35.931] Scanning blockchain...
[2014-02-25 09:34:47.923] ...done
[2014-02-25 09:34:48.063] Started peer networking server at 0.0.0.0:7874
[2014-02-25 09:34:48.066] Started API server at 127.0.0.1:7876
[2014-02-25 09:34:48.095] Started user interface server at 127.0.0.1:7875
[2014-02-25 09:34:48.098] Nxt server 0.8.1e started successfully.
[2014-02-25 09:41:59.910] nxt.apiServerEnforcePOST = "false"



What setting did I miss?


the console gives a stacktrace:


java.net.SocketException: Unresolved address
   at sun.nio.ch.Net.translateToSocketException(Net.java:157)
   at sun.nio.ch.Net.translateException(Net.java:183)
   at sun.nio.ch.Net.translateException(Net.java:189)
   at sun.nio.ch.ServerSocketAdaptor.bind(ServerSocketAdaptor.java:76)
   at org.eclipse.jetty.server.ServerConnector.open(ServerConnector.java:279)
   at org.eclipse.jetty.server.AbstractNetworkConnector.doStart(AbstractNetworkConnector.java:80)
   at org.eclipse.jetty.server.ServerConnector.doStart(ServerConnector.java:218)
   at org.eclipse.jetty.util.component.AbstractLifeCycle.start(AbstractLifeCycle.java:69)
   at org.eclipse.jetty.server.Server.doStart(Server.java:336)
   at org.eclipse.jetty.util.component.AbstractLifeCycle.start(AbstractLifeCycle.java:69)
   at nxt.user.Users$1.run(Users.java:153)
   at nxt.util.ThreadPool.start(ThreadPool.java:38)
   at nxt.Nxt$Init.(Nxt.java:187)
   at nxt.Nxt.init(Nxt.java:156)
   at nxt.Nxt.main(Nxt.java:147)
Caused by: java.nio.channels.UnresolvedAddressException
   at sun.nio.ch.Net.checkAddress(Net.java:127)
   at sun.nio.ch.ServerSocketChannelImpl.bind(ServerSocketChannelImpl.java:208)
   at sun.nio.ch.ServerSocketAdaptor.bind(ServerSocketAdaptor.java:74)
   ... 11 more


nxt.allowedBotHosts = "127.0.0.1; localhost; 192.168.178:25; 192.168.178.26; 0:0:0

get rid of thta :25?
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 500

Thanks! reading it now and looking good as usual.

-----

And just a thought I wanted to leave here. With the last debacle in MtGox, twitter is seething with references to P2P, decentralized exchanges. I'm seeing links to http://www.coinffeine.com/ all the time. We have a wave to ride there now. I understand people is upset with mintpal (a damn fine exchange site, imo) and any swarm efforts are good and getting into new exchanges is always good and all, but right now it does not seem a priority when we have assets of our own, pun intended, that will return much more.

Regarding implementation of asset exchange, new tests and developments, what news do we have to show? Statements, screenshots, articles... we should keep producing materials around it. Translate for the crowd the progress being made. Other than "tests keep coming nicely and neurons keep sparking" what can we show? We have a great momentum out there.

I think we should try to get off BTC and start trading Nxt for FIAT. If the price of BTC goes down, so goes the price of Nxt, although the whole MtGox-stor has nothing to do with Nxt.

Get asset exchange online and working and both the fiat price and the link between Nxt and gox will stop being a concern.

AE is only a tool, not a gateway.
hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 1000
We need to focus. I need to focus. Thoughts.



BCNext's idea was, speaking of forging incentives, to get rid of transaction fees. The idea is that companies, who use Nxt (as a platform, as their payment provider, as what ever), earn money with their services, and thereby have an interest in running nxt nodes to provide stability for it.

But BCNext doesn't live in fairy land (well, sometimes he does, i think) and knows that thousands of companies will not get built on top of nxt or use nxt right now but in the future. First, we need to provide a stable and secure network to (potential new) businesses before they use it. That's why the first plan is building Nxt as a currency to get a wide adoption. I don't think we are there yet. Only because we know the 2nd plan doesn't mean we have to jump on it. Or should we? And, of course, trust no one, we don't need to follow his ideas, yada yada yada. Well, he is a smart guy. Let's think about it:

We need fees right now to have an incentive for forging (and maybe a better fees structure, like the hallmark idea) and we don't know for how long. But we should also get rid of fees to make it possible for companies to use Nxt. This chicken and egg problem can only be solved with a gradually decrease of fees and give Nxt a kickstart with paid infrastructure for the next months (years, we don't know). Or is there another solution?

If this is correct, we should talk about how we will come to a consensus about decreasing fees in the future. And our infrastructure committee (not in place yet) should go to work on nerdy things for stability, 1000TPS, .. as soon as possible.

Also, how do we prevent spamming when there are no fees? Maybe we should have different fees on different parallel blockchains.



Penalties. At least it was part of BCNext's idea that we should penalize accounts who don't forge. I don't see a problem here as long as we talk about proper penalty. Not allowed to forge for the next 1440 blocks seems fair.



I want to know where I'm wrong and I want to hear CfB on both topics.

Pump. CfB has no answer.
sr. member
Activity: 460
Merit: 250

Thanks! reading it now and looking good as usual.

-----

And just a thought I wanted to leave here. With the last debacle in MtGox, twitter is seething with references to P2P, decentralized exchanges. I'm seeing links to http://www.coinffeine.com/ all the time. We have a wave to ride there now. I understand people is upset with mintpal (a damn fine exchange site, imo) and any swarm efforts are good and getting into new exchanges is always good and all, but right now it does not seem a priority when we have assets of our own, pun intended, that will return much more.

Regarding implementation of asset exchange, new tests and developments, what news do we have to show? Statements, screenshots, articles... we should keep producing materials around it. Translate for the crowd the progress being made. Other than "tests keep coming nicely and neurons keep sparking" what can we show? We have a great momentum out there.

I think we should try to get off BTC and start trading Nxt for FIAT. If the price of BTC goes down, so goes the price of Nxt, although the whole MtGox-stor has nothing to do with Nxt.

Get asset exchange online and working and both the fiat price and the link between Nxt and gox will stop being a concern.
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
Quote
If you enable SSL, you need to set nxt.keyStorePath and nxt.keyStorePassword, and obviously you need to have your own SSL certificate (self-signed or signed by a CA) in a keystore file.

How i can make a self-signed certificate? Some guide step to step?

look in wiki under howto guides
newbie
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
Am I forging right? I bought a BTC worth of NXT a few days ago, so I have around 11.5k. All I have to do is leave on my NXT client (NRS 0.7.6) and forging will happen by itself? The past few pages have been talking about how to change up forging to be more profitable... but my question is, how do I check on the progress of my forging?

Thanks! And happy NXTing!
If you account is unlocked, your forging!  Smiley

Thanks for the confirmation! Yes my account is unlocked (you mean literally an unlocked picture at the top left of the client right? I also viewed the video explaining NXT but I am still confused about the Two Arrows, Globe, Puzzle Piece, and Person Picture (@ the top middle section of the client). Do one of these four sections tell me my forging progress?

And what's the point of the globe? Why do I want to look at my peers?
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
Power forged for account and node maximum  100000 Nxt

Accounts with more than 100000 Nxt if they want to forge gradually will be divided into fractions Nxt 100000

accounts with less than 100000 Nxt will share their rights fees in pools. If bob account forge his fees will go into the pool.
Bob would receive a fraction fees as a function of the nxt he had.

The network in the worst case would reach 10 000 nodes

1000000000/100000 = 10000 Nodes

Translated into numbers

if a block has 256 transactions
and 1440 blocks are generated each day

a pool with 100000 nxt generated 52.6 blocks per year
if a Nxt equals 1 Dollar
Blocks 52.6 x 256 = 13,455 dollar per year


in the worst case nearly every week 256 dollar received a pool (grouping of accounts) with 100000 nxt

Bob would receive a fraction fees as a function of the nxt he had in the pool.

if for example the pool is formed by 256 equal  accounts each account will receive 1 dollar per week

Do not forget that you have also mantein your PC if you usually use for other things.

The 256 dollars are to maintain only your actives nodes per week

chances of forging only depends on the nxt you have

This solution at least provoke everyone who wants to forge receive fees every 2-3 days maximum one week.

This at least solves that small accounts are equally motivated to forge that big.

my thoughts are wrong?
What are you talking about? Nodes to secure the network OR accounts that are forging. 2 different things

I propose that the account in its node forge

Only to the pool is transferred rights fees
legendary
Activity: 1205
Merit: 1000
Am I forging right? I bought a BTC worth of NXT a few days ago, so I have around 11.5k. All I have to do is leave on my NXT client (NRS 0.7.6) and forging will happen by itself? The past few pages have been talking about how to change up forging to be more profitable... but my question is, how do I check on the progress of my forging?

Thanks! And happy NXTing!
If you account is unlocked, your forging!  Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1205
Merit: 1000
Power forged for account and node maximum  100000 Nxt

Accounts with more than 100000 Nxt if they want to forge gradually will be divided into fractions Nxt 100000

accounts with less than 100000 Nxt will share their rights fees in pools. If bob account forge his fees will go into the pool.
Bob would receive a fraction fees as a function of the nxt he had.

The network in the worst case would reach 10 000 nodes

1000000000/100000 = 10000 Nodes

Translated into numbers

if a block has 256 transactions
and 1440 blocks are generated each day

a pool with 100000 nxt generated 52.6 blocks per year
if a Nxt equals 1 Dollar
Blocks 52.6 x 256 = 13,455 dollar per year


in the worst case nearly every week 256 dollar received a pool (grouping of accounts) with 100000 nxt

Bob would receive a fraction fees as a function of the nxt he had in the pool.

if for example the pool is formed by 256 equal  accounts each account will receive 1 dollar per week

Do not forget that you have also mantein your PC if you usually use for other things.

The 256 dollars are to maintain only your actives nodes per week

chances of forging only depends on the nxt you have

This solution at least provoke everyone who wants to forge receive fees every 2-3 days maximum one week.

This at least solves that small accounts are equally motivated to forge that big.

my thoughts are wrong?
What are you talking about? Nodes to secure the network OR accounts that are forging. 2 different things
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1005
Other cryptocurrency wallets believed to have been vulnerable to Pony theft are:

Anoncoin   BBQcoin   Bytecoin   Craftcoin   Devcoin   Digitalcoin
Fastcoin   Feathercoin   Florincoin   Franko   Freicoin   GoldCoin
I0coin   Infinitecoin   Ixcoin   Junkcoin   Litecoin   Luckycoin
Mincoin   Namecoin   NovaCoin   Phoenixcoin   PPCoin   Primecoin
Quarkcoin   Tagcoin   Terracoin   Worldcoin   Yacoin   Zetacoin
 

Nice not to see NXT here Smiley

What's a Pony theft?

Trojan
hero member
Activity: 715
Merit: 500
finally with get ride of Mt Gox!
https://www.mtgox.com/
legendary
Activity: 1120
Merit: 1000
Other cryptocurrency wallets believed to have been vulnerable to Pony theft are:

Anoncoin   BBQcoin   Bytecoin   Craftcoin   Devcoin   Digitalcoin
Fastcoin   Feathercoin   Florincoin   Franko   Freicoin   GoldCoin
I0coin   Infinitecoin   Ixcoin   Junkcoin   Litecoin   Luckycoin
Mincoin   Namecoin   NovaCoin   Phoenixcoin   PPCoin   Primecoin
Quarkcoin   Tagcoin   Terracoin   Worldcoin   Yacoin   Zetacoin
 

Nice not to see NXT here Smiley

What's a Pony theft?
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1005
Other cryptocurrency wallets believed to have been vulnerable to Pony theft are:

Anoncoin   BBQcoin   Bytecoin   Craftcoin   Devcoin   Digitalcoin
Fastcoin   Feathercoin   Florincoin   Franko   Freicoin   GoldCoin
I0coin   Infinitecoin   Ixcoin   Junkcoin   Litecoin   Luckycoin
Mincoin   Namecoin   NovaCoin   Phoenixcoin   PPCoin   Primecoin
Quarkcoin   Tagcoin   Terracoin   Worldcoin   Yacoin   Zetacoin
 

Nice not to see NXT here Smiley
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