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Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information - page 682. (Read 2761645 times)

hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 500
I think we should try to get off BTC and start trading Nxt for FIAT. If the price of BTC goes down, so goes the price of Nxt, although the whole MtGox-stor has nothing to do with Nxt.

Sure it does. Bitcoin is crypto currency, so is Nxt. If bitcoin goes down and dies, good luck in convincing people again that this idea has any worth.  

If bitcoin goes to zero, i will bet most govts will declare crypto illegal, probably a felony, in the name of "protecting" consumers.
hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 1000
trust no one.
newbie
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
Am I forging right? I bought a BTC worth of NXT a few days ago, so I have around 11.5k. All I have to do is leave on my NXT client (NRS 0.7.6) and forging will happen by itself? The past few pages have been talking about how to change up forging to be more profitable... but my question is, how do I check on the progress of my forging?

Thanks! And happy NXTing!
legendary
Activity: 1778
Merit: 1043
#Free market
Did you see this ?

Quotes : NXT/BTC: 0.00008746 | BTC/USD: 521.46    Angry
hero member
Activity: 715
Merit: 500
We need to focus. I need to focus. Thoughts.



BCNext's idea was, speaking of forging incentives, to get rid of transaction fees. The idea is that companies, who use Nxt (as a platform, as their payment provider, as what ever), earn money with their services, and thereby have an interest in running nxt nodes to provide stability for it.

But BCNext doesn't live in fairy land (well, sometimes he does, i think) and knows that thousands of companies will not get built on top of nxt or use nxt right now but in the future. First, we need to provide a stable and secure network to (potential new) businesses before they use it. That's why the first plan is building Nxt as a currency to get a wide adoption. I don't think we are there yet. Only because we know the 2nd plan doesn't mean we have to jump on it. Or should we? And, of course, trust no one, we don't need to follow his ideas, yada yada yada. Well, he is a smart guy. Let's think about it:

We need fees right now to have an incentive for forging (and maybe a better fees structure, like the hallmark idea) and we don't know for how long. But we should also get rid of fees to make it possible for companies to use Nxt. This chicken and egg problem can only be solved with a gradually decrease of fees and give Nxt a kickstart with paid infrastructure for the next months (years, we don't know). Or is there another solution?

If this is correct, we should talk about how we will come to a consensus about decreasing fees in the future. And our infrastructure committee (not in place yet) should go to work on nerdy things for stability, 1000TPS, .. as soon as possible.

Also, how do we prevent spamming when there are no fees? Maybe we should have different fees on different parallel blockchains.



Penalties. At least it was part of BCNext's idea that we should penalize accounts who don't forge. I don't see a problem here as long as we talk about proper penalty. Not allowed to forge for the next 1440 blocks seems fair.



I want to know where I'm wrong and I want to hear CfB on both topics.

I don't know if u wrong or not. Smiley

Let put some coin miner on top of NXT network, I believe enough computers will be online maintaining the NXT network with that. If you want loyal miner, you have to made a PoW scheme that is scientifically useful, like primecoin, riecoin or gridcoin.

One simple easy idea if possible, for a start, would be to combine primecoin and riecoin algorithm in one PoW coin. Odd BLOCK is on primecoin algo, Even BLOCK is on riecoin algo. People that like science would like to contribute evenly to both prime number research.

Personnaly, I don't think NXT can have much sucess as a first gen currency, bitcoin is there for that. I would focus on second gen feature.

hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 500
any opinions on skycoin? scam? it looks legit sorta to me but not very well supported??

link?
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1004
any opinions on skycoin? scam? it looks legit sorta to me but not very well supported??

I believe this is the Nxt thread last time I checked.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 500

Thanks! reading it now and looking good as usual.

-----

And just a thought I wanted to leave here. With the last debacle in MtGox, twitter is seething with references to P2P, decentralized exchanges. I'm seeing links to http://www.coinffeine.com/ all the time. We have a wave to ride there now. I understand people is upset with mintpal (a damn fine exchange site, imo) and any swarm efforts are good and getting into new exchanges is always good and all, but right now it does not seem a priority when we have assets of our own, pun intended, that will return much more.

Regarding implementation of asset exchange, new tests and developments, what news do we have to show? Statements, screenshots, articles... we should keep producing materials around it. Translate for the crowd the progress being made. Other than "tests keep coming nicely and neurons keep sparking" what can we show? We have a great momentum out there.

I think we should try to get off BTC and start trading Nxt for FIAT. If the price of BTC goes down, so goes the price of Nxt, although the whole MtGox-stor has nothing to do with Nxt.
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1086
Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer
It's the sum of 1/targets.

Yes - just checked with CfB it is the sum of 1 / "block target" for all blocks (although for the modelling purposes the sum of "block target" values would be fine as the use of fractions here is presumably just to deal with numerical limits).

hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 1000
We have a wave to ride there now.

...


We have a great momentum out there.

+1
hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 1000
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
☕ NXT-4BTE-8Y4K-CDS2-6TB82
How the "weight of the blockchain" is defined? Do you just add the weights of all blocks? Or, say, last k blocks? Can it be a weighted sum?

The weight is simply the sum of each "block target" in the chain (as far as I am aware - will reply again if I've got anything wrong).

It's the sum of 1/targets.
sr. member
Activity: 460
Merit: 250

Thanks! reading it now and looking good as usual.

-----

And just a thought I wanted to leave here. With the last debacle in MtGox, twitter is seething with references to P2P, decentralized exchanges. I'm seeing links to http://www.coinffeine.com/ all the time. We have a wave to ride there now. I understand people is upset with mintpal (a damn fine exchange site, imo) and any swarm efforts are good and getting into new exchanges is always good and all, but right now it does not seem a priority when we have assets of our own, pun intended, that will return much more.

Regarding implementation of asset exchange, new tests and developments, what news do we have to show? Statements, screenshots, articles... we should keep producing materials around it. Translate for the crowd the progress being made. Other than "tests keep coming nicely and neurons keep sparking" what can we show? We have a great momentum out there.
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1086
Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer
OK, but, if we want to be able to calculate probabilities, there must be a good math model of how these weights can be simulated (i.e., something like this: "one can assume that weights of accounts are independent Exponential random variables with expectations equal (or proportional?) to their balances"). Without such a model, it would be difficult to proceed...

So for each account we take the first 8 bytes of an SHA256 hash of the "previous block sig + your account #" to get a "base target" (so an unpredictable 8 byte value that changes with every block). We then multiply this by your account's balance and the time (in seconds) since the last block to come up with your "current target".

There is also a "minimum target" value set in order to prevent spam (i.e. we don't want the network clogged up with people broadcasting "losing tickets"). This value is not overly important so I wouldn't worry too much about including it in the model (or just pretend it is a constant maybe).

Note that the time multiplication is really just to "widen" everyone's chance so that it won't take more than 60 seconds for "someone" to have a "current target" > "minimum target" and then broadcast their block.

When considering what is a "better block" time would be removed from the equation (so best "block target" is always the "base target" multiplied by "account balance") so the whole "time" thing could be left out of the model (just want you to be clear how the system works).

How the "weight of the blockchain" is defined? Do you just add the weights of all blocks? Or, say, last k blocks? Can it be a weighted sum?

The weight is simply the sum of each "block target" in the chain (as far as I am aware - will reply again if I've got anything wrong).

Also, a question about the network topology: how is it decided, who will connect to who? In particular, can a "bad guy" just choose, to which nodes it will be connected?

Each node will generally connect to as many nodes as it can within max. limits set and it will ask each node it connects to for that nodes connections also but of course a bad guy could choose to only connect to certain nodes.

A node will disconnect from another if that node "spams" it or has gone "quiet" for too long (to prevent wasting memory on non-functioning connections).
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
Power forged for account and node maximum  100000 Nxt

Accounts with more than 100000 Nxt if they want to forge gradually will be divided into fractions Nxt 100000

accounts with less than 100000 Nxt will share their rights fees in pools. If bob account forge his fees will go into the pool.
Bob would receive a fraction fees as a function of the nxt he had.

The network in the worst case would reach 10 000 nodes

1000000000/100000 = 10000 Nodes

Translated into numbers

if a block has 256 transactions
and 1440 blocks are generated each day

a pool with 100000 nxt generated 52.6 blocks per year
if a Nxt equals 1 Dollar
Blocks 52.6 x 256 = 13,455 dollar per year


in the worst case nearly every week 256 dollar received a pool (grouping of accounts) with 100000 nxt

Bob would receive a fraction fees as a function of the nxt he had in the pool.

if for example the pool is formed by 256 equal  accounts each account will receive 1 dollar per week

Do not forget that you have also mantein your PC if you usually use for other things.

The 256 dollars are to maintain only your actives nodes per week

chances of forging only depends on the nxt you have

This solution at least provoke everyone who wants to forge receive fees every 2-3 days maximum one week.

This at least solves that small accounts are equally motivated to forge that big.

my thoughts are wrong?


if a Nxt equals 1 Dollar  .. but 1 Nxt  doesn't equals 1 $

the cost per transaction is an example
can be adapted as a function of the value of nxt
legendary
Activity: 1778
Merit: 1043
#Free market
Power forged for account and node maximum  100000 Nxt

Accounts with more than 100000 Nxt if they want to forge gradually will be divided into fractions Nxt 100000

accounts with less than 100000 Nxt will share their rights fees in pools. If bob account forge his fees will go into the pool.
Bob would receive a fraction fees as a function of the nxt he had.

The network in the worst case would reach 10 000 nodes

1000000000/100000 = 10000 Nodes

Translated into numbers

if a block has 256 transactions
and 1440 blocks are generated each day

a pool with 100000 nxt generated 52.6 blocks per year
if a Nxt equals 1 Dollar
Blocks 52.6 x 256 = 13,455 dollar per year


in the worst case nearly every week 256 dollar received a pool (grouping of accounts) with 100000 nxt

Bob would receive a fraction fees as a function of the nxt he had in the pool.

if for example the pool is formed by 256 equal  accounts each account will receive 1 dollar per week

Do not forget that you have also mantein your PC if you usually use for other things.

The 256 dollars are to maintain only your actives nodes per week

chances of forging only depends on the nxt you have

This solution at least provoke everyone who wants to forge receive fees every 2-3 days maximum one week.

This at least solves that small accounts are equally motivated to forge that big.

my thoughts are wrong?


if a Nxt equals 1 Dollar  .. but 1 Nxt  doesn't equals 1 $
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
Power forged for account and node maximum  100000 Nxt

Accounts with more than 100000 Nxt if they want to forge gradually will be divided into fractions Nxt 100000

accounts with less than 100000 Nxt will share their rights fees in pools. If bob account forge his fees will go into the pool.
Bob would receive a fraction fees as a function of the nxt he had.

The network in the worst case would reach 10 000 nodes

1000000000/100000 = 10000 Nodes

Translated into numbers

if a block has 256 transactions
and 1440 blocks are generated each day

a pool with 100000 nxt generated 52.6 blocks per year
if a Nxt equals 1 Dollar
Blocks 52.6 x 256 = 13,455 dollar per year


in the worst case nearly every week 256 dollar received a pool (grouping of accounts) with 100000 nxt

Bob would receive a fraction fees as a function of the nxt he had in the pool.

if for example the pool is formed by 256 equal  accounts each account will receive 1 dollar per week

Do not forget that you have also mantein your PC if you usually use for other things.

The 256 dollars are to maintain only your actives nodes per week

chances of forging only depends on the nxt you have

This solution at least provoke everyone who wants to forge receive fees every 2-3 days maximum one week.

This at least solves that small accounts are equally motivated to forge that big.

my thoughts are wrong?
full member
Activity: 266
Merit: 100
NXT is the future

Nice work again apenzl, easy to read and catch up.

thank you
legendary
Activity: 1181
Merit: 1018
Sorry if this issue has been discussed already - when I try to SELL an asset (placeAskOrder) I do get a 'not enough funds' error if the price exceeds the balance on the account!!!

When the account has more money than the Order would require, then it is possible.

This should not happen, because I have sufficient amount of the asset to be sold, and of course the balance is not relevangt for SELLING something (except for the fee, but that is only 1 nxt)


 
trying to place SELL order for 3 UniGots at 1000 nxt = 100000 in the Price field:




Can't place order, reasong not enough funds?
 





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