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Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information - page 683. (Read 2761645 times)

hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 500
Does anyone agrees Nxt community got scammed by Mintpal exchange? They should have not added Nxt for voting if they didn't have technical skills to add it.

They need to refund the money.  



Relax, they are on it, I think.

That was  not the purpose of voting. The voting was intended  to pick up the next winner. Who cares if they add it two months later?

I am calling it a scam


no , it isn't scam .... relax Wink .


Too late to call it "not scam" -- the winner had to be chosen that exact day and implemented.

Scam
legendary
Activity: 1778
Merit: 1043
#Free market
Does anyone agrees Nxt community got scammed by Mintpal exchange? They should have not added Nxt for voting if they didn't have technical skills to add it.

They need to refund the money.  



Relax, they are on it, I think.

That was  not the purpose of voting. The voting was intended  to pick up the next winner. Who cares if they add it two months later?

I am calling it a scam


no , it isn't scam .... relax Wink .
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100

Excellent work Sir, than you! I like the picture of the funding committee  Wink
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 500
Does anyone agrees Nxt community got scammed by Mintpal exchange? They should have not added Nxt for voting if they didn't have technical skills to add it.

They need to refund the money.  



Relax, they are on it, I think.

That was  not the purpose of voting. The voting was intended  to pick up the next winner. Who cares if they add it two months later?

I am calling it a scam
hero member
Activity: 750
Merit: 500
www.coinschedule.com
As NXT is growing and getting stronger marketing should schift focus from IT nerd tech guys-------> to real investors.

We should swarm investor sites like Ihub etc... and talk about NXT and possible ROI.

or we have to attract the mining community in some kind of way.

the well you all pumping now is DRY

And most of all whale should stop selling and turn of them bots.

I like this
sr. member
Activity: 376
Merit: 300
1. How the "weight" variable is actually computed?

So - there is a # in each block and a math op is performed with this # + the account # of the "forger" to provide a new #. You can just think of that # as being the "best account #" so the account who's # is closest to the "best" would be the "best choice" to forge the next block (so would have the max. "weight").

If that account doesn't forge then an account "near" it can forge it instead (how near is increased over time to ensure that a block should always appear every minute). So "later forgers" have less weight (the exact weight being determined by their account #).
OK, but, if we want to be able to calculate probabilities, there must be a good math model of how these weights can be simulated (i.e., something like this: "one can assume that weights of accounts are independent Exponential random variables with expectations equal (or proportional?) to their balances"). Without such a model, it would be difficult to proceed...

3. Assume that a node sees at least one neighbor with a different version of the blockchain (from the blockchain that our node has). How does it decide, which is the "correct" one?

The "correct" one is simply that with the most weight - so at any point a node could ask another node for the "height and weight" of their blockchain and if that answer is better than their own then they would ask for those blocks in order to "switch chains".
How the "weight of the blockchain" is defined? Do you just add the weights of all blocks? Or, say, last k blocks? Can it be a weighted sum?


Also, a question about the network topology: how is it decided, who will connect to who? In particular, can a "bad guy" just choose, to which nodes it will be connected?
full member
Activity: 266
Merit: 100
NXT is the future

See how simple it is... stop selling and price goes up. Wink Grin
hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 1000
Does anyone agrees Nxt community got scammed by Mintpal exchange? They should have not added Nxt for voting if they didn't have technical skills to add it.

They need to refund the money.  



Relax, they are on it, I think.
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1086
Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer
To be clearer about the 90% protection that "penalizing" is supposed to give us the problem is "how to you penalize the 90% if it has been split up into x accounts?" and the answer is "you can't".

So maybe the only result of such a penalty is that a huge stake holder won't "show the size of his stake" by keeping it all in 1 account (most likely he never would do that anyway).

Understand that if I had 1,000 accounts and say "10 of them" were being penalised then the other 990 are fine to keep on forging.
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 500
Does anyone agrees Nxt community got scammed by Mintpal exchange? They should have not added Nxt for voting if they didn't have technical skills to add it.

They need to refund the money.  

hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 1000

I don't know if u wrong or not. Smiley

You talk about the fairy land thing?
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
☕ NXT-4BTE-8Y4K-CDS2-6TB82
Currently, you are right, donations like peerexplorer.com are highly welcome in order to support nodes' owners. But it  can not lasts long.

I don't know. I might be in the best interest of big forgers to incent nodeholders.
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
We need to focus. I need to focus. Thoughts.



BCNext's idea was, speaking of forging incentives, to get rid of transaction fees. The idea is that companies, who use Nxt (as a platform, as their payment provider, as what ever), earn money with their services, and thereby have an interest in running nxt nodes to provide stability for it.

But BCNext doesn't live in fairy land (well, sometimes he does, i think) and knows that thousands of companies will not get built on top of nxt or use nxt right now but in the future. First, we need to provide a stable and secure network to (potential new) businesses before they use it. That's why the first plan is building Nxt as a currency to get a wide adoption. I don't think we are there yet. Only because we know the 2nd plan doesn't mean we have to jump on it. Or should we? And, of course, trust no one, we don't need to follow his ideas, yada yada yada. Well, he is a smart guy. Let's think about it:

We need fees right now to have an incentive for forging (and maybe a better fees structure, like the hallmark idea) and we don't know for how long. But we should also get rid of fees to make it possible for companies to use Nxt. This chicken and egg problem can only be solved with a gradually decrease of fees and give Nxt a kickstart with paid infrastructure for the next months (years, we don't know). Or is there another solution?

If this is correct, we should talk about how we will come to a consensus about decreasing fees in the future. And our infrastructure committee (not in place yet) should go to work on nerdy things for stability, 1000TPS, .. as soon as possible.

Also, how do we prevent spamming when there are no fees? Maybe we should have different fees on different parallel blockchains.



Penalties. At least it was part of BCNext's idea that we should penalize accounts who don't forge. I don't see a problem here as long as we talk about proper penalty. Not allowed to forge for the next 1440 blocks seems fair.



I want to know where I'm wrong and I want to hear CfB on both topics.

I don't know if u wrong or not. Smiley
hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 1000
We need to focus. I need to focus. Thoughts.



BCNext's idea was, speaking of forging incentives, to get rid of transaction fees. The idea is that companies, who use Nxt (as a platform, as their payment provider, as what ever), earn money with their services, and thereby have an interest in running nxt nodes to provide stability for it.

But BCNext doesn't live in fairy land (well, sometimes he does, i think) and knows that thousands of companies will not get built on top of nxt or use nxt right now but in the future. First, we need to provide a stable and secure network to (potential new) businesses before they use it. That's why the first plan is building Nxt as a currency to get a wide adoption. I don't think we are there yet. Only because we know the 2nd plan doesn't mean we have to jump on it. Or should we? And, of course, trust no one, we don't need to follow his ideas, yada yada yada. Well, he is a smart guy. Let's think about it:

We need fees right now to have an incentive for forging (and maybe a better fees structure, like the hallmark idea) and we don't know for how long. But we should also get rid of fees to make it possible for companies to use Nxt. This chicken and egg problem can only be solved with a gradually decrease of fees and give Nxt a kickstart with paid infrastructure for the next months (years, we don't know). Or is there another solution?

If this is correct, we should talk about how we will come to a consensus about decreasing fees in the future. And our infrastructure committee (not in place yet) should go to work on nerdy things for stability, 1000TPS, .. as soon as possible.

Also, how do we prevent spamming when there are no fees? Maybe we should have different fees on different parallel blockchains.



Penalties. At least it was part of BCNext's idea that we should penalize accounts who don't forge. I don't see a problem here as long as we talk about proper penalty. Not allowed to forge for the next 1440 blocks seems fair.



I want to know where I'm wrong and I want to hear CfB on both topics.
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1086
Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer
I was out watching the new Hobbit film (which is quite spectacular) so have been catching up with the posts regarding TF and forging rewards.

First to clarify something - as proposed by BCNext full TF *would* include the "did not forge" penalty, however, it is up to the community to decide whether or not to do this.

I am hoping the math guy who was taking some interest in this might be able to work out some calculations to help us come to a decision about that (as I think it would be best to trust in math rather than in our "gut instincts").

@2Kool4Skewl your idea of rewarding Hallmark nodes is unfortunately not really possible as there is simply no way the nodes could all agree who was "online" (the network topology problem you mentioned yourself).
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
☕ NXT-4BTE-8Y4K-CDS2-6TB82
Is penalizing not a part of TF?
No, penalizing isn't part of TF.
- yes, penalizing is a key part of TF:

...Imagine someone is going to do a "51%" attack against Nxt and he owns 90% of all coins. The adversary must stop generating blocks for legit branch coz he won't be able to compete against 100% mining power with his 90%. So he decides to "skip" his turn to generate a block. The rest 10% of the network detects this and penalizes the adversary by setting his mining power to 0 and distributing it among other miners.

Thanks for digging that up.
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
☕ NXT-4BTE-8Y4K-CDS2-6TB82
We are searching for the right incentives for:

- running a node (this secures the network)
- running a node, have an open nxt account and forging with it (this secures the security of nxt = 90% attacks ?!) DONE by TF.

FIFY.

I think we shouldn't ignore the second point in our discussion since we need forging nodes. You say it is "done by TF" but TF only is the mechanism which saves us from 51% attacks. But we still need to talk about incentives for forging.

Service providers will do it.

But we first need to have forging-only nodes until service providers take over.
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
☕ NXT-4BTE-8Y4K-CDS2-6TB82
"Somebody buys up all the NXT."  <<< How?
Imagine simultaneous bids for NXT in the range of $100 USD, equivalent amount of EUR, JPY, etc.
with all fiats coordinating, most NXT owners would probably sell.

I would not.
sr. member
Activity: 396
Merit: 250
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
☕ NXT-4BTE-8Y4K-CDS2-6TB82
If you have your node running, but don't have any NXT, you are not securing the blockchain.
This is why the NXTcoins will payout dividends in NXT. for a signing bonus, I will probably just seed every miner with 1 NXT

James, please do not build upon false statements.

Huh? What false statements. What do you think I am saying?

"If you have your node running, but don't have any NXT, you are not securing the blockchain." is wrong.
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