Topic: ODD - EVEN win 198% | Provably | House edge 1% - page 20. (Read 21704 times)

exchange use standard Unix timestamp kind of 1481677011.

the exchande not use milliseconds!
step is one seconds.

if wanna check your bet player can contact with support btcc.com and request the volume and price by needed timestamp.

You can try our game.
please make min 0.0005 bet.. and check it

I agree with NLNico.

Indeed there are trades even in between a second. He already showed it. How do we know the system chose the correct one by the time we placed our bets? Because indeed there is a time stamp but it only shows it by the second and not milliseconds. Therefore, if there are 10 transactions in one second, how do we know that the system did not pick a number that is favorable to the site?

You cannot use timestamps if you want to be provably fair. There is no fixed timestamp at bitcoin transactions. There can be a 0 - 10 second delay EASILY between when a bitcoin node gets the transaction. You could maliciously change the timestamp to 1,2,3,4.. seconds later to make the player lose. There is no way for the player to verify if you did this. Therefor it's impossible to generate a provably fair outcome with this.



I replied to your PM already too:

We get real data from https://data.btcchina.com/data/ticker?market=btccny

example:
{"ticker":{"high":"5460.00","low":"5376.71","buy":"5446.03","sell":"5446.21","last":"5446.03","vol":"1099575.40990000","date":1481785161,"vwap":"5431.94","prev_close":"5442.93","open":"5443.2"}}

by timestamp one volume and one price.

if wanna check your bet player can contact with support btcc.com and request the volume and price by needed timestamp.

for easy we can remove Volume from hash and still price only. ok?

I am not saying you are a scam. I am also not saying that you are cheating. I could believe that you are honest. But provably fair is not about believing or trusting.

Provably fair is a way for the players to verify and prove if they have been cheated or not. On your site, they cannot verify and prove this, because using "timestamp" is unreliable as shown in my previous posts. Therefor the player just has to trust you to be fair.

That is "trust us, we are fair" and not "provably (=you can prove we are) fair".

This is not scam, we get real data form btcc only.
We fixed it in result table.

Please try our game and check result..

Thanks!

Trust != proof.

Besides that, I am not even questioning the data from BTCC. I don't think your wager volume is enough for BTCC to be malicious.



I am saying that we have no way to verify at which point YOU get the data from BTCC. It is very easy to say that the transaction was 1-2 seconds earlier or later at your bitcoin node. This would result into completely different results and there would be no way for the player to verify the bet result. You could make the player lose every bet and there would be no way for the player to verify and prove if he was cheated or not.



Your site is not provably fair. You should either fix the provably fair method or stop promoting your site as a provably fair site.

We get volume from https://data.btcchina.com/data/ticker?market=btccny

example:
{"ticker":{"high":"5460.00","low":"5376.71","buy":"5446.03","sell":"5446.21","last":"5446.03","vol":"1099575.40990000","date":1481785161,"vwap":"5431.94","prev_close":"5442.93","open":"5443.2"}}

by timestamp one volume.

If our game can say not provably, that btcc.com is not provably too.
but i trust btcc.com.

No, what I said is correct.

1. There is no way to verify at which specific point you get the trade data. Just a few milliseconds later, would result into a completly different result. I gave a pretty easy-to-understand example of this. Look at the link you gave me:


12 trades in 1 second, all timestamp 1481768751. All of those traders affect the volume (and sometimes the price.) You can pick the volume you like and there is no way for the player to verify it. Therefor it is not provably fair.

2. There is no fixed timestamps on transactions. Each node can see a transactions at a different timestamp, because it takes time for the transactions to be relayed through the bitcoin network.

I just want to emphasize that this site is not provably fair.

It also has indeed a 7.5% house edge, which is relatively high for a simple dice-like game (but covers the mining fee too I guess?)



Why is this site not provably fair?

It uses timestamp and unverifiable third-party data for the bet results. It is very easy for the site to slightly change this data (just a few milliseconds later) to make you lose.



Example

Imagine I am betting EVEN. The bet result is: sha256(BTC/CNY:TIMESTAMP:VOLUME:TXID) Let's say the site picks the following input data:

BTC/CNY: 5436.23
TIMESTAMP: 1481781996
VOLUME: 957326.6386
TXID: de1f78ed0e2fdb557458a4af1aecf17d73b06df8ed51cd0d14919dcf995b4175

This results into: ebbc2a4ec2ec8b82336cb8b51f32dd3d523f7bac5da76bac0629123e44ac2fea

As you can see, the first digit is EVEN so I should win.



Now the problem is, BTCC has many many trades PER SECOND. So if I win with this input data, it is very easy to just get the trade data from a few milli seconds later. Because a few milliseconds later, another trade is done - making the BTC/CNY price and VOLUME different. This results into a completely different result. For example, the data of a few milliseconds later would result into:

BTC/CNY: 5436.24
TIMESTAMP: 1481781996
VOLUME: 957326.7386
TXID: de1f78ed0e2fdb557458a4af1aecf17d73b06df8ed51cd0d14919dcf995b4175

This results into: 55f0fc73a8a239662184f0873dfe93574591f4542ad72b3f66617f3e877294a7

So by just getting the input data of a few milliseconds later, they can make me lose.


That's why you cannot use unverifiable third-party data like this. Even the timestamp is unreliable, because there is no fixed timestamps on transactions, so it's very easy to remove or add 1 second.




I am not claiming the site owner is doing this. But calling this site "provably fair" is just not correct. If you want to make your game provably fair, you should look how other on-chain games do it, like luckybit.

i think minimum bet is high , and max bet is low 

We start ODD or EVEN *PROMO* - Giveaway Free 0.0005 btc
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/odd-or-even-promo-giveaway-free-00005-btc-closed-1716391

Thanks friends!

we use BTCC exchange socket (not use  Huobi and OKCoin)

determined Seed value = (BTC/CNY:TIMESTAMP:VOLUME:TXID)
details here http://crazybtrade.com/provablyfair.php

What do you mean its used as a random generator? The Huobi and OKCoin price for BTC / CNY is around ~5430 which is pretty close to what you have on your site. How are these quotes deteremined?


Its 15% because these are binary options and if you understand the markets you have a greater edge so it needs to be higher than  1%

Check our ODD-EVEN bitcoin game with provably fair!
Easy to play, need choose Odd or Even only.
Payment after 1 confirmation

No, winning is 185$. Your profit will be 85$.
Coef = 1.85 or 185%.

then it should state 185% return on the bet NOT win
because when win is 185% if I bet 100$=185$ win + my stake 100$ return
and  in total it is 285$
it is misleading

for example:

if placed bet 100$ and win, you get 185$.

winning=bet x 1.85

wait is it 15% house edge?
can you explain 185% win to me,please
if I bet 100$ I get 285$ ,right?
or is it 185$ because otherwise it just doesn't make any sense