Just because you hire a lawyer doesn't mean you talk to him immediately.
At least in my experience dealing with them.
Topic: Off-Topic - page 48. (Read 384416 times)
Those considering legal action should consider doing it on their own, for the very reason Bargraphics pointed out: It's easier to get a judgement on a single order. However, it will obviously take more effort, and that is a deterrent.
Before joining up with him, consider the following about trusting Bargraphic's motives:
1). Bar has blindly supported TH throughout this thread, was one of two people that vouched for them with a site visit, and strongly attacked anyone that spoke negatively about TH
2). He strongly discouraged anyone to seek refunds with TH up until 1-2 weeks ago
3). He created a thread to be the lead communicator with TH on determining how to proceed with orders - Results? Besides buying TH more time...
4). He stated that he had legal action in progress, and today he stated that he just called an attorney last night
5). Put your tinfoil hats on for this one... He had the very first order with TH on record. Draw your own assumptions.
Now, of course anyone still stuck with money in TH's pockets will seek any way possible to get money back, please pursue your own actions in parallel with any discussion with Bar. If you had followed Bar's advice up to this very day, you would be on the losing side (with this venture, and many others that more recent posts have pointed out), so learn from your mistakes, and spend the extra effort to contact your own lawyer and don't wait for others to do the work for you, especially someone with such a bad track record.
Another confusing piece of Bar's efforts, on 9/20 he posts:
And just today (4 days later) he posts:
Before joining up with him, consider the following about trusting Bargraphic's motives:
1). Bar has blindly supported TH throughout this thread, was one of two people that vouched for them with a site visit, and strongly attacked anyone that spoke negatively about TH
2). He strongly discouraged anyone to seek refunds with TH up until 1-2 weeks ago
3). He created a thread to be the lead communicator with TH on determining how to proceed with orders - Results? Besides buying TH more time...
4). He stated that he had legal action in progress, and today he stated that he just called an attorney last night
5). Put your tinfoil hats on for this one... He had the very first order with TH on record. Draw your own assumptions.
Now, of course anyone still stuck with money in TH's pockets will seek any way possible to get money back, please pursue your own actions in parallel with any discussion with Bar. If you had followed Bar's advice up to this very day, you would be on the losing side (with this venture, and many others that more recent posts have pointed out), so learn from your mistakes, and spend the extra effort to contact your own lawyer and don't wait for others to do the work for you, especially someone with such a bad track record.
Another confusing piece of Bar's efforts, on 9/20 he posts:
I already have a lawyer lined up in California for anyone that is interested in joining in.
Just PM me and I'll do what I can.
Just PM me and I'll do what I can.
And just today (4 days later) he posts:
I am in the preliminary stages with the lawyer, we talked for about 35 minutes last night regarding this case and he's asked for additional information which I have sent. I have not retained anyone currently but we both seem to agree that this case is fairly simple for those involved with USD payments.
I've been advised that trying to sue for BTC payments will add a very complicated layer to the case but I have also sent them are the information regarding that court case where they mentioned BTC as a currency.
I really don't want to talk much about anything else until I have a lawyer on retainer and after I send all of the individuals that PM'd me a message. At that time I will likely open up another thread (What Forum Topic should I use to post it in? Scam Accusations?)
It turns out that International Payments are not very hard to include in the lawsuit,
I've also been advised that this will likely NOT fit under a class action so those that do not contact me and are not involved will not see any benefit from the outcome of this case if it goes that far.
For what it's worth, I've also been advised that I would likely have a higher success rate if I did this alone than with Co-Plaintiffs due to them only needing to pay my money back versus multiple people but I made it clear that this is not an option for me at this point and anyone that I can include in this will be able to join.
I've been advised that trying to sue for BTC payments will add a very complicated layer to the case but I have also sent them are the information regarding that court case where they mentioned BTC as a currency.
I really don't want to talk much about anything else until I have a lawyer on retainer and after I send all of the individuals that PM'd me a message. At that time I will likely open up another thread (What Forum Topic should I use to post it in? Scam Accusations?)
It turns out that International Payments are not very hard to include in the lawsuit,
I've also been advised that this will likely NOT fit under a class action so those that do not contact me and are not involved will not see any benefit from the outcome of this case if it goes that far.
For what it's worth, I've also been advised that I would likely have a higher success rate if I did this alone than with Co-Plaintiffs due to them only needing to pay my money back versus multiple people but I made it clear that this is not an option for me at this point and anyone that I can include in this will be able to join.
Somehow I have a feeling that Amir is sitting somewhere in Thailand with BKK, drinking cold beer and laughing how they got us for nearly a mil.
Wondering is Yuify or whatever is joining in. lol
ok, I was kidding.., I HOPE.
Wondering is Yuify or whatever is joining in. lol
ok, I was kidding.., I HOPE.
So.., TH never sent the working board to the person who sent them his chips, right?
That is correct, the user was hchc fyi.
So.., TH never sent the working board to the person who sent them his chips, right?
Bar - your new demeanor suits you well. Would have been a lot more effective if you had that earlier on while supporting TH.
I think BTCeic may have thought you already got a refund based on your prior statements. It does get a bit confusing sometimes.
I think BTCeic may have thought you already got a refund based on your prior statements. It does get a bit confusing sometimes.
Again, I can't imagine why you can't wrap your head around the concept that when you deal in large sums of money with a bank, they offer protection even on bank transfers (Especially if it is inside the US). There's no risk to me so again you can rest easy!
Sadly you are mistaken again,
While the small change that you deposit in your bank doesn't give you any recourse against scams, when you deal with large amount of money on a daily basis bank actually do offer protection on these purchases. Not only that but again I personally went out there to meet with them. If I truly wanted to get a refund from this company it wouldn't be too hard, but that's not how I conduct business unlike you.
While the small change that you deposit in your bank doesn't give you any recourse against scams, when you deal with large amount of money on a daily basis bank actually do offer protection on these purchases. Not only that but again I personally went out there to meet with them. If I truly wanted to get a refund from this company it wouldn't be too hard, but that's not how I conduct business unlike you.
I thought you had gotten a full refund already?
I'm honestly lost with you, you don't read, you ask questions just to set me up for rhetoric that you were already going to state regardless of my answers and you seemingly would rather people not get a refund just because you have some sort of vendetta against me. This is very tiresome.
Here's my last quote on this matter (It was even in the thread that you STARTED)
As far as wire transfers go, you can get a refund if the money is still "Floating" in the bank of who you sent it to. Your bank will call theirs and find out. If it isn't "Floating" and is in the persons account, your bank will call their bank and request for the money to be returned at this point their bank contacts them for an "Approval" to return the funds.
If no such approval is made then you will have to use legal action.
I personally have slightly more recourse with my bank but I would end up getting more money back with legal action plus maybe it will wake Terrahash up.
If no such approval is made then you will have to use legal action.
I personally have slightly more recourse with my bank but I would end up getting more money back with legal action plus maybe it will wake Terrahash up.
Please be blunt with me, I don't want to waste anymore time playing your questions game, what are you trying to get at?
I honestly thought I remember reading that you had received a full refund, mistakes happen.
As for a vendetta against you? No, usually I attack your arguments, sometimes I do cross the line, and for that I do apologize. I don't hate you nor dislike you, I appreciate the banter, having said that I do think that you are due for a few more life lessons.
Regarding refunds, What have I been espousing since June, your the one thats been calling us dipshits and trolls for even considering refunds, and of course I want everybody to get their refunds including you, it's TerraHash that does not deserve to be a part of this.
One of the hardest things i would ask the lawyer about bitcoins. Might want to see if they really want to combine bitcoin orders and other orders in one lawsuit. I think the bitcoin one might be harder to get a judge to understand, really want to see what they think if it gets to point of lawsuit. Money will be easier.
A lot of people are asking this question in PMs,
Basically from my understand it doesn't matter if you pay someone in gold/euro/chickens, they advertised a price (Let's use the fully populated DX-Large as an example) $10,500.
We would essentially sue them for $10,500 and not for "Bitcoins".
Obviously I would bring this issue up to the lawyer and get their opinion about it but if it comes down to trying to get BTC back from Terrahash I might not be able to have them join in the lawsuit.
This will obviously be one of the first questions once a fully established counsel is chosen so I'll let everyone know when I do.
gold/euro/chickens all have value. I know chickens were meant as a joke but still laws on books about them. Bitcoin is not a official currency in US, and since virtual will be interesting to see how it goes.
Are you hiring a lawyer who specializes in anything, or law firm with multiple? What type of lawyer accepted the case?
I am in the preliminary stages with the lawyer, we talked for about 35 minutes last night regarding this case and he's asked for additional information which I have sent. I have not retained anyone currently but we both seem to agree that this case is fairly simple for those involved with USD payments.
I've been advised that trying to sue for BTC payments will add a very complicated layer to the case but I have also sent them are the information regarding that court case where they mentioned BTC as a currency.
I really don't want to talk much about anything else until I have a lawyer on retainer and after I send all of the individuals that PM'd me a message. At that time I will likely open up another thread (What Forum Topic should I use to post it in? Scam Accusations?)
It turns out that International Payments are not very hard to include in the lawsuit,
I've also been advised that this will likely NOT fit under a class action so those that do not contact me and are not involved will not see any benefit from the outcome of this case if it goes that far.
For what it's worth, I've also been advised that I would likely have a higher success rate if I did this alone than with Co-Plaintiffs due to them only needing to pay my money back versus multiple people but I made it clear that this is not an option for me at this point and anyone that I can include in this will be able to join.
I thought you had gotten a full refund already?
gold/euro/chickens all have value. I know chickens were meant as a joke but still laws on books about them. Bitcoin is not a official currency in US, and since virtual will be interesting to see how it goes.
Are you hiring a lawyer who specializes in anything, or law firm with multiple? What type of lawyer accepted the case?
US courts disagree with you:
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/08/federal-judge-bitcoin-a-currency-can-be-regulated-under-american-law/
One of the hardest things i would ask the lawyer about bitcoins. Might want to see if they really want to combine bitcoin orders and other orders in one lawsuit. I think the bitcoin one might be harder to get a judge to understand, really want to see what they think if it gets to point of lawsuit. Money will be easier.
A lot of people are asking this question in PMs,
Basically from my understand it doesn't matter if you pay someone in gold/euro/chickens, they advertised a price (Let's use the fully populated DX-Large as an example) $10,500.
We would essentially sue them for $10,500 and not for "Bitcoins".
Obviously I would bring this issue up to the lawyer and get their opinion about it but if it comes down to trying to get BTC back from Terrahash I might not be able to have them join in the lawsuit.
This will obviously be one of the first questions once a fully established counsel is chosen so I'll let everyone know when I do.
gold/euro/chickens all have value. I know chickens were meant as a joke but still laws on books about them. Bitcoin is not a official currency in US, and since virtual will be interesting to see how it goes.
Are you hiring a lawyer who specializes in anything, or law firm with multiple? What type of lawyer accepted the case?
I have no skin in this game.
That aside, would it not make sense that anyone wishing to lead in legal action come forward and state there intention.
And then those who it concerns can vote there preference.
Do not get splintered on this or you will fail. Stand together and fight.
That aside, would it not make sense that anyone wishing to lead in legal action come forward and state there intention.
And then those who it concerns can vote there preference.
Do not get splintered on this or you will fail. Stand together and fight.
hey Bar,
any Chance you can start a new thread so I don't have to keep reading this one
...
I have officially had enough of the official Terrahash thread
Are you kidding? this thread is great,,,better than reality TV..... better than most soap opera's,,, when I drink my coffee in the morning, its one of the first things I read up on,,,after news and emails of course,,, this thread is unlike any other! "As the Terrahash World Turns" like an on going saga,,,,,,except its on 24 hrs a day! any Chance you can start a new thread so I don't have to keep reading this one
...
I have officially had enough of the official Terrahash thread
with all the lead characters,,,bar, atomic and an occasional guest star, knightlife999 and the rest of the supporting cast,,,so no, don't make a new thread, oh and we cant forget that dastardly elusive evil villain, Amir Khan sorta sounds familiar ... genghis khan So much complaining about nothing....
Some of you guys must want Terrahash to whisper in your ear every night before you go to sleep that everything will be OK.
They've shown they are capable of producing this miner.
You've placed a pre-order for a product that should arrive 2 Weeks after Avalon Chips are delivered.
Sit back, buckle in, and enjoy the ride.
Some of you guys must want Terrahash to whisper in your ear every night before you go to sleep that everything will be OK.
They've shown they are capable of producing this miner.
You've placed a pre-order for a product that should arrive 2 Weeks after Avalon Chips are delivered.
Sit back, buckle in, and enjoy the ride.
At what point do you get off the ride?
Everything Bargraphics touches turns to shit and fails.
If you listened to his advice on ACTM, you've lost your shirt.
If you listened to his advice on TerraM, you've lost your shirt.
If you listened to his advice on LABCOIN, you've lost your shirt.
There is no good reason to think his fancy California lawyer will do anything except take what's left of Bargraphic's money and then tell us we're going to get laughed out of court in the case of Greedy Fail InvesTards vs Chinese Ponzi Scheme.
If you listened to his advice on ACTM, you've lost your shirt.
If you listened to his advice on TerraM, you've lost your shirt.
If you listened to his advice on LABCOIN, you've lost your shirt.
There is no good reason to think his fancy California lawyer will do anything except take what's left of Bargraphic's money and then tell us we're going to get laughed out of court in the case of Greedy Fail InvesTards vs Chinese Ponzi Scheme.
Only speculators lost in ACTM, we can come back to this once they have chips and are selling a product in November.
Never invested in anything called "TerraM"
Never invested in "LABCOIN" as I do not even have a BTCT account.
Did invest icedrill though which you seem to be Heavily invested in so hopefully that doesn't "turn to shit and fail" hah
I'm not entirely sure you understand what you are talking about considering you mention "investing" and "Chinese ponzi scheme" in a "consumer product purchase" vs "california LLC/citizens"
The owners of terrahash are not even of chinese descent....
You are really out of your trolling element today iCEBREAKER usually you post things that are so arbitrary that they can't be proven wrong or right but in this case you dropped the ball.
OK maybe I'm wrong and your glorious lawsuit will be a success resulting in a more than complete recovery of the BTC TerraH accepted from gullible you.
But based on your track record with ACTM and Avalon investing, it seems highly unlikely.
Good luck!
Translation provided below....
Barspeak translation: I was not wrong, am never wrong, and the people stating that TH had some issues since day one DEFINITELY were not right.
Barspeak translation: Question me at all, or fail to back me up when people question me, and you're on your own. I don't have time for people that have different opinions. I really need some positive Chi and Karma after this debacle.
I don't believe there has ever been a flip flop, I've always stated unless Terrahash proves otherwise they are a decent company, well it turns out they have been proved otherwise by their own actions (Not the words of Internet Trolls) and I acted accordingly.
Barspeak translation: I was not wrong, am never wrong, and the people stating that TH had some issues since day one DEFINITELY were not right.
Quote
How do we know that you are not a TerraHash or Amir or Justin shill account?
I'm not even sure how to answer this one, I guess anyone that thinks this takes off their tinfoil hat they will see it for themselves.
Other than that I have talked with various people on this forum on the phone and met a few in California.
But in all seriousness, I'm not interested in helping out anyone that has this kind of mindset so I guess it really doesn't matter.
I'm not even sure how to answer this one, I guess anyone that thinks this takes off their tinfoil hat they will see it for themselves.
Other than that I have talked with various people on this forum on the phone and met a few in California.
But in all seriousness, I'm not interested in helping out anyone that has this kind of mindset so I guess it really doesn't matter.
Barspeak translation: Question me at all, or fail to back me up when people question me, and you're on your own. I don't have time for people that have different opinions. I really need some positive Chi and Karma after this debacle.
Everything Bargraphics touches turns to shit and fails.
If you listened to his advice on ACTM, you've lost your shirt.
If you listened to his advice on TerraM, you've lost your shirt.
If you listened to his advice on LABCOIN, you've lost your shirt.
There is no good reason to think his fancy California lawyer will do anything except take what's left of Bargraphic's money and then tell us we're going to get laughed out of court in the case of Greedy Fail InvesTards vs Chinese Ponzi Scheme.
hey Bar,
any Chance you can start a new thread so I don't have to keep reading this one
...
I have officially had enough of the official Terrahash thread
any Chance you can start a new thread so I don't have to keep reading this one
...
I have officially had enough of the official Terrahash thread
One of the hardest things i would ask the lawyer about bitcoins. Might want to see if they really want to combine bitcoin orders and other orders in one lawsuit. I think the bitcoin one might be harder to get a judge to understand, really want to see what they think if it gets to point of lawsuit. Money will be easier.
I for one hope it doesn't come down to that but again if by the end of the week we don't hear from Terrahash it will put into motion.
Timer removed. End time: 2013-09-27+24:00:00EDT
For all concerned please post the info of your lawyer, so that we may independently vet them ourselves.
I am still in talks with them to see if they want to take the case. All information will be posted if an agreement is made. I have no intention of hiding any of this information.
Just to clarify, regardless of if this particular Lawyer takes the case or not, one will be found as fast I can possibly find one that I feel comfortable with however as I said I'm giving them to the end of this week knowing full well that organization is being made to bring a lawsuit against them.
What experience do you have in vetting lawyers?
Have you ever been in court? If so in what capacity?
Why should customers trust you to find them the best legal counsel, especially considering the gigantic flip flop that you have performed in the last week or so?
How do we know that you are not a TerraHash or Amir or Justin shill account?
I guess I can answer some of these,
I have been in two lawsuits that I have started but have never had to appear in court as they were finalized prior to having to do that.
Vetting is very opinionated so I'm not sure what kind of answer you are looking for. I'm obviously going to look for a lawyer that I feel (opinion) is going to the best job for me.
As for your "Why should customers trust you to find them the best legal counsel", that's completely up to them. I'm paying for the legal counsel myself and they have every right to go and find a lawyer themselves. I don't believe there has ever been a flip flop, I've always stated unless Terrahash proves otherwise they are a decent company, well it turns out they have been proved otherwise by their own actions (Not the words of Internet Trolls) and I acted accordingly.
Quote
How do we know that you are not a TerraHash or Amir or Justin shill account?
I'm not even sure how to answer this one, I guess anyone that thinks this takes off their tinfoil hat they will see it for themselves.
Other than that I have talked with various people on this forum on the phone and met a few in California.
But in all seriousness, I'm not interested in helping out anyone that has this kind of mindset so I guess it really doesn't matter.
It is my opinion that you should NOT follow bar's advice regarding this or any lawsuit, I cant quite put my finger on it but this smacks of something very fishy.
I am not saying dont sue and I am not saying to sue, I am saying do your own due dilligence and come to your own conclusions.
Translation provided below....
Barspeak translation: I was not wrong, am never wrong, and the people stating that TH had some issues since day one DEFINITELY were not right.
Barspeak translation: Question me at all, or fail to back me up when people question me, and you're on your own. I don't have time for people that have different opinions. I really need some positive Chi and Karma after this debacle.
I don't believe there has ever been a flip flop, I've always stated unless Terrahash proves otherwise they are a decent company, well it turns out they have been proved otherwise by their own actions (Not the words of Internet Trolls) and I acted accordingly.
Barspeak translation: I was not wrong, am never wrong, and the people stating that TH had some issues since day one DEFINITELY were not right.
Quote
How do we know that you are not a TerraHash or Amir or Justin shill account?
I'm not even sure how to answer this one, I guess anyone that thinks this takes off their tinfoil hat they will see it for themselves.
Other than that I have talked with various people on this forum on the phone and met a few in California.
But in all seriousness, I'm not interested in helping out anyone that has this kind of mindset so I guess it really doesn't matter.
I'm not even sure how to answer this one, I guess anyone that thinks this takes off their tinfoil hat they will see it for themselves.
Other than that I have talked with various people on this forum on the phone and met a few in California.
But in all seriousness, I'm not interested in helping out anyone that has this kind of mindset so I guess it really doesn't matter.
Barspeak translation: Question me at all, or fail to back me up when people question me, and you're on your own. I don't have time for people that have different opinions. I really need some positive Chi and Karma after this debacle.
Oh, and for those sick of reading the back and forth with Bar.. I did attempt to reach out and keep it in PM. In the interest of full disclosure.
Actually I get my validation from the many PMs that actually tell me not to respond to you. The verbal phone calls I have with many of the vocal people that are actively in the thread saying that everything I have stated was correct and still is.
Please do not PM me again as you are a condescending asshole and I have no interest in holding any sort of conversation with you especially in PMs. If you feel the need to continue exercising your keyboard warrior status on the Terrahash Threads, please do so. Just remember that I have nothing to prove directly to you, but I will not let you try to "misguide" people into not joining this lawsuit because of your insatiable appetite to be correct.
Figured I'd drop my favorite misguided person a quick note.. Maybe you won't feel as threatened in PM when I call you out.
I know you have a very big need to be perceived as being correct. And you also have an ego that is extremely fragile, so I completely understand your need for validation with this whole TH deal. Fact is, you were very wrong here. Not only were you wrong, but you personally attacked those that pointed out flaws with Terrahash all along the way.
Your insecurity really comes through in your messages. At some point, you might want to go back and read some of the messages you write when you are away from the heat of the battle. You could be pointed out as an example of many psychological disorders.
I'm glad you have people contacting you for help on getting refunds, and I'm hopeful that you can assist them with those refunds. That said, I think you mistake those pleads for help for any validation of your pathetic behavior throughout this thread, and many others that I read from you. People would take help from anyone offering in order to hope for money back, even if it's from the person that was TH's biggest supporter. Karma, eh?
Those that need to strong arm their "logic" have a pretty weak case. We can dance throughout the rest of the future of the TH thread, as I quite enjoy pointing out your past statements of crap that turned out to be just that, or you can simply admit that you were wrong a cease the personal attacks.
You get to be the man here, not the scared little boy that is backed into a corner and lashes out to make sure that his opinion is heard. Go ahead and apologize in the thread, and admit your mistakes you made by attacking those trying to help, and you'll clear up the whole thread of this crap.
Then again, we both know you won't do that. Did you see how I can put aside my personal beefs? I hope you are getting along well with the new addition, and you set a good example for him. I imagine you are much different in real life, I guess this internet thing makes you feel empowered.
I know you have a very big need to be perceived as being correct. And you also have an ego that is extremely fragile, so I completely understand your need for validation with this whole TH deal. Fact is, you were very wrong here. Not only were you wrong, but you personally attacked those that pointed out flaws with Terrahash all along the way.
Your insecurity really comes through in your messages. At some point, you might want to go back and read some of the messages you write when you are away from the heat of the battle. You could be pointed out as an example of many psychological disorders.
I'm glad you have people contacting you for help on getting refunds, and I'm hopeful that you can assist them with those refunds. That said, I think you mistake those pleads for help for any validation of your pathetic behavior throughout this thread, and many others that I read from you. People would take help from anyone offering in order to hope for money back, even if it's from the person that was TH's biggest supporter. Karma, eh?
Those that need to strong arm their "logic" have a pretty weak case. We can dance throughout the rest of the future of the TH thread, as I quite enjoy pointing out your past statements of crap that turned out to be just that, or you can simply admit that you were wrong a cease the personal attacks.
You get to be the man here, not the scared little boy that is backed into a corner and lashes out to make sure that his opinion is heard. Go ahead and apologize in the thread, and admit your mistakes you made by attacking those trying to help, and you'll clear up the whole thread of this crap.
Then again, we both know you won't do that. Did you see how I can put aside my personal beefs? I hope you are getting along well with the new addition, and you set a good example for him. I imagine you are much different in real life, I guess this internet thing makes you feel empowered.
Actually I get my validation from the many PMs that actually tell me not to respond to you. The verbal phone calls I have with many of the vocal people that are actively in the thread saying that everything I have stated was correct and still is.
Please do not PM me again as you are a condescending asshole and I have no interest in holding any sort of conversation with you especially in PMs. If you feel the need to continue exercising your keyboard warrior status on the Terrahash Threads, please do so. Just remember that I have nothing to prove directly to you, but I will not let you try to "misguide" people into not joining this lawsuit because of your insatiable appetite to be correct.
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