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Topic: Official Gox / CoinLab Integration and Transition FAQ (Read 20797 times)

legendary
Activity: 2618
Merit: 1022
Let be realistic CNY is a different social os, fraught with issues,

however, they are less likely to kill an enterprise that makes them money and gives the potential openings in emerging areas and outs they want.

Bitcoin is fully illegal in China, and our negotiations with the local government so far have been without success.

Either way let's be realistic here. Most of our customers are located in countries such as US, Europe and others. Running away to Vietnam or China would make it basically impossible for us to receive or send funds to anyone in those countries.

back to JPY....a nightmare for the US to try and enforce anything at all or at least quickly and not always on the friendliest terms with regional neighbors

Japanese government is friendly to US, and also implements things such as FACTA. Also the US government can pressure any bank worldwide by threatening of cutting them off USD. A bank in any country that can not transfer USD anymore is of no use to anyone. US government has been doing this so far to get accounts held by "terrorists" (people linked to North Korea, mafia, actual terrorists, etc) and while Bitcoin is still too small to get this kind of response, it's a good idea to stay friendly with the US govt. at this point and let Bitcoin grow and gain in legitimacy.


Anyway none of this advice is actually applicable as it would shut us from our customers, makes us unable to hold any USD and potentially limit our transfer solutions to non-conventional methods (liberty reserve, webmoney, etc...).

We are doing our best to see Bitcoin grow as an actual alternative to the existing system, but until Bitcoin is large enough to stand on its own, we need the current system to accept and support us.

Ok necroposting much, but may I point out how that volume on "Bitcoin is fully illegal in China," btcnCNY 42K v Gox 32K last 24Hrs

 
legendary
Activity: 1437
Merit: 1002
https://bitmynt.no
Mt Gox should settle the lawsuit in bfl miners. That way coinlab will never see a cent Tongue
Why do you think coin lab is the bad guy here?  If there were contractually binding agreements that coin lab honored and mtgox wasn't then they deserve it no?
75 million USD.  Driving a competitor bankrupt through lawsuits is a very USAnian form of "free market competition" which the rest of the world don't understand.  MtGox deserves it just like people sharing a few music files on the internet deserves to pay millions of USD in compensation to RIAA, or someone selling hot coffee deserves to pay millions of USD in compensation to someone spilling it on themselves.

No court in the rest of the world would take this seriously.  Which is probably the reason why CoinLab wanted a court in the USA, probably known for outrageous compensations like this, chosen in the contract.  CoinLab has been a scam all the way.
hero member
Activity: 490
Merit: 500
Mt Gox should settle the lawsuit in bfl miners. That way coinlab will never see a cent Tongue

Why do you think coin lab is the bad guy here?  If there were contractually binding agreements that coin lab honored and mtgox wasn't then they deserve it no?
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
Wat
Mt Gox should settle the lawsuit in bfl miners. That way coinlab will never see a cent Tongue
legendary
Activity: 2618
Merit: 1022
I just don't know why coinlab is bothering with mtgox. If they COULD make a decent exchange, they could bury gox easily. Just put the damn thing up and go. Mtgox is such a boatload of fail people would dump them in a heartbeat if something better and reliable were available.

they don't need customer account and passwords. That's BS no one should be handing that over anyways.

I know this is kinda mind-boggling

legendary
Activity: 1190
Merit: 1001
I just don't know why coinlab is bothering with mtgox. If they COULD make a decent exchange, they could bury gox easily. Just put the damn thing up and go. Mtgox is such a boatload of fail people would dump them in a heartbeat if something better and reliable were available.

they don't need customer account and passwords. That's BS no one should be handing that over anyways.

Why do real work and program a real exchange when you can just pay lawyers to sue someone else and take their money that they got from doing real work?
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 500
I just don't know why coinlab is bothering with mtgox. If they COULD make a decent exchange, they could bury gox easily. Just put the damn thing up and go. Mtgox is such a boatload of fail people would dump them in a heartbeat if something better and reliable were available.

they don't need customer account and passwords. That's BS no one should be handing that over anyways.
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 501
There is more to Bitcoin than bitcoins.
Coinlab don't need 75 mils, they probably can get the same amount by unloading all their coins before filing the lawsuit, and take them back before withdrawing it.  Cool

so No brainer lawsuit, sell coins fud market buy back = Win....

the law suit you had to have
Except- market is not falling for it by any significant measure.
newbie
Activity: 36
Merit: 0


Now, lets take a look a month or so on. I recommended Don't Go to the US, Tux shot me down.[/b]

Just touch the US and get sued for $75M (not even Gov, by your "partner"),  if that is a legit law suit (pacer has it but I expected to see an Official Court Stamp Somewhere)

BitCoin trades in CNY and CNC now comes out based in CNC, so much for "illegal" in CNY. The whole concept of Illegal in CNY is very different in CNY to West. I mean even Civil law and Common law are quite different.

If anything my position was way too conservative....stay clear of the US....until you are in a really really strong position, and have iron clad indemnity clauses from any US "partner" before you get in bed with them in anyway!!!

I hope I am wrong and some how this law suit is fake, or gets dismissed, but I humbly suggest you need to get some long term strategic planners in there at Gx, if your serious about seeing this all through....



Or, if you do business in the US, you will be expected to abide by any contracts you sign.
full member
Activity: 193
Merit: 100
Does anyone how many users MtGox actually has currently? I'm wondering about the size of the entire Bitcoin market.

According to Bitcoinity market stats,
http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/mtgoxUSD.html

MtGox trades 560 million USD (volume) per 30 days.

At their 0.60%-0.55% transaction fee, that's about 3 million USD per month turnover for MtGox. I assume their monthly expenses are below 100K? Those guys are doing fine.

so it looks like CL went 24 x 3 = 75 or close enough

you can double that I think as they charge on both sides off the trade.  (gox  I mean)
legendary
Activity: 2618
Merit: 1022
Coinlab don't need 75 mils, they probably can get the same amount by unloading all their coins before filing the lawsuit, and take them back before withdrawing it.  Cool

so No brainer lawsuit, sell coins fud market buy back = Win....

the law suit you had to have
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1001
Bitcoin is new, makes sense to hodl.
Coinlab don't need 75 mils, they probably can get the same amount by unloading all their coins before filing the lawsuit, and take them back before withdrawing it.  Cool
legendary
Activity: 2618
Merit: 1022
Does anyone how many users MtGox actually has currently? I'm wondering about the size of the entire Bitcoin market.

According to Bitcoinity market stats,
http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/mtgoxUSD.html

MtGox trades 560 million USD (volume) per 30 days.

At their 0.60%-0.55% transaction fee, that's about 3 million USD per month turnover for MtGox. I assume their monthly expenses are below 100K? Those guys are doing fine.

so it looks like CL went 24 x 3 = 75 or close enough
full member
Activity: 160
Merit: 100
Does anyone how many users MtGox actually has currently? I'm wondering about the size of the entire Bitcoin market.

According to Bitcoinity market stats,
http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/mtgoxUSD.html

MtGox trades 560 million USD (volume) per 30 days.

At their 0.60%-0.55% transaction fee, that's about 3 million USD per month turnover for MtGox. I assume their monthly expenses are below 100K? Those guys are doing fine.
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1001
Bitcoin is new, makes sense to hodl.
Coinlab start off great by showing legal weapon,

Imagine what would happen if us customers were moved to them.

hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
Recent appearance of Vess in media:

http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?play=1&video=3000161954&utm_source=Kazi+Media+Group&utm_medium=Kazi+Media+Group

http://www.bloomberg.com/video/vessenes-discusses-bitcoin-trading-BPTEFzR6Q0G3KzjlZaAxjw.html/

Apart from that fact that he can't sit still (probably just how he is), he's not the worst representative for Bitcoin I've seen.
legendary
Activity: 1190
Merit: 1001
I wonder how they came up with nice figure of $75 Million?

I guess if you can get a couple of mil for spilling your hot coffee, then $75 mil is only fair.

God Bless America  Grin
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000

I hope I am wrong and some how this law suit is fake, or gets dismissed, but I humbly suggest you need to get some long term strategic planners in there at Gx, if your serious about seeing this all through.

Apart from the documents being on PACER, CoinLab has confirmed they've filed suit and Mark has confirmed that he's aware of them filing.
legendary
Activity: 2618
Merit: 1022
Let be realistic CNY is a different social os, fraught with issues,

however, they are less likely to kill an enterprise that makes them money and gives the potential openings in emerging areas and outs they want.

Bitcoin is fully illegal in China, and our negotiations with the local government so far have been without success.

Either way let's be realistic here. Most of our customers are located in countries such as US, Europe and others. Running away to Vietnam or China would make it basically impossible for us to receive or send funds to anyone in those countries.

back to JPY....a nightmare for the US to try and enforce anything at all or at least quickly and not always on the friendliest terms with regional neighbors

Japanese government is friendly to US, and also implements things such as FACTA. Also the US government can pressure any bank worldwide by threatening of cutting them off USD. A bank in any country that can not transfer USD anymore is of no use to anyone. US government has been doing this so far to get accounts held by "terrorists" (people linked to North Korea, mafia, actual terrorists, etc) and while Bitcoin is still too small to get this kind of response, it's a good idea to stay friendly with the US govt. at this point and let Bitcoin grow and gain in legitimacy.


Anyway none of this advice is actually applicable as it would shut us from our customers, makes us unable to hold any USD and potentially limit our transfer solutions to non-conventional methods (liberty reserve, webmoney, etc...).

We are doing our best to see Bitcoin grow as an actual alternative to the existing system, but until Bitcoin is large enough to stand on its own, we need the current system to accept and support us.


Its "fully illegal" because there is a very specific way to approach things in china,  and its not by asking if it legal from some CNY govt dept in the first instance, you are almost always going to get a "no" because some relatively low level functionary (who got there by being conservative)...that first official rebuke acts like a red light to every other fiefdom in cny

You have to really know who to get your proposal seen by and it does not start by getting rulling's from govts

it starts in a much more sideaways manner by finding the right local quasi govt "company" to partner with, perhaps changing later...and then going from there, you would not even start out as $btc exchange but IT transaction consultancy.

and you wouldn't be doing it in manner to shut out anyone, if you set it up right....

anyhow...the scope of what your doing if you believe in what you are doing will come to fruition requires a lot more seeding and thought about where you backups and bases are...and the implications of what you are doing....you may force the hand of the people who can quickly shut you down.

sure it all "look" great going into the know USA/CAD western environment but that the genius of the system


Now, lets take a look a month or so on. I recommended Don't Go to the US, Tux shot me down.


Just touch the US and get sued for $75M (not even Gov, by your "partner"),  if that is a legit law suit (pacer has it but I expected to see an Official Court Stamp Somewhere)

BitCoin trades in CNY and CNC now comes out based in CNC, so much for "illegal" in CNY. The whole concept of Illegal in CNY is very different in CNY to West. I mean even Civil law and Common law are quite different.

If anything my position was way too conservative....stay clear of the US....until you are in a really really strong position, and have iron clad indemnity clauses from any US "partner" before you get in bed with them in anyway!!!

I hope I am wrong and some how this law suit is fake, or gets dismissed, but I humbly suggest you need to get some long term strategic planners in there at Gx, if your serious about seeing this all through....

hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
[...]

I honestly can't believe what I'm seeing and reading. I'm lost for words.

Madness!

Would you care to elaborate - was it one of your famous humorous pennings ?  Wink

The very last line of your post I quoted, coupled with the recent $75M lawsuit.

Yes I can see that. I had many questions for Vess, and I can understand that some of them seemed offputting and alienating to him, but really - I would have nothing else for the community than successful exchanges, I really don't want drama to unfold like this. And besides, I think if you have good intentions, you have nothing to fear from people asking hard questions. Then your ACTIONS over time will prove that you're trustworthy. For what it's worth, Mark has proven over time that he is to be trusted, and I do trust him. But as for Vess I had many questions, and now this..
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