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Topic: [OFFICIAL]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading - page 105. (Read 723903 times)

newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
Well low rates are good for traders. There is too much of supply atm so the rates are very low. But i guess when demand increases and rates shoot up there might be some shortage but it won't last long, market should stabilize it.

It's terrible for traders. Right when you hit buy to jump in on the next rally, there will be no liquidity to lend from. You end up having to pay XXX% (annualized) for a leveraged position which eats into your P/L. It amplifies the time value of your position, immensely. For example, if the market trends sideways for a little bit, you'll be paying out the ear for the time of holding an outrageously expensive loan.

It's a ticking time bomb, BFX really doesn't understand liquidity and the importance of stability in fixed income markets. Things like interest rate risk really shouldn't factor into traders' decisions.
sr. member
Activity: 248
Merit: 251
Well low rates are good for traders. There is too much of supply atm so the rates are very low. But i guess when demand increases and rates shoot up there might be some shortage but it won't last long, market should stabilize it.
member
Activity: 63
Merit: 14
Can you explain what is the problem with lending? I see people talk about it a lot but i didn't understand (i only trade, not lend).

In a nutshell:
Rates go down more and more. Soon, there will be better options to invest the dollars in. That will lead to lenders withdrawing their money from BFX, leading to fewer available swap funds for margin traders to use.

All that is no problem under current market circumstances, there will still be enough available.

But as soon as demand for funds increases (i.e. when volatility increases or the bear market turns into a bull market), there will be WAY more demand for swaps. But not enough funds available to be lent. That will lead to traders being unable to use leveraged trading until swap-money comes back to BFX, which could take quite some time.
That will make traders unhappy and will make BFX miss a lot of fees from traders/lenders. Possibly traders will leave for other sites where they can use leverage in volatile times.

They should probably plan for a time with high demand.
sr. member
Activity: 248
Merit: 251
Can you explain what is the problem with lending? I see people talk about it a lot but i didn't understand (i only trade, not lend).
newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
total swap at $21.8 million but rates continue to slide - I guess someone just lend about $500k at 0.02+ (6.2% after fees)

things are getting ridiculous

Things will get interesting when they compete with bonds. Right now, I think it's only a combination of people who don't want to move USD from Bitfinex (awaiting BTC entry) or folks who haven't moved their money, yet. Still no word from BFX. Last I heard "they're working on a solution", lol. But we're still just greedy lenders, right? They're going to be screwed when no one will margin trade because there's no liquidity left.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 250
OKCoin only allows large accounts to do P2P lending - they took that ability away from the small time investors.

Interesting, I will take a looks at their site.  I can remember when bitfinex interest was much different.
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 500
total swap at $21.8 million but rates continue to slide - I guess someone just lend about $500k at 0.02+ (6.2% after fees)

things are getting ridiculous
hero member
Activity: 697
Merit: 501
I would also mention, BFX is no longer the only game in town when it comes to P2P margin lending.  And the other sites doing it don't have any kind of FRR to manipulate the market.  I've always been a huge fan of BFX's, but business is business, and if they don't do something to fix the broken system they have in place with FRR, I'm pretty sure at least some of my $ will be moving on soon.
Great to hear another exchange is getting into p2p lending.  I just messaged OKCoin and they are charging 20% fees on earned interest.  I asked for a justification for the high rate in comparison to Bitfinex, but they didn't offer anything. 
Considering I think 15% is a little high already I may think twice about sending money over to OKcoin in the short term.
Peace

What are the current lending rates?
Currently the order book is non existent.  There are no bids.  Let's try to keep this thread on the topic of Bitfinex again here.
legendary
Activity: 1870
Merit: 1023
Bot selling 0.1 BTC every 6 seconds or so.
newbie
Activity: 47
Merit: 0
I would also mention, BFX is no longer the only game in town when it comes to P2P margin lending.  And the other sites doing it don't have any kind of FRR to manipulate the market.  I've always been a huge fan of BFX's, but business is business, and if they don't do something to fix the broken system they have in place with FRR, I'm pretty sure at least some of my $ will be moving on soon.
Great to hear another exchange is getting into p2p lending.  I just messaged OKCoin and they are charging 20% fees on earned interest.  I asked for a justification for the high rate in comparison to Bitfinex, but they didn't offer anything. 
Considering I think 15% is a little high already I may think twice about sending money over to OKcoin in the short term.
Peace

What are the current lending rates?
sr. member
Activity: 288
Merit: 250
ManualMiner
how to get old trades from bitfinex by api?
https://api.bitfinex.com/v1/trades/BTCUSD?timestamp=1419929037


it always fetches 1000 trades from now to history....

BITFINEX PLZ, WOULD YOU MIND TO CLARIFY, I ALREADY ASKED A FEW TIMES

Huh
thx
newbie
Activity: 9
Merit: 0
can someone confirm if OKCoin reopen their P2P lending to everyone?  Or is it just to institution depositing a ridiculous sum - last I ask, they want $50 million CNY!!!

ok, just signed on, seems like they reopen the feature - the loan book is quite shallow

fee + the insurance is quite high

You are confusing P2P lending with P2P corporate lending. P2P corporate provide the large amount of the margin liquidity for a fixed return price, intended for high-risk margin traders. The P2P lending OB covers the "small-trader" market and thus require less money  to get in.
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 500
can someone confirm if OKCoin reopen their P2P lending to everyone?  Or is it just to institution depositing a ridiculous sum - last I ask, they want $50 million CNY!!!

ok, just signed on, seems like they reopen the feature - the loan book is quite shallow

fee + the insurance is quite high
hero member
Activity: 697
Merit: 501
I would also mention, BFX is no longer the only game in town when it comes to P2P margin lending.  And the other sites doing it don't have any kind of FRR to manipulate the market.  I've always been a huge fan of BFX's, but business is business, and if they don't do something to fix the broken system they have in place with FRR, I'm pretty sure at least some of my $ will be moving on soon.
Great to hear another exchange is getting into p2p lending.  I just messaged OKCoin and they are charging 20% fees on earned interest.  I asked for a justification for the high rate in comparison to Bitfinex, but they didn't offer anything. 
Considering I think 15% is a little high already I may think twice about sending money over to OKcoin in the short term.
Peace
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 500
OKCoin only allows large accounts to do P2P lending - they took that ability away from the small time investors.
full member
Activity: 145
Merit: 100
I do Stuff, and stuff.....
Care to mention competitors? I know BTC-E offers margin trading, but I think they lend out client funds without their knowledge.

OKCoin.com is the most interesting right now.  They are just getting it off the ground, so its slow, but they are working on getting their API up and running, so MarginBot will be supporting it soon.  At this point, their traffic is a bit too low to be useful, but I think this will likely change, especially if BFX doesn't quickly realize how badly FRR is hurting their platform, and people start moving their margin investments to greener pastures.
newbie
Activity: 9
Merit: 0
OKcoin ( .com ) recently launched but without API, and the order book is still small. If you happen to have connections in China there's OKcoin ( .cn ) with a 700k order book and the HUOBI Lend for BTC with 1100 BTC OB. That is outside corporate investing directly with exchange sites, but it is reserved for very large account and CN firms.

Hope it helped.

PS :. On a side note i think that BFX must implement a scaling fees and a minimum ask lend. Seeing less than .01 in the OB is kinda depressing.
newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
I would also mention, BFX is no longer the only game in town when it comes to P2P margin lending.  And the other sites doing it don't have any kind of FRR to manipulate the market.  I've always been a huge fan of BFX's, but business is business, and if they don't do something to fix the broken system they have in place with FRR, I'm pretty sure at least some of my $ will be moving on soon.

Care to mention competitors? I know BTC-E offers margin trading, but I think they lend out client funds without their knowledge.
full member
Activity: 145
Merit: 100
I do Stuff, and stuff.....
I would also mention, BFX is no longer the only game in town when it comes to P2P margin lending.  And the other sites doing it don't have any kind of FRR to manipulate the market.  I've always been a huge fan of BFX's, but business is business, and if they don't do something to fix the broken system they have in place with FRR, I'm pretty sure at least some of my $ will be moving on soon.
newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
And ultimately, if it causes lenders to leave, it's a bad idea. The whole point of all this is to provide a way for margin traders to borrow USD. If there's no lenders then there won't be liquidity when the borrowers need it. BFX needs to do something soon. The easiest would be to outright disable FRR, however that's a temporary solution at best.

BFX are of the expressed and understandable opinion that they're not in the business of guaranteeing a return to swap providers.

BFX are great at demonstrating they have no idea how markets work. This debate isn't about guaranteeing returns to swap providers. It's about providing a fair market place that maximizes participants.


If people leave then the remaining pool of funds will become more expensive to use... if that happens to coincide with a sudden reason for increased demand then maybe it'll get a little crazy before those who left get themselves organised to return. As someone putting money into swaps I somewhat welcome the idea; even just one mad week of stupidly high rates would renew my flagging spirits.

That's a solution!? Stupidly high rates are what causes margin traders to leave. It should be an appropriate and consistent rate. Right now it's a violent feast/famine cycle. What causes that? Lack of lending liquidity. When a whale clicks buy on margin, they suck up all the liquidity driving up rates to ludicrous levels for an extremely temporary time.


Whatever happens, it'll sort itself out in the end - if the demand is there without the supply to fill it then rates will rise until they're sufficiently enticing, even if there's some "stickiness" in both directions (people hanging on past the point where they start to feel unhappy with the return, or taking time to arrive as and when rates come back up).

No. It won't. If it would "sort itself out in the end", it would be sorting itself out now. The situation's getting worse and worse everyday. BFX should be encouraging lenders for when there's actually a bull run and they'll be needed.
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