Topic: [OFFICIAL]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading - page 149. (Read 723903 times)

http://www.coinwarz.com/cryptocurrency/?sha256hr=1000.00

IF these numbers are anywhere near accurate then it appears that at CURRENT difficulty you need about 60 days to make 1 BTC with 1 TH/s, so 3 months would give about 1.5 BTC - and the market maker at BFX is selling these for 2 BTC right now.

I guess if you expect the price to go down more than 1%/day then why not. These contracts are clearly overpriced right now. What is a bit scary here is where do these TH on the askside come from? Apparently a pool market maker. a) why would they sell their TH instead of mining? because they expect higher profit from it. b) do they have to sell if they see that there's a lot of shorts? with BTC you can get outside BTC in, if you have a mining rig then there is still no way to "deposit" TH into BFX right so the supply side is basically in the hands of 1 party. What is introduced to the market can be traded around but there is 1 party controlling the supply.

I also have a hard time understanding why a short would have to pay dividends, if there is actual TH behind this then that dividend should come from the pool and the borrower only pays interest.

If these were naked shorts of TH then there would be no pool to create dividend and the shorts would have to pay that dividend since they sold a contract with dividend of a TH. Shorts would NOT have to pay interest in this case since they would not be borrowing anything.

As I understand the announcement you pay interest & dividend if you short TH and that makes no sense to me.

Looks like someone is demanding TH1 swap at 1%/day and getting it.

This is something I do not understand at all. If these are in fact mining contracts on a pool then this pool pays the dividend in the form of BTC. Why then would shorts also have to pay the dividend, doesn't that create a situation where there is 2x dividend?

shorts pay the dividend, look at the announcement page.  you not only pay the dividend plus the interest!  yike.

I'm confused about what happens to dividends when you short.

It seems to me that if you borrow a stock or contract, that you then receive the dividend and have to hand it over to the person you are borrowing from.  It this correct?

For the TH1 contract, I'm wondering if the cost of shorting it is just 1) the swap rate or 2) the swap rate plus a dividend.

I think USD swap interest rates are on a lower edge. Not something spectacular, but still OK. Anything bellow 0.04% is a signal to back off, for sure.

=b

centering numbers don't make people money (both the platform and the traders)

So they've been ignoring my very simple and twice repeated request to stop centering numbers (https://www.bitfinex.com/credit - number of swap contracts) and to properly left-align them so they can be readable, and instead are coming up with crazy new features?

Priorities...

For TH1, when it's listed at a price of 2BTC - are you really then just buying a mining bond (instead of 'perpetual', a fix term - 3 month) with a hashing power of 1TH for 2 BTC?

Orderbook page for TH1 on bfxdata.com:

http://bfxdata.com/orderbooks/th1btc.php

Swaps pages / Today Page entries are next

regards Bjorn

There's already people offering swaps at 0.49% per day.

So how can we calculate the expected return of TH1?

Maybe its slightly negative to Bitfinex from a systemic perspective, but I see these things as a net positive for the bitcoin economy in general. For awhile now it looked like mining was going to get too concentrated with a handful of big operators in China and Iceland. With exchanges getting into the game and allowing people to buy hashing power, we are getting decentralization again.

It's funny. Because when BFX goes silent for some time they always come up with something new. It was the same last time so I expect them to come in here in the next few hours.

And you are of course right. This is no solution to a problem. It's opening a new market of completely speculative nature. It's like some weird futures contract market simply build to increase the number and intensity of speculators and let make BFX money on the fees. It's also the first product they offer on their own which is slightly worrisome for me as it systematically increases the chance for their business to fail.

Weird thing to invest developing time into.
This looks to me like a solution without a problem.
Maybe I'm too shortsighted here though.
Trading Bitcoin is speculative enough for me, I'll pass with speculating on the difficulty (that's what this is about, right?)

I would prefer BitFinex to work out the known problems instead, and to have a direct and steady customerrelation again..

Ente

Let me get this straight. Does one unit represent 100 TH/s or 1 TH/s? How can 100 THs be offered at 2 btc atm?
EDIT: Ah, I see. It's 1 TH/s.

Probably the interest charged on holding the contracts would be also close to what they should yield.

E.g. 1 contract probably yields 1 BTC in the 3 months. If you think that it would earn even more, you go long, if you think it earns less, you allow others to borrow it and earn ~1 BTC in interest.

I am still not so sure how this would work in practice, in the end though I see it as a wasted effort.

"Margin: TH1 can be borrowed and sold short. We will start out with a 25% Initial Margin Requirement, but we see that going as low as 12.5% in the near future."
LOL
Thinking about immidiately shorting the shit out of this.

Wow... Bitfinex... You guys are by FAR the most innovative exchange out there...

Regarding the mining contracts,
First question that comes to mind, if its described as a depleting resource (which makes sense) ... And your allowed to short the contract... Isn't this a guaranteed winner???

What am I missing here???

WTF?! Why trade mining contracts in BTC only and why trade them in the first place? The development ressources for this stuff could have been better invested in other things...

Dafuq is going on???

BFX, explain yourself!

EDIT: OH fuck me, what?? ??
https://www.bitfinex.com/pages/announcements