[OFFICIAL]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading - page 260.

unclescrooge

hero member

Activity: 868

Merit: 1000

Quote from: blueberry on February 10, 2014, 07:40:00 AM

I propose a solution to the problem in the future:

One thing that would help would be for Bitfinex to implement a circuit breaker like they have in the stockmarkets, where where trading is automatically halted for a predetermined period of time (10 to 30 minutes) when the market moves more than say 10%. By the time trading has restarted, panic would have subsided and the market would have become normalized avoiding a flash crash.

Add this the terms and faqs so traders will be aware in advance and then cannot complain when trading halts.

This is a good idea, thank you.

I don't know what users expected, but please be aware that trading can be halted if the conditions require it.

Thanks
Raphael

BitBits

full member

Activity: 144

Merit: 100

Quote from: alpha492 on February 10, 2014, 07:34:01 AM

Quote from: urwhatuknow on February 10, 2014, 07:28:19 AM

Quote from: russokai on February 10, 2014, 07:25:50 AM

Quote from: unclescrooge on February 10, 2014, 07:01:42 AM

Dear users,

The trading engine is currently stopped due to the recent volatility and the fact that we exhausted our funds on Bitstamp in this critical moment.

We are waiting for new deposit to hit our Bitstamp account, after which we will resume the trades.

have a good day
Raphael

You do know that this is going to happen over and over and over again when the market has some volatility? That outtage just cost me $8000 in profits and I'm sure many lost even more...just not acceptable. You guys need a better system with your site.

Feel free to post any suggestion.
We will pay you if they make sense.
Otherwise just stop talking nonsense.

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team

As I said in my post, reversing trades in the only viable option for your exchange at this point. I think how you handle this could have serious ramifications, and I know if a reasonable conclusion can't be reached in this instance I probably won't be trading on your exchange in the future.

Thanks and good luck

Why reversing, on what basis? These were big sales, they drove the price down. Exactly the same thing happened on BTC-e at about the same time and they also dipped to 100. Look, lost ONLY those people who made wrong predictions for their positions. You are asking to reverse your own decision and that is not likely to happen.

unclescrooge

hero member

Activity: 868

Merit: 1000

Quote from: wilfried on February 10, 2014, 07:36:04 AM

hy, thats ok, but didnt giancarlo some days ago did say that you only will halt, if htere was a glitch/manipulation, but not if a market crash happens? same thing imho happened with the bistamp-fee-integration, first you anncounced it, then still 0.35% fees were deducted from trades. that seems a bit inconsistent

Well, in this case, there was no glitch, everything worked as intended, but this is not the point. The point is that if we did not halted the trading engine, the price would have go to almost 0 as all positions would be liquidated.

Halting the trading, like it is done on lots of other exchanges/markets on certain conditions, allows the price to stabilized and stopped the liquidations "on chain".

I know it's annoying, but this had to be done.

Thank you
Raphael

the_viper

member

Activity: 315

Merit: 10

So if trades executed @ $100 etc etc were cancelled I would like my market sell (price was 550 at time of execution) but executed at 650 to be rolled back as well.

My tx history tells better started at 639 and ended up closing at 668.

Sure that looks like a normal trade someone in their right mind would make Roll Eyes

blueberry

member

Activity: 110

Merit: 10

I propose a solution to the problem in the future:

One thing that would help would be for Bitfinex to implement a circuit breaker like they have in the stockmarkets, where where trading is automatically halted for a predetermined period of time (10 to 30 minutes) when the market moves more than say 10%. By the time trading has restarted, panic would have subsided and the market would have become normalized helping to avoid a flash crash. Perhaps any traders accounts with a pending margin liquidation can be frozen for a while to prevent a liquidation domino effect.

Add this the terms and faqs so traders will be aware in advance and then cannot complain when trading halts.

btcdrak

legendary

Activity: 1064

Merit: 1000

Quote from: russokai on February 10, 2014, 07:25:50 AM

Quote from: unclescrooge on February 10, 2014, 07:01:42 AM

Dear users,

The trading engine is currently stopped due to the recent volatility and the fact that we exhausted our funds on Bitstamp in this critical moment.

We are waiting for new deposit to hit our Bitstamp account, after which we will resume the trades.

have a good day
Raphael

You do know that this is going to happen over and over and over again when the market has some volatility? That outtage just cost me $8000 in profits and I'm sure many lost even more...just not acceptable. You guys need a better system with your site.

For those of you who have experienced this twice now, fool you if you get burned again by Bitfinex. These are the warning shots. MtGox fired them months ago. The wise will move platforms.

MAbtc

hero member

Activity: 826

Merit: 508

Quote from: wilfried on February 10, 2014, 07:36:04 AM

same thing imho happened with the bistamp-fee-integration, first you anncounced it, then still 0.35% fees were deducted from trades. that seems a bit inconsistent

Yes, I was confused about this as well. I have still been seeing .35% fees on my trades.

cw92

member

Activity: 66

Merit: 10

Quote from: urwhatuknow on February 10, 2014, 07:28:19 AM

Quote from: russokai on February 10, 2014, 07:25:50 AM

Quote from: unclescrooge on February 10, 2014, 07:01:42 AM

Dear users,

The trading engine is currently stopped due to the recent volatility and the fact that we exhausted our funds on Bitstamp in this critical moment.

We are waiting for new deposit to hit our Bitstamp account, after which we will resume the trades.

have a good day
Raphael

You do know that this is going to happen over and over and over again when the market has some volatility? That outtage just cost me $8000 in profits and I'm sure many lost even more...just not acceptable. You guys need a better system with your site.

Feel free to post any suggestion.
We will pay you if they make sense.
Otherwise just stop talking nonsense.

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team

I have what I consider to be a legitimate suggestion. I've been trading here for a while, and have always remained loyal to the exchange and refrained from joining in the BFX bashing in this thread whenever things go wrong. However, with that said, I've also lost very significant amounts of fiat/btc on numerous occasions due to problems that were always on Bitfinex's end. I've put up with this because I legitimately appreciate the service you're attempting to provide, but this past week has been a little ridiculous (between the two trading halts I'm out close to 5 figures). My suggestion is to consider refunding trading fees for a given period; this would serve both to compensate losses on our end, and to regain credibility for Bitfinex by making it clear that the exchange is not attempting to profit from our losses.

hyphymikey

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 1000

Quote from: unclescrooge on February 10, 2014, 07:31:39 AM

Quote from: russokai on February 10, 2014, 07:27:47 AM

Quote from: unclescrooge on February 10, 2014, 07:25:41 AM

I'd just like to point out that if we did not have stopped the trading engine, the cascading effect of liquidations would have been terrible (just look at the charts already).

So we DID make the right choice in halting the trading engine to avoid this situation.

One day the Bitcoin market will become mature enough to support this level of volume, right now it isn't;

THanks for your comprehension
Raphael

So why didn't Bitstamp go down? It was up the entire time that you "halted" trading (without warning).

It's not the Bitcoin market that isn't "mature" enough...it is Bitfinex that is immature.

Bitstamp is not a margin trading website, they don't have liquidations /margin calls, and don't care if the price goes to 0 because they don't lose anything.

On Bitfinex on the other hand, there are leveraged positions, and liquidations triggered can and have a cascading effect on a very volatile market, and if there is not enough volume to support it, we CAN take the price to 0 and lose millions of lenders money

Halting the trading engine is maybe annoying, but it's the right thing to do (and I must say it happens on all sort of market).

Thank you
Raphael

How do lenders lose money if the people they are lending to's position automatically closes BEFORE they can no longer repay the lender?

F-bernanke

sr. member

Activity: 308

Merit: 250

The bitfinex website is a very complex piece of art, and I just wanted to show my support for you guys running this site. Keeping everybody happy is very difficult to do, especially when there are teenagers very angry that they missed a $10 trade that should not have happened in the first place.

You guys handled this well, Thanks!

wilfried

sr. member

Activity: 288

Merit: 250

ManualMiner

Quote from: unclescrooge on February 10, 2014, 07:31:39 AM

Quote from: russokai on February 10, 2014, 07:27:47 AM

Quote from: unclescrooge on February 10, 2014, 07:25:41 AM

I'd just like to point out that if we did not have stopped the trading engine, the cascading effect of liquidations would have been terrible (just look at the charts already).

So we DID make the right choice in halting the trading engine to avoid this situation.

One day the Bitcoin market will become mature enough to support this level of volume, right now it isn't;

THanks for your comprehension
Raphael

So why didn't Bitstamp go down? It was up the entire time that you "halted" trading (without warning).

It's not the Bitcoin market that isn't "mature" enough...it is Bitfinex that is immature.

Bitstamp is not a margin trading website, they don't have liquidations /margin calls, and don't care if the price goes to 0 because they don't lose anything.

On Bitfinex on the other hand, there are leveraged positions, and liquidations triggered can and have a cascading effect on a very volatile market, and if there is not enough volume to support it, we CAN take the price to 0 and lose millions of lenders money

Halting the trading engine is maybe annoying, but it's the right thing to do (and I must say it happens on all sort of market).

Thank you
Raphael

hy, thats ok, but didnt giancarlo some days ago did say that you only will halt, if htere was a glitch/manipulation, but not if a market crash happens? same thing imho happened with the bistamp-fee-integration, first you anncounced it, then still 0.35% fees were deducted from trades. that seems a bit inconsistent

Indamuck

hero member

Activity: 1120

Merit: 554

Quote from: urwhatuknow on February 10, 2014, 07:22:04 AM

Quote from: Indamuck on February 10, 2014, 07:15:39 AM

Quote from: unclescrooge on February 10, 2014, 07:01:42 AM

Dear users,

The trading engine is currently stopped due to the recent volatility and the fact that we exhausted our funds on Bitstamp in this critical moment.

We are waiting for new deposit to hit our Bitstamp account, after which we will resume the trades.

have a good day
Raphael

This event (Mt. Gox news) was anticipated since late Friday Asia time. Did you not have time to prepare for it, or just not paying attention?

We don't have a crystal ball.
If you have one please send us your CV and we will employ you.
Prepare for what?
How many bitcoins is enough?
20k, 30k?
Are just blowing hot air out of your mouth or you forgot to switch your brain on?

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team

You cannot afford me. Let it be ... before you embarrass yourself further. (Someone with some sense keep this guy away from the keyboards. Lol ....)

DeaDTerra

donator

Activity: 1064

Merit: 1000

Quote from: unclescrooge on February 10, 2014, 07:31:39 AM

Quote from: russokai on February 10, 2014, 07:27:47 AM

Quote from: unclescrooge on February 10, 2014, 07:25:41 AM

I'd just like to point out that if we did not have stopped the trading engine, the cascading effect of liquidations would have been terrible (just look at the charts already).

So we DID make the right choice in halting the trading engine to avoid this situation.

One day the Bitcoin market will become mature enough to support this level of volume, right now it isn't;

THanks for your comprehension
Raphael

So why didn't Bitstamp go down? It was up the entire time that you "halted" trading (without warning).

It's not the Bitcoin market that isn't "mature" enough...it is Bitfinex that is immature.

Bitstamp is not a margin trading website, they don't have liquidations /margin calls, and don't care if the price goes to 0 because they don't lose anything.

On Bitfinex on the other hand, there are leveraged positions, and liquidations triggered can and have a cascading effect on a very volatile market, and if there is not enough volume to support it, we CAN take the price to 0 and lose millions of lenders money

Halting the trading engine is maybe annoying, but it's the right thing to do (and I must say it happens on all sort of market).

Thank you
Raphael

I agree, look at any serious exchange in the world.
They stop/lock the market all the time to keep it from going bonkers especially when something is not working as intended.
//DeaDTerra

unclescrooge

hero member

Activity: 868

Merit: 1000

Quote from: hyphymikey on February 10, 2014, 07:31:32 AM

Quote from: ledmaniak on February 10, 2014, 07:29:18 AM

Bitfinex,

When closing a short, I would not expect you need bitcoins for that because you are buying them back. Why did trading for the short positions not continue? No fiat money available at bitstamp/bfx? From what I read, most people lost because the couldn't close their short..

+1

And how exactly would lenders lose money from the situation you "halted"?

It all depends on the price: if the first bid to liquidate a positon opened at 700 is 100 USD/BTC or less, there is just not enough money for the trader to pay back the lenders = money lost.

Bitstamp liquidity add some depth to the liquidation process, thus why we NEED it.

Hope it explains things

Raphael

Hunyadi

legendary

Activity: 1281

Merit: 1000

☑ ♟ ☐ ♚

Quote from: unclescrooge on February 10, 2014, 07:31:39 AM

Quote from: russokai on February 10, 2014, 07:27:47 AM

Quote from: unclescrooge on February 10, 2014, 07:25:41 AM

I'd just like to point out that if we did not have stopped the trading engine, the cascading effect of liquidations would have been terrible (just look at the charts already).

So we DID make the right choice in halting the trading engine to avoid this situation.

One day the Bitcoin market will become mature enough to support this level of volume, right now it isn't;

THanks for your comprehension
Raphael

So why didn't Bitstamp go down? It was up the entire time that you "halted" trading (without warning).

It's not the Bitcoin market that isn't "mature" enough...it is Bitfinex that is immature.

Bitstamp is not a margin trading website, they don't have liquidations /margin calls, and don't care if the price goes to 0 because they don't lose anything.

On Bitfinex on the other hand, there are leveraged positions, and liquidations triggered can and have a cascading effect on a very volatile market, and if there is not enough volume to support it, we CAN take the price to 0 and lose millions of lenders money

Halting the trading engine is maybe annoying, but it's the right thing to do (and I must say it happens on all sort of market).

Thank you
Raphael

IMO right decision.

alpha492

full member

Activity: 195

Merit: 100

Quote from: urwhatuknow on February 10, 2014, 07:28:19 AM

Quote from: russokai on February 10, 2014, 07:25:50 AM

Quote from: unclescrooge on February 10, 2014, 07:01:42 AM

Dear users,

The trading engine is currently stopped due to the recent volatility and the fact that we exhausted our funds on Bitstamp in this critical moment.

We are waiting for new deposit to hit our Bitstamp account, after which we will resume the trades.

have a good day
Raphael

You do know that this is going to happen over and over and over again when the market has some volatility? That outtage just cost me $8000 in profits and I'm sure many lost even more...just not acceptable. You guys need a better system with your site.

Feel free to post any suggestion.
We will pay you if they make sense.
Otherwise just stop talking nonsense.

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team

As I said in my post, reversing trades in the only viable option for your exchange at this point. I think how you handle this could have serious ramifications, and I know if a reasonable conclusion can't be reached in this instance I probably won't be trading on your exchange in the future.

Thanks and good luck

DeaDTerra

donator

Activity: 1064

Merit: 1000

Quote from: urwhatuknow on February 10, 2014, 07:28:19 AM

Quote from: russokai on February 10, 2014, 07:25:50 AM

Quote from: unclescrooge on February 10, 2014, 07:01:42 AM

Dear users,

The trading engine is currently stopped due to the recent volatility and the fact that we exhausted our funds on Bitstamp in this critical moment.

We are waiting for new deposit to hit our Bitstamp account, after which we will resume the trades.

have a good day
Raphael

You do know that this is going to happen over and over and over again when the market has some volatility? That outtage just cost me $8000 in profits and I'm sure many lost even more...just not acceptable. You guys need a better system with your site.

Feel free to post any suggestion.
We will pay you if they make sense.
Otherwise just stop talking nonsense.

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team

I have an suggestion

Switch to a market maker fee structure on BitFinex and increase the Bitstamp fee/decrease the Bitfinex fee.
This should encourage users to use BitFinex and limit orders instead of only using Bitstamp liquidity and market orders.
This should reduce the friction in your cash flow management and you should become less dependent on Bitstamp.

Just a suggestion Cheesy

//DeaDTerra

unclescrooge

hero member

Activity: 868

Merit: 1000

Quote from: russokai on February 10, 2014, 07:27:47 AM

Quote from: unclescrooge on February 10, 2014, 07:25:41 AM

I'd just like to point out that if we did not have stopped the trading engine, the cascading effect of liquidations would have been terrible (just look at the charts already).

So we DID make the right choice in halting the trading engine to avoid this situation.

One day the Bitcoin market will become mature enough to support this level of volume, right now it isn't;

THanks for your comprehension
Raphael

So why didn't Bitstamp go down? It was up the entire time that you "halted" trading (without warning).

It's not the Bitcoin market that isn't "mature" enough...it is Bitfinex that is immature.

Bitstamp is not a margin trading website, they don't have liquidations /margin calls, and don't care if the price goes to 0 because they don't lose anything.

On Bitfinex on the other hand, there are leveraged positions, and liquidations triggered can and have a cascading effect on a very volatile market, and if there is not enough volume to support it, we CAN take the price to 0 and lose millions of lenders money

Halting the trading engine is maybe annoying, but it's the right thing to do (and I must say it happens on all sort of market).

Thank you
Raphael

hyphymikey

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 1000

Quote from: ledmaniak on February 10, 2014, 07:29:18 AM

Bitfinex,

When closing a short, I would not expect you need bitcoins for that because you are buying them back. Why did trading for the short positions not continue? No fiat money available at bitstamp/bfx? From what I read, most people lost because the couldn't close their short..

+1

And how exactly would lenders lose money from the situation you "halted"?

BitBits

full member

Activity: 144

Merit: 100

Giancarlo, you do not need to be THAT rude. Your emotions are understood, but still...

Topic: [OFFICIAL]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading - page 260. (Read 723903 times)