Topic: OgNasty Ponzi passthrough and ponzi fans.. BTC losses everywhere he goes - page 11. (Read 7999 times)

After a subpoena, exhibit 3 is apparently an export that was done by pirateat40 which contains raw data of "account histories" beginning in 2012, according to the document posted by TwitchySeal.

I believe exhibit 3 is here: https://www.gwern.net/docs/bitcoin/pirateat40/gov.uscourts.txed.146063.4.8.pdf

The "balance" is odd on OgNasty's page towards the end..but if you calculate the totals listed for deposits/withdrawals/payments:
deposits: 3,890.26
withdrawals: -3,948.00
payments: 2,540.63

I'm not sure what to take away from this... this appears to be actual evidence put into the case, but whether pirateat40 had any reason to screw with the data before sending it, I don't know.

I am not really opposed to bringing some of these matters to light based on possible new evidence, even though I hardly know shit about a lot of the underlying case.  Nonetheless, if there is new evidence, we cannot keep considering the looking into the matter would merely be a personal vendetta or fishing expedition. 

Sure, having victims would seem to be some kind of necessity in terms of considering impact or even if there would be a damage related remedy, but, they might not even know enough details of the underlying situation to realize that they were damaged, and I keep coming back to the idea that the  extent of damage would have some reflection of the dollar value of the asset at the time of the damage, even if the asset had subsequently appreciated in price (which we know to be the case with bitcoin). 

I see most of the time in 2012, BTC prices were around $4 but towards the end of the time period in question, BTC price went up to $16 before coming back down again to $10-$12 for the rest of the year.   

There seems to be some evidence that OGNasty may have paid off the bigger of the investors, so the ONLY remaining ones would have had smaller investments. 

Of course, in retrospect, we can see that it was a ponzi shceme and too good to be true, but when people are caught up in ponzi schemes they sometimes will still participate based on their considerations that they are not going to be the last person out, so they kind of already know the risk, or could be presumed to be sufficiently taking on their own risks. 

So some of the victims might have been reluctant to make any claims, even if they did not get paid back any of their investment, because there could be some feelings of guilt about making any kinds of claims in such an obvious too good to be true situation, but even if everyone kind of knew it was a ponzi scheme that would not remove fiduciary responsibility from anyone serving as a middleman, including if there was fraud, misrepresentation or conversion that is just discovered. 

There might be plenty of investors who don't give too many shits about chances that they took on a few hundred dollars, so they don't really want to rock the boat if they got paid back some of their amount, given that they knew the whole thing was bullshit, but if they later found out that there were breaches of fiduciary responsibility, fraud, misrepresentation or conversion, then that could raise their concerns (or change their perspectives). 

I still don't believe that any reasonable remedy would purely measure damages in BTC... but we cannot really know circumstances, if we cannot pindown any actual cases of actual victims, can we?  On the other hand, there still could be conclusions of wrongdoing, based on the new evidence, even if the exact victim circumstances are not clarified?

I don't think "Exhibit 3" has even that, at least I wasn't able to find it:

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/4386354/securities-and-exchange-commission-v-shavers/

Definitely not a witch hunt..
Case closed..
/thread

Nobody is talking about the "victims," aka willing Ponzi participants, because nobody cares about that aspect. Its just interesting information that was recently brought to light. Don't know why you're getting all bent out of shape over it.

Do you tell OgNasty - regarding this thread - that too? Basically a case of "what goes around, comes around" isn't it...?

And time to stop has long passed (in both threads). Even theymos asked nicely:


But by now I - personally - (and I suspect a lot of other users too) cannot take either "side" too seriously any more... too bad.

No part.

Literally nobody is alleging that victims are coming forward.

Just alleging that he lied to past investors and stole their money knowing they would assume someone else stole it.





It's driven by facts.  Court records, block chain transactions and forum archives.  I understand you don't consider these things 'proof' but if you change your mind I encourage you to check them out by going back a few pages and reading up.  It's all there.

What part of any of this changes the fact that there are no victims seeking redress and this is purely driven by clear long term motives to target OGNasty rather than to seek any kind of restorative justice?



Protecting OG from what? Mobs of midget dicks like you with serious inferiority complexes along with other comorbid compulsive psychological conditions? That tale you have spun about why I suggested you would like China is quite entertaining. Not the suggestion so much as you probably believe that those mental gymnastics make sense to anyone other than you. I am not sure why if I was corrupt and wanted to pay people off I would suggest you would want to live there, but your refractory projections usually don't make any logical sense now do they? After all the point is to just topic slide with horse shit until people get frustrated tired of trying to decipher the truth now isn't it? That is a game of volume not quality or logic.

You aren't interested in preserving the law or any kind of justice, all you are concerned with is the perception of control that attempting to use the state to fight your petty interpersonal battles gives you. You really honestly are a pathetic excuse for a human being and it is far past time you are shunned from this community for your endless power tripping psychotic abusive behavior.

It's obvious TECHY is protecting OG - that's why he suggested I move to China, where you can easily pay off government officials.

No thanks Techy, the best place to legitimize crypto is HERE where the laws are enforced.  (Not this forum obviously, but our democracy)

Anybody who can understand English knows what he meant. Let's look at it again:


He uses the word "thought", as in "thought at the time." Don't know how you could possibly confuse this, but I'm sure you'll find a way.

I took the liberty of placing more baseless speculation in bold.

The BTC1000 tx is the third to last up there ^^^ and is on this paginate:

https://www.walletexplorer.com/wallet/000c9e9219e1faec?page=55

Of the BTC1000

only ~BTC650 left the wallet...I think.  That tx looks weird though if someone could take a closer look.


After that he received 2 more from Pirate (and a bunch of small stuff that doesn't matter) with the last one being for BTC38 on the same day, August 17, that pirate announced it was closing down, and OG posted in his thread that he had request all deposit be returned (and then updated later that pirate defaulted and reserves were paid).

2 days later he sent BTC380 to an address that shortly was moved to silk road.  I don't think this was a payout to an investor due to timing and tx size.

Then on September 1, the day he said reserves were paid out,  he sent 4 transactions of BTC22.95, BTC27.54, BTC4.59, BTC9.92, which is pretty close to my original guess on the value of total reserves.

This is not conclusive proof, it looks like he had control of more of the deposits than he should've in early August.  I'll go through the individual investors deposit/interest-payment/reserve payout history later and it will be more clear.

Might have messed up a number or two somewhere, let me know.

I fixed that for you.

This statement doesn't reflect hindsight, it reflects having a feeling about something as it was happening:



Seeing as how most of us never promoted a Ponzi scheme on the forum, I highly doubt it.

Here are all the transactions between OgNastys known addresses wallet and Pirateats starting on 4/10/12.

It's a filtered list.  Only when Og sends or receives from a known Pirateat address from April 2012 and later.
(There were a few small ones from earlier in the year for less than BTC2 each, but pass-through didn't start till April, so they don't matter.)

---

date	received from	received amount	sent amount	sent to	balance	transaction
2012-04-10 22:03:57			50	Btcst.com-pirateat40 (001759702ef1697a)	0.29135	31884f46fff43736475873063a95e4ec04b5b878d008babe65a818655a411b9c
2012-04-10 23:03:13			300	Btcst.com-pirateat40 (001759702ef1697a)	0.29135	f68edfb6b4af2dc4531b82d920e33727cf5f661c9aa5a66e7d093ee2014fc42a
2012-04-11 14:37:10			250	Btcst.com-pirateat40 (001759702ef1697a)	0.3426	46e228a703fcbd9a5f43722054ecdbdedfadab6ed944c256259f18f5b61eb169
2012-04-12 05:42:51			200	Btcst.com-pirateat40 (001759702ef1697a)	10.38013299	7641c7d39fd915ebda13b70d1323e62d40066cf96df23a544af2ae678b25bfdb
2012-04-14 01:10:52			100	Btcst.com-pirateat40 (001759702ef1697a)	0.361201	0277e564c3b07a2db01ab3ffa0aea417e45dc25d52f2e6a058c307da093e3c51
2012-04-15 18:40:04			50	Btcst.com-pirateat40 (001759702ef1697a)	10.596549	294a70f3ec9d0bd909b0d7a2e8e5d6b4d2cbdba25067a0c46fc182bce682a273
2012-04-17 16:37:49			50	Btcst.com-pirateat40 (001759702ef1697a)	11.205749	af256277e0f0e9c7667405e9c93b6d70c493382f5fd1033a4710239fc8473677
2012-04-17 23:54:58	Btcst.com-pirateat40 (001759702ef1697a)	200			211.205749	fc531d13696a8e17d99e92cf471f08197310deda5e22ec062489cc779076224d
2012-04-21 00:34:08			100	Btcst.com-pirateat40 (001759702ef1697a)	0.05324	24d6baa1fea59585da7f226f7e21489c39334771e6e941aa2aea0d540a90604d
2012-04-30 23:25:19	Btcst.com-pirateat40 (001759702ef1697a)	350			459.37344	35957d79b6a4dc19e8db16351865830fb2280afbbb678034f9b5a766b83e9a97
2012-05-02 00:29:24			22	Btcst.com-pirateat40 (001759702ef1697a)	117.5538267	ba8d733447ed086927816fb76af7deb65337db7d248be6778cdeb7cdcd617235
2012-05-04 00:40:11			700	Btcst.com-pirateat40 (001759702ef1697a)	83.40446666	5dc351b9816b282b71e6488717974574d2beb3e26112b7e79ce53b887f4d325c
2012-05-05 18:45:18			500	Btcst.com-pirateat40 (001759702ef1697a)	83.38626666	01292855d2c4a9d10cd5be7042fd00b215c8b22807fca424acb310c34c3128cb
2012-05-06 18:04:12			50	Btcst.com-pirateat40 (001759702ef1697a)	50.04114234	8d8d1dfb8f8258b571078b8a0b078473798723ea39653f150a53b998500cb5bb
2012-05-07 18:36:27	Btcst.com-pirateat40 (001759702ef1697a)	100			160.1370672	546ce39ddec9520d9a423c9243ab4da55bc22371caf7c657ee2b08d9af91cc8f
2012-05-12 05:39:15			40	Btcst.com-pirateat40 (001759702ef1697a)	0.1972672	3c239f2914917867b44f4aa560ded330b562e3f2cffbb2a7157ab4ec8bdf3831
2012-05-12 17:56:57			250	Btcst.com-pirateat40 (001759702ef1697a)	0.1972672	c8b5eeed0b3280237546958a0839cbeaaa935a3aba876789f0739a54aa835755
2012-05-14 18:54:31	Btcst.com-pirateat40 (001759702ef1697a)	200			200.3272672	2fe99a79ad9f1ec1161f12a8d861171b4eeb864767e4b0e280f15e848b9b95a6
2012-05-14 23:21:29			100	Btcst.com-pirateat40 (001759702ef1697a)	200.5172672	96f1a50599a178870e24e5e74c63404982f8111ef4941f6e9af503a8695c7705
2012-05-17 01:43:31			44.999	Btcst.com-pirateat40 (001759702ef1697a)	5	39ae5977a4cfe58fd2ffd8aecd1784b1ea7ae224434a38359b3015441e407a22
2012-05-20 16:01:15	Btcst.com-pirateat40 (001759702ef1697a)	300			400.05898	5ed97dec12c4bb07ad5c8e0d313a73555d64340656a1507490f7401a9e7f015f
2012-05-21 18:15:45	Btcst.com-pirateat40 (001759702ef1697a)	220.3793484			620.9235684	7951302c74f9b8ed1b21d35827c37c7afbd220cca5d2b3a1b98ba0c45976f6a9
2012-05-22 02:18:28			75	Btcst.com-pirateat40 (001759702ef1697a)	378.9513284	12b25f24f82126c435e1c64abe058df5d2e77743818a3a98f9d9f76cecabbfec
2012-05-28 20:17:53	Btcst.com-pirateat40 (001759702ef1697a)	207.3690817			207.9725051	0ddd30ceb422b8bf0a76596ca4358ca0e0b9911162d696cc29c6de440a3543aa
2012-06-02 04:12:31	Btcst.com-pirateat40 (001759702ef1697a)	200			551.8546051	48b016d4cbd83ae5d89fa22ae151baba9d3a4db0b7edcb5ff0022d0544501c4b
2012-06-02 04:40:26			58.26907056	Btcst.com-pirateat40 (001759702ef1697a)	3.5850345	3b4889137e9e7135dd4e1e64f0864635ddee9fd10d384fc87b826f5502a7df5a
2012-06-02 15:25:40			30	Btcst.com-pirateat40 (001759702ef1697a)	3.5845345	6e18040b1f40186183f6e5ac64d6a8cb2422c15c47837c67d58fa8fb490a894f
2012-06-03 20:32:02	Btcst.com-pirateat40 (001759702ef1697a)	300			303.5770345	78868ec14858fb56f51599714df2dab2038f32dd641f9616bb25149779586147
2012-06-04 03:57:03			100	Btcst.com-pirateat40 (001759702ef1697a)	3.5770345	e1e138493e3298282bcb074f73b519bf8f06a974b89df61ed2084f93c0bdabc1
2012-06-11 16:40:57	Btcst.com-pirateat40 (001759702ef1697a)	186.2			206.593	da113cc88c248dfe716949a5891964f00c8d47812632fc834fe89e342e5e4ad0
2012-06-13 15:33:09	Btcst.com-pirateat40 (001759702ef1697a)	110			341.2727	ad8999be2bfe99380c3b8a0a06aa4a99da5cc0c7cc79582fa4493ac51eb74405
2012-06-18 18:40:06	Btcst.com-pirateat40 (001759702ef1697a)	181.1801806			759.1757806	0f792569fc1c8e7b81545cbdd9ceba2475066ad4bf0feeacb89fbb092d8425e7
2012-06-26 00:13:36	Btcst.com-pirateat40 (001759702ef1697a)	178.5			218.6601672	b023960be3dead0b4ce107473d9d8a82845ecd8d5d4a7387b007f76eb6a44ced
2012-07-02 14:37:48	Btcst.com-pirateat40 (001759702ef1697a)	178.5			253.6415759	eeb05b72d6900b8092b673ee4d7d86b5b70b92aad42c3b3c8204a5b060d0bc8a
2012-07-03 00:09:13	Btcst.com-pirateat40 (001759702ef1697a)	300			553.6415759	5fbfe9b4a29e8d034cd9c696d72cebae4fcdb2703ce3698ca2dfb8bd901978e0
2012-07-09 14:03:48	Btcst.com-pirateat40 (001759702ef1697a)	159.8793403			358.6465162	9db2a41de4cfbffd8b497c11184f58fd4b54ad9e8a638918a493f44934e230ea
2012-07-16 15:12:51	Btcst.com-pirateat40 (001759702ef1697a)	157.5			657.6393266	738d6f63608cbf700334dde4e983c82849f353be2107ae1afd0150c3355a123a
2012-07-18 00:00:14	Btcst.com-pirateat40 (001759702ef1697a)	250			687.6393266	fcec48d92528c70c4ce3a44eaf4707ef236c499f33d49eb8d482ec29e969b1e0
2012-07-18 00:02:40	Btcst.com-pirateat40 (001759702ef1697a)	600			1287.639327	c4a004394abb0e5fa6d98095420d7627d816e779c48f3e9baba9ff7489480e00
2012-07-21 21:00:17			300	Btcst.com-pirateat40 (001759702ef1697a)	600.9866573	232b6ab4f0046dc75d941b59f01ef80e7f408262b295ba104ee5c142b6698179
2012-07-23 16:37:48	Btcst.com-pirateat40 (001759702ef1697a)	93.79603241			115.6231126	83419037e8b2572bdb1176915c20a49a37e46571e91fa5210aecd0a8a8930a7d
2012-07-31 01:10:45	Btcst.com-pirateat40 (001759702ef1697a)	95.2			171.0381802	4196499760499d01540ad45f0a63ce6d3a39dde7433d20f79510a7963a1d4334
2012-08-02 15:52:01	Btcst.com-pirateat40 (001759702ef1697a)	1000			1041.95333	8656eb07b3c11d105bccdc0a1000777fa5f56219fd41ed75d2b4aa8ccb4b5e6e
2012-08-06 17:21:51	Btcst.com-pirateat40 (001759702ef1697a)	66.80685185			459.7926017	f591acd2d7d5233b3089d4b577ef2414eee104c38a6ff4c7776591de47f71e4f
2012-08-17 01:50:43	Btcst.com-pirateat40 (001759702ef1697a)	38			558.1251353	c265f7ec360c2f01afe7a75368160e8792bd0d5cf75305a521d29edb1b07ffb4

I took the liberty of putting the perfect hindsight and speculation in underline and bold. In, other words, even if all of this baseless speculation is true, the so called "victims" don't consider themselves to be an aggrieved party, and this is all being perused for ulterior motives.

Exactly, we don't know the specifics. OGNasty was named. OOoooO. Very impressive, that is for anyone who just casually skims and doesn't bother spending way too much time digging through these records looking for any ACTUAL evidence of wrongdoing. Of course that is the point isn't it? The convince as many people as possible assuming most will just make their own assumptions based on these baseless accusations and speculation while simultaneously not actually providing any definitive evidence of any wrongdoing.

If I was OGNasty I would tell you all to go fuck yourselves too and suggest you find yourself some other steaming heap to pick peanuts out of. This atmosphere of picking through everyone's activities and demanding public explanation for everything just because some one has a figment in their imagination is not just repugnant but dangerous the the freedoms of the community in general and needs to be broken. This is like the 1984 version of crypto with a boot stamping on its face for eternity.

war is peace
freedom is slavery
fascism is legitimacy

Sooner or later you will all be just like OGNasty and each have your turn at the unaccountable mob picking through every intimate detail of your life looking for things to report to the government simply because they can and it makes them feel less like the weak little men they are because they wield power over another. History shows that is really the only motive required for this to develop.

None of this is nearly the same as collecting funds to be deposited into what apparently everybody knew was a Ponzi scheme, Og included.

Could it be that nobody complained afterward because everybody knew what they were getting themselves into at the beginning?

We really don't know the specifics because we don't know what was contained in Exhibit 3, other than the name "OgNasty" next to an amount of BTC on a spreadsheet. The number may have been 1,000, it may have been 2,600+ -- we don't know for sure. We also don't know if it reflected Og's personal investment or all the BTC collected from investors, or both.

Its true that all this is well in the past and doesn't really matter anymore from a legal standpoint, but it still demonstrates behavior that is pretty far from trustworthy. The fact that Og won't comment on what Shavers was talking about in his testimony only makes things worse.

You should move to China if that is the kind of "legitimate" you are looking for. You would fit right in with the CCP.

Yes, I'm sure most of use would like to see crypto be legitimate.

That is what we are trying to do by exposing a habitual scammer like OG.

Don't ever speak for me little girl.

No, it couldn't possibly be that YOU don't know what was going on. You are involved in the ponzi scheme by way of investigating it. I was involved by coincidentally helping to expose its collapse. Theymos was involved by way of hosting the forum. Hundreds of users were involved tangentially. This is not tantamount to wrongdoing no matter how much you struggle to manufacture that appearance.

You aren't looking for justice for any harmed party. You are a mini digital Stazi agent looking to use the state to fight your interpersonal battles. You don't have any evidence of wrongdoing, you are just picking through OGNasty's turds looking for peanuts because your target is OGNasty, not because you are seeking justice for any harmed party. This is to serve yourself and your friends, and this is painfully transparent. This community needs to collectively stand up to budding little goosesteppers like this, or else this is going to be the future of crypto. Is that really what you want?