Topic: OgNasty Ponzi passthrough and ponzi fans.. BTC losses everywhere he goes - page 14. (Read 7916 times)

No...
That was meant to address twitchy..
Finished your post and yeah, I was not trying to include you in the witch hunting party.. I see you as a pretty neutral truth seeker..

Right..

So you think you see a series of ponzi associations here..
Do you think it would have been reasonable for him to assume that BFL was a ponzi? Or was he just doing a community project?
I'm not real up on BFL but I know they scammed a LOT of very smart people..



If you got me on the exact definition I'll concede, but you know what I mean..

What is your goal of an outcome here? And others posting or who have posted here?
Is the goal to take down OG or something else?

all we have is the word of a convicted liar : pirate 🏴‍☠️

if  og did  get the BTC from pirate maybe pirate 🏴‍☠️ could prove it.  your next step is find the pirate 🏴‍☠️ and see what evidence he has.

do,you know how to contact the pirate 🏴‍☠️?


I will say this find the pirate and you may find the treasure.

I would,love to know if og is innocent or not.

Yeah, that's been Ogs defense also.  I'm alleging that the guys that lost their deposits think Pirateat stole their money, but Og is the one that stole it.  That's why.

If his investors found out that he pocketed their deposits 8 years ago though, he probably wouldn't have been able to convince a bunch of people to loan him money to send to Butterfly labs a year later.

And then when BFL turned out to be a big ponzi, he probably wouldn't have been able to convince the people he couldn't pay back to accept 5,000 'seats' into the OgNasty fan club.

Witch Hunt implies that the truth is irrelevant.  All that matters is we get to set a witch on fire.

so did pirate lie.

or did og lie.

the worth of the coins was as low as six dollars in 2012

and as high as 40

so the value when and if received was 6 x 2500= 15,000
to 40 x 2500= 100000

if he received them you would need to prove it.

all we have is the word of a liar pirate that he got them.

but at least i finally understand some of the vod vs og feud and why many people don't like og.

my dealings with og have been a few sales to him and he did some escrows for me.

---

good luck to og proving he did not get the 2500coins
good luck to anyone proving og did get the 2500 coins


which ever one is true is hopefully found out and proven.

as for how to evaluate what the coins are worth.

if og did get them.  as i stated they are worth 15,000 to 100,000


you then would trace them and see how and when they were disposed of.

ie if hodl on some those are worth more.
if sold,quickly those are worth less.


but your bottom line is a thief that was convicted is the only evidence that og,received payment  of 2500 coins.

Oh gawd... you are going to accuse me of engaging in a witch hunt, too?  Seems to me that I just raised a legitimate connected concept.  I recall OGNasty asserting that there were no complaints, and if there were no complaints, then so be it.   I have life experiences that have shown me that when dealing with people there are frequently if not always some complaints.. and surely, some complaints are materially relevant and others are not.  Let's say, for example, that one of the investors was owed 10BTC, and OGNasty said that he was going to send the 10BTC within 72 hours; however, it took him a week to send the 10BTC.  There might be a complaint about receiving the BTC late, but in the end, many might conclude that the late sending of the BTC was not necessarily a material breach, even though OGNasty had represented that he would send the BTC within 72 hours.  Now if he did not send the 10 BTC or he only sent 2 BTC that might be another story. 

Another example would be if OGNasty said that he was only going to send 2 BTC because he was only paying 20% of the amount owed which was apportionate to the whole amount of the funds that were available, but if OGNasty later got reimbursed the additional 8 BTC with the presumption that OGNasty was receiving that additional reimbursement to pay off any additional claims, there might not have been any complaints if the intended recipient did not realize that OGNasty had received the additional 8BTC but had not used those funds for reimbursement....

So, in any case, the absence of complaints might not prove the point that is at issue, and if some investors later find out that they were provided with false or misleading facts, then they might choose to later complain even though they had not complained earlier.   I am just saying that complaints might or might not be relevant, even at a later stage of looking into the matter.


Perhaps everything is ancient.  I have no fucking clue.  If new evidence comes out, and affected people just find out about the new information, then the situation might no longer be "ancient" because there is the revelation of new information. 


I don't know.  I already revealed how my attention was drawn to this, which was initially the various posts about the airdropped coins that led into this information, and if there is just digging up old information then I may have missed that, and I have no intention to rehash old information, to the extent that might be happening. 

Where are the compaints?
If their are no complaints, then why are you even digging for dirt, unless it is a witch hunt?

This shit is ancient and you are just trying to find ancient dirt..
I don't see the intentions of this to make any possible victims whole.. Just to take down OGNasty..

I do respect admitting when you are wrong though..

Thanks for that clarification, Twitchy.  I am glad that wayback machine was able to clarify that deleting of posts was not as BIG or widespread as previously recalled, and surely we know that sometimes OPs are rewritten as matters evolve, so sometimes the rewriting of the OP could cause some inadvertent appearances of a cover up that ends up NOT panning out upon further investigation.

Thanks for reading it.  I have no recollection of you criticizing me about anything involving yobit...I think you might be confusing me with someone else, or I just don't remember.  I don't even really know what happened with yobit other than they used to shit post like crazy.


About half the interest payments and divestment transactions were made from OGs main address.  He didn't receive any large amounts after August 2.

If the feds seized any of Pirates BTC we could probably track them the say way we did with Silk Road Coins and work backwards.


If Pirate made a few big refunds to pass-through operators in the middle of the collapse, it would provide an ideal situation to scam a bunch of money for each operator. 


At this point, Pirate lying about returning the funds is by far the most likely scenario that ends in Og being not being a thief.  And it's easy to just say 'oh he wasn't trustworthy, OG is, so pirate must be the one lying'.  But the transcript is pretty convincing, Og won't address it, and I don't see what motivation Pirate would have to lie about returning what looks to be ~BTC800 to OgNasty and only a few others.  You could argue he was trying to look nice or just get the number he scammed down I guess. 

Probably the biggest red flag  is how cagey Og has been about the whole thing.  It doesn't make sense if he's innocent.  When he's tried to defend himself it's always a vague, weak or not relevant  argument. Refuses to answer any direct question.  While we have solid, easily accessible proof that from May through July all his investors were making good money and being payed promptly. Why aren't there any details of how the whole thing ended?  He's obviously capable of keeping records and being transparent.  It's possible there's a valid reason...why not just tell us?

If he's guilty, he's probably wary about saying anything that could be disproven at some point in the future, and the truth doesn't make him look good.  The vague deflection and insults would make a lot of sense .

Not saying any of this stuff proves he's 100% guilty, btw.  Just pointing out what I consider pretty big red flags.


I'll look into these too.  I've already sent a few pms out to investors who may have answers.



It looks like I was wrong about him deleting posts from that thread.  It's possible I saw the long OP get deleted and for some reason though it was actually deleted posts, or it could have been in another thread.  It looks like all he did was delete the entire OP and lock the thread.  So, yeah, I was wrong about that and apologize to OG for making that claim.

I'm seriously not out on a Witch Hunt here and If I find anything that exonerates him or something I that makes him look 'less bad' I would post it for sure.


For anyone that is behind, please read this post, and then this post if you want to catch up.

This is pretty much very simple yes-know question.

@OG have you returned whole amount to depositors? Did pirate return you whole amount, as he claim he did?

I did not really want to get into the VOD drama unless there is some significant reason that I need to do so.  I am not going to rule out that I may want to look further into the matter, but there is only so much time in the day, and I was just curious about the possible significance of purported deleted posts that Twitchy had brought up regarding OGNasty, and if there is not really much if any significance, then maybe this whole assertion that OGNasty is going to jail is overblown.  So, yeah, I have seen some of the arguments against OGNasty, and surely the trent shavers testimony would only be one aspect, but there would need to be some kind of corroboration, whether evidence of bitcoin addresses or even members complaining that they were not paid while OGNasty seemed to imply that there were no complaints.  There should always be some complaints, but then a question might be whether any of the complaints add up to clear and convincing evidence against OGNasty in terms of whether he engaged in fraudulent behavior or breach of fiduciary behavior or some other means of running off with the funds, and that is what seems to be asserted here.

By the way, I personally doubt that there has to be either direct evidence or even evidence of legal wrong doing in order to drag a person's reputation through the mud regarding conduct that might end up being morally repugnant rather than illegal, so in that sense, the evidence still seems to be a bit ambiguous from my perspective about OGNasty - but I am NOT even saying that I have seen all of the evidence.  Sure, there were some problematic aspects of how he seemed to have handled the forum airdrops, which was kind of what drew me into this seemingly related discussion in the first place, and even with that, I see topics (talking about forum funds and the other pass through entity allegations of this thread) overlapping, and I only have so much time to think about these kinds of OGNasty is a bad guy matters, and sometimes factual matters from different cases could show a pattern of behavior, even if each one of the situations might not stand completely on its own as a violation (like fraud, or breach of fiduciary duty or conversion or whatever), too.

I think you could get caught up by reading my posts in this thread starting here for a couple pages or so..


Same here..
I am soooo ready to see some damning evidence against OG after all of this half baked, circumstantial, and speculative attacking of him basically across the entire forum..

Some of the best of the best are here constantly trying to dig at whatever they can find and keep coming up with nothing much, while still insisting he is such a horrible scammer and causing ridiculous amounts of drama..

At this point I really just want to finally be convinced that he is indeed a piece of shit so I can quit caring about all of this, but nothing good yet..

Maybe they got em this time, and if they do, I want to see it..

This is probably a pretty good representation of the thread in question. It is from May 2014, and there were the same number of posts in the thread as of Feb 2016. There are other versions of this thread here, but I expect them to contain the same information, or less information because some of them contain only one page.

You are anticipating something that I would like to know, eddie13?  I may have heard something about VOD calling the IRS about OGNasty, but I really cannot remember if I did or not, so I should not be spreading rumors in terms of my own faulty memory regarding that.

Rather than getting derailed into what VOD may have done (Edit: looks like Vod largely responded to this point above to the extent that it might be minimally relevant to anything that we are attempting to discuss here), and I am not sure if it is completely relevant (but sure, it could be relevant, I suppose).

I am a bit more interested in the extent to which posts might have been deleted in terms of OGNasty's own back and forth communications, which seems to be what Twitchy asserted to have happened within a short period of Twitchy's attempted investigation into some of the possible factual matters.   In that regard, I had thought that there should be way back machines or something like that that would establish if Twitch's assertion about OGNasty engaging in shredding would be true.. and then furthermore, a way to see the contents of the shredding attempts without having to rely upon any forum administrator's possible abilities to access such contents.

Am I naive to believe that there are way back machines that would capture the contents of forum post shredding attempts.  There are guys (and perhaps a gal or two) who are way the hell better at using those kinds of interwebs tools than me... to the extent such tools might exist.

Did this postal letter contain the formal accusation of fraud documents (whatever they are called) against OG that you originally threatened?


I think that was pretty low, but..
This is far from the first time I have seen this link, I believe you referenced it first, it did not originate from OG did it?
It is basically old news, hence not having to be contained to the investigations board..


Anyway, this is off topic..

I want to know if OG middleman scammed his pirate pass through investors or not..


Burden of proof is on the accuser.. If their is proof I want to see it, but it's not my job to go find it..
First you need to prove that OG got whatever refund, then you need to prove that he did not pay whatever refund..

I have already posted I sent a postal letter to the IRS.  

Did OG post a link containing my name and location, and claim I called myself a pedophile?

What did your morals do there?

Send them to me and I will.  

Let's chat more when you are less biased, ok?  

My apologies, I had not seen that document. Although my criticism does stand with regards to your lack of calling out anyone involved in the yobit campaign..

Elsewhere in the deposition, transaction histories of all the account holders accounts are mentioned, but are not attached to the document. If you can find an account history of OgN's BS&T account, the last withdrawal(s) can be cross referenced to the blockchain (if the txid is not listed), and I will consider the probability if OgN actually received the withdrawal or not.

It was suggested by pirate40's lawyer that some pass-through 'lenders' were scammed by pass-through operators, although the article I read did not mention him offering evidence to support this.

The document you provided was a deposition of pirate40, who for obvious reasons is not the most reliable person. He also contradicted himself on the following page in where he testified to compared to what he told an SEC investigator via telephone previously. He testified that he first gave priority to new account holders, and then prioritized his long standing accounts, but he previously only said that he prioritized his long standing accounts.

I also reviewed posts of some others that pirate40 claimed to have paid in full, however, some never made any mention of pirate40, btc4domains posted that he lost money in the pirate ponzi, brendio posted multiple times that he had not received anything from pirate40, coin_toss tried to sell his BS&T account after he would have received payment. Imsaguy seems to imply that he was expecting a payout for his pass through, but it is unclear if he ever received a withdrawal, he did say in late August 2012 that he had not received anything.

So I should trust what Trendon Shavers has to say about who he paid? I'm not sure about that..

Cool, post links..

BTW did you actually call the IRS on OG, putting his life in danger, the 500BTC of forum funds in danger, and possibly the forum itself in legal danger, or did you lie about contacting the IRS?
JJG want's to know too..

That's according to the SEC document where Trendon Shavers mentions his name and spells it out.  

I am sure OG is on record somewhere saying he did receive the coins and he would have to claim he made all his players whole.   I think he just hoped no one would ever find out.

Now you know what pays for his pool, and his panels, and new Telsa trucks... coins from our fellow community members.

So the accusation is that OG was fully refunded by BS&T, but told the "investors" that he was not, only paid the reserve to the investors, and pocketed the refund WD from BS&T?

I would suggest you sell your mom for a bit more than a satoshi....

https://web.archive.org/web/20140429234623/https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=75843.0

OG received the withdrawal, but did not return the funds.
BS&T did not collapse as far as the relationship between them and OG.   He was made whole, and he scammed his investors.


- pirateat40 and you did not disappear with any funds
- BS&T stop paying but you had all the investor deposits.
What happened?


All his future comments point only towards the reserve fund.  He knew the collapse was coming and that is why he offered bonuses if you kept a minimum number of coins with him. 

But the original post always contained the original phrase:
"In the event that BS&T stops paying interest, I will request a withdrawal.  Once received, your funds will be returned to you"