Topic: On Ordinals: Where do you stand? - page 6. (Read 9226 times)

learn more.. instead of finding random unrelated things just to find a quote that suits your cults narrative

so here goes, lets play your game in the opposite direction
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0141#P2WSH

"P2WSH allows maximum script size of 10,000 bytes, as the 520-byte push limit is bypassed. "

meaning there was a 520byte limit. that got bypassed for a 10kb limit which was implied and applied to segwit scripts which later got bypassed to allow for a 4mb when they used taproot, by not having such limitations

other things to note

so now try to learn.. large scripts/signature spaces were not always possible from 2009 -2017... unlike what your cult leader tries to suggest was always possible. and then the witness v0 opcodes did come with limits and constraints. which.. for v1 were not there.

so look how things changed over the years!!

yep the witness structure has no rules. but the use of opcodes for the inclusion into the witness structure(opcodes are used to inform on which type of script system the spender wishes to use to prove a spend) used to have limits on the content included for that opcode script function of what went into that 'proof'(witness data). but with each new opcode and version they keep removing and relaxing the rules meaning the latest tx format types(aka taproot) has less rules on formatting requirements for its opcode(script types). thus that lack of format requirement(data security/integrity/validation checks) allowed any junk be added to a block

now here is a game even you can play
put a small amount of funds into
1. a legacy p2pkh address ('1' prefix)
2. a legacy p2sh multisig address ('3' prefix)
3. a segwit p2wpkh v0 address ('bc1q' prefix)
4. a segwit p2wsh v0 address ('3' prefix)
5. a taproot v1 address ('bc1p' prefix)

just enough to cover possible fees for each next spend
then i dare you to try to add a 3.9mb meme to each of those utxo spends scripts.

and see which ones can and which ones cannot.
then you will learn when the junk was made to be allowed..


and the funniest thing.
for years i have been talking about the risks of enabling the opcodes that get treated as "anyone-can-spend"
but yep the same echoed voices didnt want me to mention it and have been trying to shut me up about the possible abuses of using opcodes with less format requirements or byte limits or requirements to even need a signature in the area that is supposed to be for proof of authorisation of spending

not in the BIP, franky.

actually there was.. but that involves you looking further instead of "THEY SAID"
doomad has taught you to believe that core is king and been running things since 2009 and that there has never been any rules about script lengths

however there was ..
before core there was and core did not come about until many years after bitcoin was invented and if you look at all the changes core done you will see they have removed alot of limits and expected things opcodes were suppose to do. many opcodes are now replaced to just be treated as 'isvalid' with no actual checks performed

well, a rationale for why a limit on the script size is no longer needed was already given in the BIP. it's not like they just overlooked the whole issue. they specifically addressed it with an explanation. i guess you don't agree with their rationale/explanation. did you speak up about that back in 2020 when that bip was published? just wondering. or did you wait until ordinals came around and then started complaining?


franky, i think it should go without saying that anyone who would just download and use some random bitcoin core software from some random website well, that would be a pretty dumb thing to do.

take a look at how it needs to be done: https://bitcoin.org/en/download

notice how they provide not only the different binary exes for different platform/operating systems but presumably each one has a signature that can be verified and yes they also include the signing keys from the devs. not only do we know who the devs are but now we can make sure that they are the ones that approved what we just downloaded and installed.

that's the beauty of how bitcoin core works is if i'm not able to read and understand c plus plus, i don't have to. i can just trust the devs. they've got it setup so i won't be downloading some fake trojaned copy of bitcoin core that will steal my private keys. most people franky are not going to delve into the source code of bitcoin core. that's an unreasonable expectation you have there to be quite honest.


it's nice and warm feeling if everyone on the planet could use bitcoin to buy pizza or coffee and all at the same time but it's just not technically possible franky. bitcoin has limitations on how many transactions it can do in 10 minutes. thus, not everyone can use bitcoin. not directly. the way that is dealt with is people who are willing to pay a larger fee get prioritized by the people processing the transactions. it's not a socialist system franky. people who are willing/able to pay more get preferential treatment. sorry to tell you but it's the truth.

i don't know about that franky. that sounds a bit over the top to be honest.  

well good for you then. but how is that helping anyone else?

in that BIP in 2020 franky they explicitly said that there was no maximum script size limit. seems pretty clear to me. what that meant, they further explained, is that it could take up the entire block if it wanted to. i don't think i need to learn about opcodes to understand what i just mentioned.  

Digital assets inscribed on a satoshi. Nft similarity. But hey, like I said, like it or not it's here to stay in the BTC Blockchain..lol

i laugh that you think that ordinals are an NFT
seems you need to read more

but hey if you think people should stop scrutinising and just accept crap. then you should be first inline to lose all your value and just accept your losses

I'm reading some of your comments in here and I can't help but laugh. Like it or not Ordinals is here to stay. It's an nft revolution with BTC. Stop whining and accept new challenges and technology.

larry you are showing your inability to think for yourself and just becoming a drone for doomad

i am not using an old branded node that was forked from core. and no its not out of date. that is doomad being an idiot and having no clue about many things yet again

larry spend less time on the social drama of "attack franky" and realise that core are the ones people should be scrutinising.
funny part is that you say you wont recommend people use other software.. becasue you have not reviewed it.. well how about you first review core code.. becasue its obvious you have not. you just work on blind trust and have no clue about the situation of how the exploit works and how it came about.
you are just falling into the social drama trap.

GO LEARN THE CODE

try to actually read the code that caused exploits. read which devs wrote it and which devs merged it into the final release candidate that majority of the network then use.

realise who actually caused what. dont fall into the cult trap of "it must be gods will" when something bad happens. actually question the governance of something rather than think the governance are gods

as for doomads wishlist
notice how he says permissionless but misses out on consensus.
in short if he was a medieval king of a castle he would allow the trojan horses into the gates of the castle.. he does not understand that code is used to make rules. he wants to break rules and have no rules

funny part about his "censorship"
he loves telling people to stop transacting, stop coding fixes for bitcoin.. he loves the "bitcoin perfers to go the altnet route, be patient use the altnet instead", he loves it when blocks got rejected and transactions rejected..
he literally campaigns every year that bitcoin should not be used by certain people. where he doesnt want to see people buying coffee-pizza value amounts on bitcoin. (reality is those pizza amounts are weeks wages for about 1billion people. so he is trying to reject 15% of the planet from even the choice/affordability to use bitcoin.. to instead be advertised into using another network that does not even have a blockchain or hashrate to protect their value)

 all he cares about is making bitcoin expensive because he wants people to hate bitcoin because he promotes another network as the solution to bitcoins exploits he idolises

..
it is funny how you think i am pigeon holed into the "bitcoin unlimited" brand.. your an idiot following doomads social drama games. my node is not a fork of any brand publicly released. its actually self built and upgraded to meet current specs of the rules core governed. but not one single line of it matches cores.
yep i actually create better rules to validate stuff core bypasses. mine even counts the rewards as bytes of the smallest unit(sats) that half the proper way at each halving.. not as 'coin' the divides in the flawed way core does it

and no its nothing like bitcoin unlimited either.
stop being fed by your mother hen of social drama.. it makes you look more of an idiot when you recite his crap

i have been writing code since before unlimited was even a brand and before core was even a brand. and no core did not exist previous to 2014(even if they pretend they existed since 2009 by putting 2009 in their copyright of their code)

...
as for you also being led down the rabbit hole of idiot stories
the exploit that caused a tx to be allowed upto 4mb of space via one opcode content.  is not simply the "1mb wall" rule
even when the 1mb block wall was strict pre 2017 a single tx could not even use up 1mb of data on a single opcode content. .. LEARN what actual opcodes and rules have been softened over the years that al led upto causing the bloat and fee mania

Every fibre of my being tells me you could not be more wrong about that.  There isn't a single doubt in my mind.  So we're clearly not going to find common ground any time soon (aside from it being time to lock this topic, I'm on board with that part).  Again, other things are more important than speed:

I hate to tell you but I think I would side with the core devs on that one. I doubt your cpu going from 4 core to 16 core really disproves it. Nice machine though. How big's the hard drive?

well the usa really isn't a "poorer" country but could you fit us into the "non-functional monetary policy" category? we did just raise the debt celing you know, again.  

there was some signature size limit that they allowed to be up to 1MB or something. for a single transaction. something like that. instead of clamping down on it, i guess they figured it would sort itself out somehow. which it has been doing but franky hasn't been to happy. neither has alot of other people but miners seem to be ok with it. since they get extra revenue so they're happily mining away.

I've been in crypto for a long time. Before mtgox collapsed. Been though blocksize wars. Three crypto bubbles. I just wanted to leave a comment.

How the fuck did Ordinals become possible with Taproot/Segwit? The whole point of the 2017 blocksize fork fiasco was that block space is scarce and now there's an exploit in the core client that allows for megabyte size files of shitty non-financial/transactional data to be embedded?

This is a massive fuckup. I am personally a big-blocker and hate how larger fees dimish the growth potential of Bitcoin, but I understood why some people preferred to keep small blocks to maximize network security.

But now we have the worse of both worlds. The limited processing space per 10 minutes being filled with shit and still constrained by the 1MB non-weighted limit for non-witness data.

Back in 2016 I was arguing with core devs on IRC that were adamant that Moore's law didn't exist anymore. Since then I've gone from a 16GB 4CPU machine to 128GB 16CPU machine with plenty of SSD space ready to provide processing power for financial freedom and autonomy to poorer countries with non-functional monetary policy.

Absolute fucking joke.

very strange. how many hours has it taken him to do this altering? and what good does it do? other than keep his own mempool looking like he wants it to. it has absolutely no affect on the rest of the world, i.e., bitcoin network.

well think of it this way. lets say you released your software for public use. it would need to be audited. how does someone know it doesn't have bugs or backdoors or things like that? now who wants to spend all that time auditing something that only one person uses? they would have to really think you have something special to offer in order to do that. and i'm not sure how responsible it would be to release something that does the things you're talking about. the more i think about it, the better i think it is for you to keep that software to yourself. because it may not work correctly. you seem to think it does and that's fine but are you a professional programmer?


but that's where you're wrong franky. people that have normal transactions are going to appreciate you for blocking the junky ones. that gives their transactions a better visibility on the network right? everyone has the same blocks in the blockchain though. only thing that varies is mempool data. right?

it needs to be audited. your code is not audited i don't think. so i wouldn't necessarily recommend people to use your code even if you did release it until it had been fully audited and given a green light. even then, you're just behind the times if you're running some old bitcoin unlimited time to upgrade franky. get with the modern era. your privacy sounds like it might be getting compromised otherwise, as doomad pointed out.

but you certainly get your full say and even more right here and no one moderates your comments at all. no one is moderating out your comments in this thread at all. not even the devs

are you really running some old bitcoin unlimited wow just wow. i'm really sorry for you franky. that's a huge burden to bear... imagine how much easier your life would be if you just went with the flow and accepted bitcoin core and didn't worry about maintaining some old version that has to have been a huge time sink for you hard to imagine someone would do that.

first of all bitcoin is code.. so yea reading code actually does help you learn what negatively affects bitcoin. becasue its the code changes done that caused the negative affects.. and reading the code you can also spot who wrote it and who merged it to learn WHO caused it.

in short.. you learn more from reading the code than you ever will on your social drama chatrooms and tweets

as for pointing it out..
i already have pointed at it. i have already mentioned in many posts about opcodes and(lack of) byte limits. and many other points of interest of limits being changed.
such as how opcodes used to have a 520byte limit of attached data. and other rules and checks.. . yep i mentioned this stuff.
its easy to find in the code. takes just 20 seconds

funnily enough doomad has not mentioned opcodes or other operations that core have done. he just wants to teach you social drama games to follow.. so dont expect any bitcoin teachings from him. he is just the dev defending social drama queen desiring social cohesion to centralisation

so i have pointed out thing that have negatively affected bitcoin
its YOU that has ignored all that because you just wanted to play the social drama distract game by deflecting any negative speak of core and your clans altnet preference.. and pretend this topic is about "only franky wants" rather than actually learn about whats actually happening and how bitcoin works and has changed.

so take time away from doomads social drama game and take more time learning bitcoin for your own benefit. without having to have people spoonfeed you just so you can then blame them, whilst not learning becasue you pretend they didnt explain it.

and i know you want me to spoonfeed you something just so you can ignore it and pretend that im controlling you. (yea i know that game) so instead ill stick to asking you to do the simple thing. the thing you should have done from the start
DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH. that way there is no possibility of you blaming me for telling you things.
do your own research and learn the hard way, as its the only way you will truly learn without finger pointing that "it must be wrong because franky said it"(again i know that game. its not original so stop trying to play that avoidance tactic, and simply instead just go learn)

so go look at what core done to enable the exploit that ordinals uses.
the hint again. (which can be found in 20seconds) is the opcodes and their byte limits(or should i say lack of). so dont pretend its too difficult to find as another avoidance tactic

..
i will be fair and say atleast you admit that even after a couple months of this topic you have admitted now that you have wasted a couple months of not learning. so it shows you can admit in your failure to learn. so do something about it and start to learn. no more avoidances

Guys, mempool is freeing up, is this the final relief or just a pause in this NFT craze? If it's over, I guess we can just lock this thread, shake hands and part as friends? At the end of the day, transaction fees and speed is all that matters.  

No, it's not. It's a reasoned conclusion by another forum member. Indeed. How irrelevant though.

You don't know what I'm doing. You don't know who I am. Shut your whiny lips for once, cut the childish crap, and answer the questions like an adult. You're once again trying to make me look dumb, because you don't think I can read code. You genuinely believe that reading code is the utmost necessity for understanding Bitcoin.

You know when me and my classmates work on some project, or big assignment, and notice "negatively affecting" code, we don't talk at them, yelling "LOOK AT THE CODE"; doesn't sound very informative, but I haven't tried it to tell you the truth. We point at the exact part, and we describe what's wrong.

So, point me.

blackhat coiner.
you have alot to learn
secondly you prtending i have a medical condition is not an original thought by you. you are yet again playing the songs of doomad
thirdly i have asked you to even dare yourself to read cores code and realise it was actually core that cause d the exploits which this topic speak of. and yet you yet again want to pretend they are not responsible and im just finger pointing at the wrong people. and again without seeing code you are already making judgement over code you have not even seen

for once just take some time in your live to read core code look at who actually did cause the exploits and actually rationalise the truth for your own mind rather then ignore the truth just to stay loyal to your forum wife

you seem to care more about being loyal to certain idiot humans rather then think about things that actually benefit or harm the protocol

so instead of attacking me and pretending that my code is some how bad and an attack even without you seeing it. go look at the code that has negatively affected hundreds of thousands of users. where MANY people in this topic.. are debating against wanting this exploit to continue.

and no its not a doomad clan vs franky thing.. read the other comments from others that are not in the doomad excho chamber.. its alot of people not just me.

WISE up.. that a week off from the doomad recitals challenge yourself.. learn bitcoin without doomads warped reality

heck even luke JR released a discourage ordinals patch and he was held in high esteem but now the rekting crew are screaming to not trust him because he is not a core maintainer so he cant get his code even to be a bip..

In as much as I pretty much agree with what Radamor said, that bitcoin has pretty much exceeded or gone far beyond what Satoshi himself had in the beginning imagined or designed bitcoin to be, I would still very much say that I am against ordinals, I am not a very technical person and might not be able to really discuss this from its technical perspective, but all I can say is that, bitcoin blockchain was not builds to have smart contracts of any kind running on it..
Though it does have the potential to bring more usage to bitcoin as well as more value, but the downside is that, it also could possibly destroy the chain with/due to high transaction cost, which has been a major issue on Ethereum blockchain before the upgrade/fork.

There is nothing to be fixed without forking the code. You can't "fix" this situation. Censoring valid transactions that don't pass your moral standards is perfectly reasonable only in your pro-censorship dystopia. It's simply not worth it to sacrifice one of the most important principles of this protocol to pay a few sats less. You can't measure the value of censorship-resistance; it's an invaluable and unique property. Doesn't surprise me you don't get it, you've made it crystal clear you don't believe Bitcoin should be censorship-resistant.

People don't tell Core to "fix" it, not only for that. There is nothing, literally nothing they can do if full node operators DENY to run their code. The Core team is merely a developing team, which makes in practice what enthusiasts envision in theory. They are not there for imposing ethics, or their opinion on how the protocol should work. Their opinion goes as far as their full node's configuration file, and maybe a little bit influence but 'til there.

Now as for "your Bitcoin client", I'm honestly not surprised you're running this (if you really do and just don't believe you do, which would nether surprise me given your medical condition again). You're clearly mad though. Maintaining all these C++ modules by yourself, solely for the sake of throwing the finger at Core sounds extremely arrogant. No sane person believes it's safe to maintain work done by very competent engineers, with no similar tests and reviews by other people than himself.

But please, show me the source code. I'm interested to know what you've built. Unless you don't feel confident with me reading it. For the third time, it wouldn't surprise me if you argued for closed-source Bitcoin clients.

YOU REKT anyone that tries, even before they try to publicly release stuff.. but you dont want anyone scrutinising core
even when core do publicly release stuff that does affect users..

thats why people dont bother releasing code proposals via non core brands because they know the result is to instantly be treated as opposition/threat.. rather than a choice

secondly core release code to the public that does affect the protocol and core do change the prototcol, so core should be scrutinised
other non protocol affecting code thats not publicly released, has no affect publicly

i have not released my code publicly and yet your cult is already shouting red flag, dont trust, dont use it, dont treat it as a viable candidate, it should not be on the bitcoin network, it should f**k off to an altcoin

And... just to make sure I've got this straight...

franky1:  
 
*Spends YEARS ranting about how no one should be able to write code without permission*
*Now claims he wrote code before Core existed*

*Spends YEARS ranting about how the community have to peer-review and approve everything*
*Hasn't provided any of his code to review*

*Spends YEARS ranting about how there should be more diversity and other clients*
*Never shares the client he's using with anyone*


What an absolute fucking joke.  If there's a world record for hypocrisy, it belongs to this cunt.  

Just when I think he can't say anything more insane than he did in the previous post, he just keeps going.    

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//EDIT: In response to the further histrionics after this post: