Topic: Opinion: Why Ripple/XRP Doubled In Value in Less Than A Week (Read 10241 times)
wow... this thread is TERRIBLE! someone close this one up... fast!
November 30, 2014, 04:56:19 AM
The picture is from https://wiki.ripple.com/The_Ripple_Ecosystem by the way, further below you see how these markets get interconnected:
Seriously, this is getting ridiculous.
Still no mention on how to increase the amount of XRP by the way... Just another derailment, now with random pictures.
Seriously, this is getting ridiculous.
Still no mention on how to increase the amount of XRP by the way... Just another derailment, now with random pictures.
November 30, 2014, 01:18:33 AM
That persuaded me, from visual impression I can clearly distinguate Ripples as beeing centralized. Thank you for posting.
November 29, 2014, 09:27:49 PM
Simple: the creators of ripple have the most to gain so therefore it makes sense that they are the ones responsible for the pump.
Lol Premined bullshit coin
Lol Premined bullshit coin
November 29, 2014, 07:33:36 PM
I think you don't know how it supposed to work. But in short both party's need to agree and have done all terms to get a successful transaction done.
If not the IOU will be destroyed.
You could do a offline ebay on that, with little bit of code even a decentral marketplace just like Peercoin has done one.
Explanation to that means if you send anything physical you will have to use the real world transportation service and it could be hard to do this anonymously as sometimes they need the receivers names written on it too.
If not the IOU will be destroyed.
You could do a offline ebay on that, with little bit of code even a decentral marketplace just like Peercoin has done one.
Quote
....P2P and fully anonymous if they find a way to transfer physical goods over long distances
Explanation to that means if you send anything physical you will have to use the real world transportation service and it could be hard to do this anonymously as sometimes they need the receivers names written on it too.
I will read up on it more, so that I can have a more informed opinion
November 29, 2014, 06:16:20 PM
http://blackhalo.info/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/whitepaper_twosided.pdf
They can do this without a third party everything happens inside the protocol.
Its based on the as idea like I.O.U's Ripple but P2P and fully anonymous if they find a way to transfer physical goods over long distances.
They can do this without a third party everything happens inside the protocol.
Its based on the as idea like I.O.U's Ripple but P2P and fully anonymous if they find a way to transfer physical goods over long distances.
Not everything can be handled on the network/inside the protocol, even based on your own description, unless that is a typo.
1st paragraph of whitepaper:
Quote
As proposed, this protocol offers a system of commitment schemes
and business protocols that greatly reduces the issues of extortion
and malleability from two-party escrow
and business protocols that greatly reduces the issues of extortion
and malleability from two-party escrow
reduces != solves for
I have no intention of knocking BlackHalo / BlackCoin / NightTrader, but I do believe you are misrepresenting them.
Edit: any experts on these systems that can help inform people following this thread? I myself would like to know more.
November 29, 2014, 05:47:05 PM
Explain how NightTrader solves for the above issues of counterparty risk and centalization at fiat entrance/exit endpoints.
I am unable to access the whitepaper from their site. Do you have a working link?
Your best angle is probably going to be BitUSD/BitShares and its prediction market approach.
Read up on it and try incorporating it into your arguments, or explain how NightTrader can assure that off-network fiat assets are always available 1:1 with fiat representations on the network.
November 29, 2014, 05:22:06 PM
Bitcoin don't need centralized networks like Bitstamp to exchange Fiat currency. It can be done with the p2p decentral exchange system.
Ripple is based on the Gateway method to exchange Fiat currency.
Ripple is based on the Gateway method to exchange Fiat currency.
Exactly how do you envision fiat entering and exiting the network?
...maybe like tether.to of the MasterCoin decentralized exchange?
Quote
You deposit your preferred currency (Dollars, Euros, Yen) or bitcoin onto our platform, and we issue you Tether+, which are digital tokens that allow you to make transactions using the Bitcoin blockchain.
...oh wait
Refer to it as a 'financial platform' or Gateway, and issue either 'tokens' or IOU, the fundamental problem of counterparty risk and centralized endpoints with external assets remains.
November 29, 2014, 04:12:47 PM
Again, you are confused and mixing concepts. At the bottom of your post, you are using an image that could just as easily have BTC in the center. It would be equally misleading, and not show the true decentralized nature of the Bitcoin network. A similar interpretation to the above would be saying that it is representative the of relationships between individual users and the currency they transact within the Bitcoin network. It misses the point.
Cross-currency payments, trust lines, and validators all paint different pictures of different interrelated decentralized functionality of Ripple. Here is a cool visualization of the rapidly evolving payment transaction relationships on the network. I am curious to see how that graph may differ in a few months, following the introduction of micro-tipping at xrptalk.org
November 29, 2014, 03:51:37 PM
So why exactly is Coinmarketcap not listing paypal then?
Because Paypal ONLY issues currencies/acts as gateway but does not have a native currency.They don't list Bitfinex either, only Bitcoin traded on Bitfinex for example, or they don't list Coinbase/BitPay, only Bitcoin itself.
The only 2 issues I have with coinmarketcap is that they call XRP "Ripple" and that they seem to change their default view from time to time (from "all coins available" to "all coins in circulation" for example).
November 29, 2014, 03:35:05 PM
So why exactly is Coinmarketcap not listing paypal then?
November 29, 2014, 02:09:53 PM
This should show what exactly?! "Alice" and "Bob" would have to use the same block chain/currency on Bitcoin too.
Still you haven't shown ANY indication that new XRP can be issued, all you did so far is to post random words or pictures you came across in the Ripple wiki trying to... do what exactly?
Still you haven't shown ANY indication that new XRP can be issued, all you did so far is to post random words or pictures you came across in the Ripple wiki trying to... do what exactly?
November 29, 2014, 01:57:14 PM
You confuse terminology.
Gateways are entities that issue something on Ripple (imagine it like colored coins). They don't "validate" anything and typically have very little to do with XRP (they need a few of them to do transactions once in a while).
Typically gateways even refuse to receive XRP.
Validators have a similar task to Bitcoin miners - they verify transactions and ensure the ledger's integrity (ledger = similar to Bitcoin's block chain with a signed UTXO set included). Unlike Bitcoin miners, they are not compensated with new coins or fees (fees are just destroying XRP).
Freezing works that way, that a gateway (e.g. PayPal) finds out that the CC payment you did to deposit USD was reversed by the CC company. They then issue a "freeze" transaction to freeze your USD balance with them which gets transmitted to validators, which put that transaction into the ledger. They afterwards will not allow transactions of UDS.PayPal from that frozen account, until it is unfrozen again.
As XRP do not "belong" to anyone, you cannot freeze them, just like bitcoins don't belong to anyone (in the sense of someone owning them other than the person that is allowed to move them using a transaction), they just "are" part of the network.
Gateways are entities that issue something on Ripple (imagine it like colored coins). They don't "validate" anything and typically have very little to do with XRP (they need a few of them to do transactions once in a while).
Typically gateways even refuse to receive XRP.
Validators have a similar task to Bitcoin miners - they verify transactions and ensure the ledger's integrity (ledger = similar to Bitcoin's block chain with a signed UTXO set included). Unlike Bitcoin miners, they are not compensated with new coins or fees (fees are just destroying XRP).
Freezing works that way, that a gateway (e.g. PayPal) finds out that the CC payment you did to deposit USD was reversed by the CC company. They then issue a "freeze" transaction to freeze your USD balance with them which gets transmitted to validators, which put that transaction into the ledger. They afterwards will not allow transactions of UDS.PayPal from that frozen account, until it is unfrozen again.
As XRP do not "belong" to anyone, you cannot freeze them, just like bitcoins don't belong to anyone (in the sense of someone owning them other than the person that is allowed to move them using a transaction), they just "are" part of the network.
November 29, 2014, 01:43:31 PM
Ripple transactions do cost some fraction of XRP. They are only "nearly" free, not totally free. Also you cannot freeze XRP (something that you don't seem to acknowledge).
Your Wiki says they can.
https://wiki.ripple.com/Freeze
November 29, 2014, 01:38:48 PM
Ripple transactions do cost some fraction of XRP. They are only "nearly" free, not totally free. Also you cannot freeze XRP (something that you don't seem to acknowledge).
November 29, 2014, 01:29:25 PM
Ripple is a payment protocol for a electric currency
Same is the JP Morgan patent.
This is a good one
Same is the JP Morgan patent.
Quote
155. A computer-implemented method of providing an anonymous payment from a mobile device to a payee device to enable an electronic payment between a payer and a payee without provision of an account number or name from the payer, the method comprising: storing, in a computer memory at a host server, payer information and instructions; and accessing the computer memory using a computer processor to retrieve the payer information and instructions and executing the instructions to perform steps including: receiving at the host server, a bill payment message from the payee, the bill payment message including a transaction ID; transmitting the transaction ID to the payer, the transaction ID permitting the payer to initiate transmission of a payment amount; generating a payment authorization message from the payer, the payment authorization message including a payment amount to be tendered to the payee and the transaction ID, the transaction ID allowing identification of the payment, thereby enabling redemption of the payment amount after the payee receives the transaction ID; and transferring the payment amount from an account associated with the payer to an account associated with the payee.
Quote
[0018] The present invention represents a new paradigm for effectuating electronic payments that leverages existing platforms, conventional payment infrastructures and currently available web-based technology to enable e-commerce in both the virtual and physical marketplace. The concept provides a safe, sound, and secure method that allows users (consumers) to shop on the Internet, pay bills, and pay anyone virtually anywhere, all without the consumer having to share account number information with the payee. Merchants receive immediate payment confirmation through the Electronic Funds Transfer (EFT) network so they can ship their product with confidence that the payment has already been received. The present invention further enables small dollar financial transactions, allows for the creation of "web cash" as well as provides facilities for customer service and record-keeping.
This is a good one
Quote
[0026] The Account Reporter is a flexible component offering instant payment confirmation, reconciliation and record retention so that merchants can track purchase orders against actual payments in real time. Every VPL transaction can be stored, searched, and retrieved. This archival/retrieval functionality is the perfect instrument for customer service and data mining. The Account Reporter offers all of the above features, without the need to actively engage in funds management as is required with the prior art.
Quote
[0033] The present invention is not limited to the case of a consumer making purchases from Internet merchants or business to business transactions. The method has further, broader applicability by providing the ability for anyone with an account at an institution to transfer funds to anyone else who also has an account at the same or a different institution. The pay anyone feature of the present invention allows parties to electronically transmit funds instantaneously without the expense of today's wiring fees.
Bitcoin is a payment protocol for an electric currency.
Can you explain the uniquely specific relationship you see between the above the Ripple Consensus whitepaper?
November 29, 2014, 01:28:17 PM
Apparently you don't read my posts, I already answered to that one in a different thread:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.9690126
If you mean "XRP" with "Ripple", yes, you can not freeze them.
https://wiki.ripple.com/Freeze#Individual_account_freezing
Freezing enables gateways to keep control over stuff they have issued on Ripple (e.g. Bitstamp can stop you from trading both on their exchange AND within Ripple if you deposited money with them).
Again you try to get away from providing proof that new XRP can be issued at will. Even if they could be frozen (which they can't!), this still wouldn't mean that new XRP can be created at will.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.9690126
If you mean "XRP" with "Ripple", yes, you can not freeze them.
https://wiki.ripple.com/Freeze#Individual_account_freezing
Quote
If an account has currencies from multiple gateways, only the particular issuances from the freezing gateway are frozen. As XRP does not have an issuer, it cannot be frozen.
Freezing enables gateways to keep control over stuff they have issued on Ripple (e.g. Bitstamp can stop you from trading both on their exchange AND within Ripple if you deposited money with them).
Again you try to get away from providing proof that new XRP can be issued at will. Even if they could be frozen (which they can't!), this still wouldn't mean that new XRP can be created at will.
November 29, 2014, 01:12:52 PM
Ripple is a payment protocol for a electric currency
Same is the JP Morgan patent.
This is a good one
Same is the JP Morgan patent.
Quote
155. A computer-implemented method of providing an anonymous payment from a mobile device to a payee device to enable an electronic payment between a payer and a payee without provision of an account number or name from the payer, the method comprising: storing, in a computer memory at a host server, payer information and instructions; and accessing the computer memory using a computer processor to retrieve the payer information and instructions and executing the instructions to perform steps including: receiving at the host server, a bill payment message from the payee, the bill payment message including a transaction ID; transmitting the transaction ID to the payer, the transaction ID permitting the payer to initiate transmission of a payment amount; generating a payment authorization message from the payer, the payment authorization message including a payment amount to be tendered to the payee and the transaction ID, the transaction ID allowing identification of the payment, thereby enabling redemption of the payment amount after the payee receives the transaction ID; and transferring the payment amount from an account associated with the payer to an account associated with the payee.
Quote
[0018] The present invention represents a new paradigm for effectuating electronic payments that leverages existing platforms, conventional payment infrastructures and currently available web-based technology to enable e-commerce in both the virtual and physical marketplace. The concept provides a safe, sound, and secure method that allows users (consumers) to shop on the Internet, pay bills, and pay anyone virtually anywhere, all without the consumer having to share account number information with the payee. Merchants receive immediate payment confirmation through the Electronic Funds Transfer (EFT) network so they can ship their product with confidence that the payment has already been received. The present invention further enables small dollar financial transactions, allows for the creation of "web cash" as well as provides facilities for customer service and record-keeping.
This is a good one
Quote
[0026] The Account Reporter is a flexible component offering instant payment confirmation, reconciliation and record retention so that merchants can track purchase orders against actual payments in real time. Every VPL transaction can be stored, searched, and retrieved. This archival/retrieval functionality is the perfect instrument for customer service and data mining. The Account Reporter offers all of the above features, without the need to actively engage in funds management as is required with the prior art.
It's only a patent application that's not been approved by a patent examiner yet. I doubt it will be approved because if anybody has previously demonstrated something similar it's not allowed. This sounds like bitcoin, ripple, or any other crypto. Here's the details.
United States Patent Application 20130317984
Kind Code A1
O'Leary; Denis ; et al. November 28, 2013
Method and system for processing internet payments using the electronic funds transfer network
Abstract
Embodiments of the invention include a method and system for conducting financial transactions over a payment network. The method may include associating a payment address of an account with an account holder name, the account residing at a financial institution and the associated payment address of the account configured to allow withdrawals by the account holder only and to allow a plurality of deposits to be made at different times. The method further includes freely publishing the payment address and making it available to users of an internet portal or search engine. The method further includes receiving data over a network identifying a deposit to be made to the account, assigning the deposit to the account using the payment address, and notifying the payer of the assignment.
November 29, 2014, 01:08:56 PM
Have we even said that they found a vulnerability ? We only said its centralized.
Nope, you (actually TaunSew) said:Ripple was something that could had been made in the 1990s, it's heavily centralized and a few people at Ripple labs control the entire blockchain and public ledger - they can give themselves free coins if they wanted.
Can you show me where in the code(!) that would happen? https://github.com/ripple/rippledMy argument against the centralization claim is that I run my own node for far more than a year now, I have yet to see any proof that anyone (RippleLabs or not) can issue themselves free coins on the current ledger. The only way known tome to get more XRP is to start a different ledger (kinda like generating a different Genesis block in Bitcoin). Since then you tried to make some tangents to JP-Morgan patents or whitepapers...
Again: Where is the code(!) that enables people to issue themselves "free" XRP at will?
November 29, 2014, 12:52:50 PM
Well the Patent is the Whitepaper if you read it ofc. It is nothing different then the Ripple Whitepaper just more text in it which is harder to understand.
You can't show any code if they didn't even write their own electronic currency at last they don't tell use more about it.
You can't show any code if they didn't even write their own electronic currency at last they don't tell use more about it.
Here is the Ripple Conensus whitepaper. Can you explain your view of its specific relationship to the JP Morgan patent?
I am having trouble following your argument that it is "nothing different then the Ripple Whitepaper just more text in it which is harder to understand."
It seems they are focused on different topics.
Jump to: