The mining pool could quite easily keep it for themselves. They haven't done anything wrong, and are just keeping the fee for a transaction which was broadcast to the network. Similarly, the mining pool could be anonymous, or it could have already distributed it to all its miners. Good luck contacting hundreds of anonymous miners and begging them to each give back 0.01 BTC.
Returning an overpaid fee should very much not be treated as the norm. Otherwise I could just overpay any transaction I need confirmed and then claim back the fee after it is confirmed? I suspect F2Pool only did it because PayPal and Paxos are the kind of scummy, ammoral entities to start blaming others for their own mistakes and start legal proceedings against these completely innocent third parties.
Topic: Ouch, today someone made a transaction with over $500k fee. - page 2. (Read 1093 times)
September 16, 2023, 10:52:55 AM
September 16, 2023, 10:02:58 AM
I figured they would refund.
It does bring an interesting issue for a small pool.
https://pool.laurentiapool.org/#/work
if this small pool had hit it . the software auto sends to the four addresses that have mined to it.
so that 25 coin block would go to four people. take 180 blocks to clear. and paypal/paxos would need to talk to four people to get a refund. not the pool but the four that mine to it.
I live in U.S.A. I would not be able to simply return the 7 or so extra coins I got. My address is registered and is kyc. thus it would look like I had a large taxable income.
Actually, no miner has to refund any transaction fee, even if it's 1000 bitcoins, simply no miner has to do that because there is no limit to bitcoin transaction fees since it's dynamic and fees are manually set from 1 to infinite, you can modify it the way you wish. So, I assume, no one can force any miner to refund, it's absolutely your gesture of goodwill to refund it.It does bring an interesting issue for a small pool.
https://pool.laurentiapool.org/#/work
if this small pool had hit it . the software auto sends to the four addresses that have mined to it.
so that 25 coin block would go to four people. take 180 blocks to clear. and paypal/paxos would need to talk to four people to get a refund. not the pool but the four that mine to it.
I live in U.S.A. I would not be able to simply return the 7 or so extra coins I got. My address is registered and is kyc. thus it would look like I had a large taxable income.
To be honest, asking for refund of transaction fees looks like asking for refund of bitcoins that you sent to wrong address. If I send bitcoins to wrong address that doesn't exist, who is going to refund? This is nature of bitcoin, so, your wrong transaction fees should be taken over like wrongly sent bitcoins or lost bitcoins.
September 16, 2023, 03:37:37 AM
Did you just say it's their right! Such right, Is it ideal? What's the ethical or moral philosophy behind that right in keeping what doesn't count as yours.
Yes i said so, it is their right to return an overpayment or not, it is their reward in fees and surely it is their right to do what they want with it. Take note that whatever fee attached to a mined tx now belongs to the miner, it counts as theirs and no longer belongs to whomever made the tx. It is just like saying you overpaid when sending BTC's to someone, and now you want some of the output back, it is the goodwill of the recipient to either keep the money or send them back to you, it isn't in the rights of the sender to enforce that refund.We understand that clarity about tx fees for miners but when you receive what's above your pay cheque especially to that range of amount of tx fees it will be reputable to return it to the owner as it could be an act of error, and no one is above error.
How can miners verify it was a mistake, anybody can come out and claim a mistake. Take note that there is no exact "paycheque" for miners, just take a look at some ordinals tx's and the fees attached to them, whatever tx fee attached to a tx will be taken by the miner as what you wish to pay. True that no one is above mistake, but it is better to let people know the truth so they can double or triple check next time they are about to hit that broadcast button. 
September 16, 2023, 03:04:07 AM
I wonder if this kind of actions would bring or open something like a "precedent" for other situations
It wouldn't, it is clear to everyone who understands how BTC works that tx fees attached to a tx is for the miners, and in the case of an overpayment the miner has the right to keep their reward in fees or return it if they want to, whatever they decide to do is up to them and is 'right'. We understand that clarity about tx fees for miners but when you receive what's above your pay cheque especially to that range of amount of tx fees it will be reputable to return it to the owner as it could be an act of error, and no one is above error.
One good turn deserves another. If that of 2016 mistake was returned then this should also be returned too.
September 16, 2023, 02:42:34 AM
I was wondering if the story of who actually did this will have come to light and here we have it.
Actually I am relieved that it wasn't a private person that didn't lose all their saving because of such a silly mistake because this could ruin you.
I also made costly mistakes years ago that still haunt me sometimes but something in this range would just devastating!
Well, who hasn’t made such mistakes related to cryptocurrency transfers? It seems to me that this number of people is quite large. I would be surprised if it was otherwise. Still, this is a new technology that should be carefully studied, and without practical personal experience this is impossible.Actually I am relieved that it wasn't a private person that didn't lose all their saving because of such a silly mistake because this could ruin you.
I also made costly mistakes years ago that still haunt me sometimes but something in this range would just devastating!
This is probably why the government is trying to protect citizens from hasty conclusions about this whole area.
To this day, similar mistakes are made, but this will be an experience not only for those who made them, but also for everyone else.
September 16, 2023, 02:20:14 AM
I wonder if this kind of actions would bring or open something like a "precedent" for other situations
It wouldn't, it is clear to everyone who understands how BTC works that tx fees attached to a tx is for the miners, and in the case of an overpayment the miner has the right to keep their reward in fees or return it if they want to, whatever they decide to do is up to them and is 'right'. Situations of huge overpayments rarely happens anyway, so what i think is that as this very case with Paxos was widely covered, it will teach people to use good wallets to make tx's and also to double check everything before broadcasting. 
September 15, 2023, 11:28:07 PM
If I were a miner on F2pool I'd be rather pissed by the refund to Paxos that has been transfered back to them even with zero tx fee.
So, why the TwiXXer poll, why ignore the poll's result? Care to explain, F2pool? Paxos failed programmatically because their likely lausy software didn't cover some edge cases. It's clearly their fault or whatever edge conditions lead to the faulty transaction with an exorbitant fee. Obviously there were no sanity checks for unreasonably high fees.
If it were some fat finger Bitcoin noob, well, the pool might consider to be generous and refund maybe 50% and distribute the other 50% rightfully to its miners. (A Bitcoin noob who was able to acquire ~20BTC isn't likely of the poor species.)
This all went somehow too smooth, but hey, it was a nice talk of the town, PayPal, Paxos and F2pool had their publicity share. Who cares if it was good or bad in the eyes of PR. I'm kind of torn between disappointment and mild amusement about this exceptional blockchain event. And Paxos? Well, they say, your funds are safu... Sure, with such software quality... I get it!
So, why the TwiXXer poll, why ignore the poll's result? Care to explain, F2pool? Paxos failed programmatically because their likely lausy software didn't cover some edge cases. It's clearly their fault or whatever edge conditions lead to the faulty transaction with an exorbitant fee. Obviously there were no sanity checks for unreasonably high fees.
If it were some fat finger Bitcoin noob, well, the pool might consider to be generous and refund maybe 50% and distribute the other 50% rightfully to its miners. (A Bitcoin noob who was able to acquire ~20BTC isn't likely of the poor species.)
This all went somehow too smooth, but hey, it was a nice talk of the town, PayPal, Paxos and F2pool had their publicity share. Who cares if it was good or bad in the eyes of PR. I'm kind of torn between disappointment and mild amusement about this exceptional blockchain event. And Paxos? Well, they say, your funds are safu... Sure, with such software quality... I get it!
September 15, 2023, 06:39:29 PM
It does bring an interesting issue for a small pool.
I wonder if this kind of actions would bring or open something like a "precedent" for other situations
It is not the first time that a return of this type has been done, but the media coverage that this particular case has captured the attention of the financial, technological and general bitcoin community.
The worry is that if we allow this now, it might lead to more situations like it in the future. Think about a situation where someone comes with arguments like Craig Wright did againts bitcoin developers, saying that miners should be responsible for users losses or helping them to recover their lost wallets...
Just image that.
My recommendation to miners would be not to return anything to people/corporations they need learn from their mistakes.
Regards!
Personally, I exclude that it was done for laundering.
The transaction was broadcast publicly. It absolutely was not done for money laundering purposes.I also didn't know what paypal is doing that is not good. can you please tell us what you are talking about paypal @o_e_l_e_o?
You can find thousands of examples of people having their accounts frozen and money seized while PayPal provide zero reasons why and also provide zero assistance. There was also the big issue recently where they changed their terms to allow them to confiscate users' money if those users said anything online that PayPal disagrees with: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/censorship-resistance-is-underrated-move-to-bitcoin-and-deletepaypal-5416501But anyway, the money has been refunded to Paxos: https://mempool.space/tx/1b9adb2878fce5cd1b6a11a011e3965f904829228d57cf90ca6731cd501890c6
I figured they would refund.
It does bring an interesting issue for a small pool.
https://pool.laurentiapool.org/#/work
if this small pool had hit it . the software auto sends to the four addresses that have mined to it.
so that 25 coin block would go to four people. take 180 blocks to clear. and paypal/paxos would need to talk to four people to get a refund. not the pool but the four that mine to it.
I live in U.S.A. I would not be able to simply return the 7 or so extra coins I got. My address is registered and is kyc. thus it would look like I had a large taxable income.
Today it has just happened and I do not think there will be any kind of refund anywhere.
F2Pool have already refunded the excess payment to Paxos. 
This is actually one of the very best definitions of shit happens. We all know how people can be dumb in the crypto industry when they don't realize what they are about to do and this is one example of it. that's why we always recommend people take preventive measures in order to save them from these kinds of accidents and there is no turning back with this because there is no undo in the Bitcoin transactions.
I remember years ago when I was a newbie here and also in the crypto industry. I asked a question from the novice poit of view and today I have seen it happen. I asked what happens if transaction fees is a way high, very higher than the amount of bitcoin that is been transacted. I remember I recieved an answer that the wallets are designed in such a way that such transactions will not go through. I didn't ask further questions because I didn't have enough knowledge to ask. Today it has just happened and I do not think there will be any kind of refund anywhere. 
Of course, this is not carelessness and negligence at all. Have to be blind or mentally retarded (I didn’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings or offend) for the sender to make such a mistake with the numbers. A person dealing with bitcoin is probably not one of them, if sender managed to figure out how it works.
It's hilarious that people who don't know how to save money, people who make such mistakes, are millionaires.In fact, I've read somewhere that it was a bot or some kind of system sending coins. Not sure if this is true or not, but in this case the devs should have been hanged by the balls by the management. So, blind, mentally retarded or a bot...
We should promote fair play in bitcoin and show the world that it's not every man for himself and not all of us are here to take each other's money.
Tx fee attached to a transaction is for the miner who adds the transaction to a block, it is the miners money. If you decide to or mistakenly send more than you should, it is still the miners money and that's the fee you agreed to pay for your tx to be mined. If one overpays in tx fees and the miner refuses to refund the excess amount, it isn't stealing or taking someone else's money.We should promote fair play in bitcoin and show the world that it's not every man for himself and not all of us are here to take each other's money.
Tx fee attached to a transaction is for the miner who adds the transaction to a block, it is the miners money. If you decide to or mistakenly send more than you should, it is still the miners money and that's the fee you agreed to pay for your tx to be mined. If one overpays in tx fees and the miner refuses to refund the excess amount, it isn't stealing or taking someone else's money. By the way, if I were F2Pool owner, I wouldn't refund transaction fees to Paxos. If it was a random guy, okay, I would be kind but financial institutes like PayPal and its partner Paxos, they deserve to pay for their mistakes. There is absolutely no reason for F2Pool to refund, who is here to determine whether that fee was a mistake or not? The fact is, you are the one who chooses to pay fees. I can make a transaction with $1000 fee and then cry and ask for refund, I can make a transaction with $10 fee and do the same. Also, the result of Twitter vote was Distribute it to miners.
And I'd subtract a finder's fee and return the rest. We should promote fair play in bitcoin and show the world that it's not every man for himself and not all of us are here to take each other's money.
I agree, Paxos made a mistake and they should pay for it, but why would we punish them so hard? Take 10% fee from them and return the rest. Their reputation is tarnished by this whole thing anyway, let's not kick them when they're down.
This is actually one of the very best definitions of shit happens. We all know how people can be dumb in the crypto industry when they don't realize what they are about to do and this is one example of it. that's why we always recommend people take preventive measures in order to save them from these kinds of accidents and there is no turning back with this because there is no undo in the Bitcoin transactions.
But anyway, the money has been refunded to Paxos: https://mempool.space/tx/1b9adb2878fce5cd1b6a11a011e3965f904829228d57cf90ca6731cd501890c6
It's such a weird thing to witness a transaction of this magnitude with a big fat zero fee attached to it. Take that, PayPal!
sounds like paypal owned funds stored in paxos, where paypal wanted to withdraw small amount from paxos, but paxos(the withdrawal service) sent out the small withdrawal amount but using a large utxo without using a change address for remaining unspent output balance
That's actually what happened and as I was expecting, Paxos said: This only impacted Paxos corporate operations, Paxos clients and end users have not been affected and all customer funds are safe.[source]They can't take care of their funds but they can take care of our funds, this sounds so funny.
By the way, if I were F2Pool owner, I wouldn't refund transaction fees to Paxos. If it was a random guy, okay, I would be kind but financial institutes like PayPal and its partner Paxos, they deserve to pay for their mistakes. There is absolutely no reason for F2Pool to refund, who is here to determine whether that fee was a mistake or not? The fact is, you are the one who chooses to pay fees. I can make a transaction with $1000 fee and then cry and ask for refund, I can make a transaction with $10 fee and do the same. Also, the result of Twitter vote was Distribute it to miners.
Personally, I exclude that it was done for laundering.
The transaction was broadcast publicly. It absolutely was not done for money laundering purposes.
Edit: Paxos have confirmed that they did the transaction and that it was a mistake: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/crypto-miners-debate-500k-bitcoin-063851495.html
I was wondering if the story of who actually did this will have come to light and here we have it.
Actually I am relieved that it wasn't a private person that didn't lose all their saving because of such a silly mistake because this could ruin you.
I also made costly mistakes years ago that still haunt me sometimes but something in this range would just devastating!
Personally, I exclude that it was done for laundering.
The transaction was broadcast publicly. It absolutely was not done for money laundering purposes.I also didn't know what paypal is doing that is not good. can you please tell us what you are talking about paypal @o_e_l_e_o?
You can find thousands of examples of people having their accounts frozen and money seized while PayPal provide zero reasons why and also provide zero assistance. There was also the big issue recently where they changed their terms to allow them to confiscate users' money if those users said anything online that PayPal disagrees with: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/censorship-resistance-is-underrated-move-to-bitcoin-and-deletepaypal-5416501But anyway, the money has been refunded to Paxos: https://mempool.space/tx/1b9adb2878fce5cd1b6a11a011e3965f904829228d57cf90ca6731cd501890c6
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