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Topic: Ouch, today someone made a transaction with over $500k fee. - page 3. (Read 1103 times)

legendary
Activity: 4326
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sounds like paypal owned funds stored in paxos, where paypal wanted to withdraw small amount from paxos, but paxos(the withdrawal service) sent out the small withdrawal amount but using a large utxo without using a change address for remaining unspent output balance

yep.

f2pool should upcharge at least 2 coins.

 i am in a very small pool that hits a block every 2 or 3 years.

I usually get 40% of the block and fees.

So 6+19=25 x 40% is 10 coins. about 7.2 would be the extra fee.

the other two miners in this pool would get

12 and 3 coins

pool is set up to auto send when block is hit so I would handle the ten coins. about 7.2 should go back to them.

but I would have to get a lawyer and special tax letters so That the irs does not try to tax the 7.2 I return.
legendary
Activity: 4424
Merit: 4794
sounds like paypal owned funds stored in paxos, where paypal wanted to withdraw small amount from paxos, but paxos(the withdrawal service) sent out the small withdrawal amount but using a large utxo without using a change address for remaining unspent output balance
hero member
Activity: 2212
Merit: 805
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I doubt it's an act of carelessness, anyone with that kind of a balance would at least know how and where to input the appropriate fees. It could be a way to donate a large sum to the bitcoin miners.

Here's a tx from 2016 that paid a 291.24 btc fee: https://www.blockchain.com/explorer/transactions/btc/cc455ae816e6cdafdb58d54e35d4f46d860047458eacf1c7405dc634631c570d this fee was worth 130k USD at that time as the BTC price was close to $441. Looking back now, this fee is worth 7.5m USD.

It might be a honest mistake maybe the user in question was in a hurry and didn't confirm all inputs to the transactions. For all we know, both cases might have been a mistake because I doubt the possibility of someone paying that much when the value being sent out is around 3/100 of the gas fee?  It can happen to anybody this is why it's a recommended practice to strictly verify all inputs before a transactions is sent out and broadcasted to a network.

Edit: Paxos have confirmed that they did the transaction and that it was a mistake: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/crypto-miners-debate-500k-bitcoin-063851495.html

Although they didn't disclose how it happened, my best guess  is that they made the transaction programmatically rather than a manual input.
full member
Activity: 448
Merit: 225
F2Pool owner is now asking the community what they should do with the funds: https://nitter.cz/satofishi/status/1702095123981738437#m

Given how much PayPal are more than happy to screw over regular people for literally no reason whatsoever, I have no strong feelings either way what happens here.

So is it PayPal or Paxos? According to a Cointelegraph article, Paxos admitted that they screwed up the transaction. But don't worry, they can just "print" more Pax dollars to cover the loss!  Cheesy


He taken an example of paypal, means something paypal is doing with people is way bad than those 19BTC or 500K.
I also didn't know what paypal is doing that is not good. can you please tell us what you are talking about paypal @o_e_l_e_o?
hero member
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F2Pool owner is now asking the community what they should do with the funds: https://nitter.cz/satofishi/status/1702095123981738437#m

Given how much PayPal are more than happy to screw over regular people for literally no reason whatsoever, I have no strong feelings either way what happens here.

So is it PayPal or Paxos? According to a Cointelegraph article, Paxos admitted that they screwed up the transaction. But don't worry, they can just "print" more Pax dollars to cover the loss!  Cheesy
hero member
Activity: 882
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Of course, this is not carelessness and negligence at all. Have to be blind or mentally retarded (I didn’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings or offend) for the sender to make such a mistake with the numbers. A person dealing with bitcoin is probably not one of them, if sender managed to figure out how it works.
It's hilarious that people who don't know how to save money, people who make such mistakes, are millionaires.

For likers of alternative versions. It could also be a way to launder money! Bitcoin pull will later return most of the btc fees clean and fresh mined bitcoins. Why not, right?
No, that would be the dumbest thing to do, even dumber than this mistake. This transaction gained a huge attention, right? So, if the person wanted to launder money, why would he/she make a transaction that would cause such a big attention? Now everyone knows about this transaction. Personally, I exclude that it was done for laundering.

F2Pool owner is now asking the community what they should do with the funds: https://nitter.cz/satofishi/status/1702095123981738437#m

Given how much PayPal are more than happy to screw over regular people for literally no reason whatsoever, I have no strong feelings either way what happens here.
There was a very interesting comment on that post that I want to quote:
Quote
If it's 100% verified that it was them and it was a clear mistake (which seems pretty obvious), then I'd avoid any civil disputes. Although, the neutrality of the network could be called to question in the future. I think a 50/50 split shows miner good faith while also punishing the mistake. It should be made clear that this is an act of kindness, not obligation, extended by the miners.
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 18771
F2Pool owner is now asking the community what they should do with the funds: https://nitter.cz/satofishi/status/1702095123981738437#m

Given how much PayPal are more than happy to screw over regular people for literally no reason whatsoever, I have no strong feelings either way what happens here.

do transactions like in this thread when a person mistakenly paid higher fees without knowing about it will get refund from miners?
No. You rely entirely on the good will of the mining pool operator, and they are under no obligation whatsoever to refund the fees.

or when the transaction is verified by an unknown miner then how can anyone will request for a refund and where will he find that unknown miner?
You can't, unless you can look at the address they received the block reward to and somehow track them down from that.

what if the miner denied to pay the refund? like if we lost our money then we can complaint to police, is there any authority in this type of case?
You can't contact the police because the miner did not steal anything. They simply mined your transaction, the fee of which you chose. If you chose the wrong fee, then that's your fault.

do the huge mistakenly sent transaction fee also shared between every miner of that pool?
Up to the pool operator, but generally yes.
legendary
Activity: 4424
Merit: 4794
do transactions like in this thread when a person mistakenly paid higher fees without knowing about it will get refund from miners?
to get the refund we need to send any request by messaging or emailing or it have any other platform? who will give the refund the pool if the transaction was verified by that pool or when the transaction is verified by an unknown miner then how can anyone will request for a refund and where will he find that unknown miner? what if the miner denied to pay the refund? like if we lost our money then we can complaint to police, is there any authority in this type of case?
do the huge mistakenly sent transaction fee also shared between every miner of that pool?

sorry for too many questions but you explain in understandable way so i asked.

there is no rule that says a pool should. its purely the morals and generosity of the pool to decide

as for claims. usually a erroneous sender has to contact the pool directly to plead, request, ask, beg for a refund..
where if generous, the pool would agree for the erroneous sender to sign a private message using the spending key to prove ownership of the spent funds. then the pool decides on its generosity (0%-10%-90%100%)

the miners(individual worker asics) dont have a say. its purely pool decision
full member
Activity: 448
Merit: 225
Quote from: o_e_l_e_o
snip
do transactions like in this thread when a person mistakenly paid higher fees without knowing about it will get refund from miners?
to get the refund we need to send any request by messaging or emailing or it have any other platform? who will give the refund the pool if the transaction was verified by that pool or when the transaction is verified by an unknown miner then how can anyone will request for a refund and where will he find that unknown miner? what if the miner denied to pay the refund? like if we lost our money then we can complaint to police, is there any authority in this type of case?
do the huge mistakenly sent transaction fee also shared between every miner of that pool?

sorry for too many questions but you explain in understandable way so i asked.
legendary
Activity: 4424
Merit: 4794
Wonder which wallet they are using to make these kind of blunders. I have used majority of the desktop wallets that are available in this space and you cannot make these silly mistakes using them, unless you use some mobile wallet and you are under the influence of alcohol or something similar you might make these mistakes.

They must've been using their own software and probably didn't have any proper measures, i.e. detection of unusually high fee etc.

so paxos admits to failure thus making claim. yet f2pool has not made any 19btc payout to any entity at the 3day deadline

I think the 3 day deadline was just for the sender to get in touch with them. Verifying, assessing risks and refunding could take longer than that. Plus BTC is fungible (the Monero crowd would disagree), so they can send it from/to any address.
I still can't wrap my head around on how can F2pool make such bold gesture without consulting with the miners' first, they should be entitled to the share of that fee after all.  

i wouldnt say bold(bald) i would say its a hairy situation for miners.
but miners are slaves to pools management. which is something miners should consider when thinking about which pool to be managed under. after all this may open up the other people saying they want refunds too because they paid too much fee after the fact, even on small satoshi amounts (though personally i think pools would ignore the small penny pinching refund claims and only do this gesture on obviously large mistakes)

but as for your "fungible" thing.. bitcoin is not fungible.
f2pool have transparent list of its addresses of its hot and cold wallet. and so far. even if they are not using the taint path of the coin fee spend error in new reward. they have not used any other coinrewards lump in their f2pool hoard yet
legendary
Activity: 2436
Merit: 1561
Wonder which wallet they are using to make these kind of blunders. I have used majority of the desktop wallets that are available in this space and you cannot make these silly mistakes using them, unless you use some mobile wallet and you are under the influence of alcohol or something similar you might make these mistakes.

They must've been using their own software and probably didn't have any proper measures, i.e. detection of unusually high fee etc.

so paxos admits to failure thus making claim. yet f2pool has not made any 19btc payout to any entity at the 3day deadline

I think the 3 day deadline was just for the sender to get in touch with them. Verifying, assessing risks and refunding could take longer than that. Plus BTC is fungible (the Monero crowd would disagree), so they can send it from/to any address.
I still can't wrap my head around on how can F2pool make such bold gesture without consulting with the miners' first, they should be entitled to the share of that fee after all.  

legendary
Activity: 4424
Merit: 4794
For likers of alternative versions. It could also be a way to launder money! Bitcoin pull will later return most of the btc fees clean and fresh mined bitcoins. Why not, right?

smart people who would use a mining pool to launder. would not pre-broadcast a tx to the entire network first. they would pushtx privately to a contracted mining pool thats in on the service.

then yes the pool would destroy the taint of the UTXO (destroy coin-age) and due to fee then being a "new coin reward" which would be part of new zero taint amount.. the pool would hand back to claimant funds as fresh coin..

however because the tx was broadcast publicly pre-confirm to the entire network. the sender had no control over which pool would collate it into their block. thus less logic/reason to believe it was a planned laundering

logically if you follow the data, its more likely a bad-practice of error (human or wallet code), making a tx which didnt spend funds properly thus leaving such a high fee due to not spending funds to enough outputs

legendary
Activity: 1792
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The bitcoin fees market is getting out of control. Someone must've been really in a hurry as they paid BTC19.82 (~$511,000) fee just to send $2k worth.
Jokes aside, probably a very painful mistake. I wonder how's it going to unfold and whether the miner will return it to the unlucky sender.

Source:
Explorers: https://twitter.com/whale_alert/status/1700920065934213256
Blockstream: https://blockstream.info/tx/d5392d474b4c436e1c9d1f4ff4be5f5f9bb0eb2e26b61d2781751474b7e870fd?expand
Blockchain.com: https://www.blockchain.com/explorer/transactions/btc/d5392d474b4c436e1c9d1f4ff4be5f5f9bb0eb2e26b61d2781751474b7e870fd

I doubt it's an act of carelessness, anyone with that kind of a balance would at least know how and where to input the appropriate fees. It could be a way to donate a large sum to the bitcoin miners.

Here's a tx from 2016 that paid a 291.24 btc fee: https://www.blockchain.com/explorer/transactions/btc/cc455ae816e6cdafdb58d54e35d4f46d860047458eacf1c7405dc634631c570d this fee was worth 130k USD at that time as the BTC price was close to $441. Looking back now, this fee is worth 7.5m USD.
Of course, this is not carelessness and negligence at all. Have to be blind or mentally retarded (I didn’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings or offend) for the sender to make such a mistake with the numbers. A person dealing with bitcoin is probably not one of them, if sender managed to figure out how it works.

For likers of alternative versions. It could also be a way to launder money! Bitcoin pull will later return most of the btc fees clean and fresh mined bitcoins. Why not, right?
legendary
Activity: 4424
Merit: 4794
F2Pool have said they will hold the funds for three days and return them to the rightful owner if claimed: https://nitter.cz/satofishi/status/1701042302238724512#m



ok now some highlights
F2pool said it would refund claimant.. yet easiet trick in the book is send funds back to the key of UTXO that spent it
[spoiler: f2pool didnt do the obvious refund trick]

instead f2pool co-mingled the fee overspend with its other coin rewards
https://www.blockchain.com/explorer/transactions/btc/12539f2c4a6f02bde482b730fea98a8980669bea4da9dd99db69aa6d2999a989
[spoiler: it didnt separate the funds for easy management.. but heaped it together with normal cold/hotwallets funds]
1GX28yLjVWux7ws4UQ9FB4MnLH4UKTPK2z (f2pool2 hotwallet for distribution)
1KFHE7w8BhaENAswwryaoccDb6qcT6DbYY (f2pool2 coldwallet for hoarding)

so paxos admits to failure thus making claim. yet f2pool has not made any 19btc payout to any entity at the 3day deadline
the most f2pool paid outwardly is ~17btc, but this ~17btc is a 14% take it always takes when distributing funds in ~127btc lumps of payouts.
https://www.blockchain.com/explorer/transactions/btc/bf3c5bc342eea3ab0d2e6ab34b12674aaaf400074a24157832c23555ee31528e
https://www.blockchain.com/explorer/addresses/btc/339PiqWnq6WcbXHb91PXfu4q18L9AiZDhK
hero member
Activity: 862
Merit: 662
Wonder which wallet they are using to make these kind of blunders. I have used majority of the desktop wallets that are available in this space and you cannot make these silly mistakes using them, unless you use some mobile wallet and you are under the influence of alcohol or something similar you might make these mistakes.

Those were automated transactions and the bug is actually weird the wallet had more than 60 thoussand transactions and as far we known this is the only mistake made by it.

 Huh Huh

What happend? well it should be nice heard that from those who work for Paxos to known what caused this error. As developer this should be more interesting.

Regards!
hero member
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The bitcoin fees market is getting out of control. Someone must've been really in a hurry as they paid BTC19.82 (~$511,000) fee just to send $2k worth.
Jokes aside, probably a very painful mistake. I wonder how's it going to unfold and whether the miner will return it to the unlucky sender.
Wonder which wallet they are using to make these kind of blunders. I have used majority of the desktop wallets that are available in this space and you cannot make these silly mistakes using them, unless you use some mobile wallet and you are under the influence of alcohol or something similar you might make these mistakes.

~
 but Paxos, who (allegedly) admitted to CoinTelegraph that the mistake was their own.
Not sure how they can make these blunders Cheesy.
legendary
Activity: 2436
Merit: 1561
Breaking: It was PayPal who overpaid $500k on transaction fees:

According to the cointelegraph article. linked by Lanatsa above:
https://cointelegraph.com/news/paxos-confirms-responsible-for-500k-mistaken-bitcoin-transaction it was not PayPal (as many initially thought) but Paxos, who (allegedly) admitted to CoinTelegraph that the mistake was their own.
legendary
Activity: 1568
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Breaking: It was PayPal who overpaid $500k on transaction fees:



He or She must be drunk will setting up that transaction since imagine how huge the fee he set up then for sure he is now so bothered with the money he lost out of that transaction. He should at least check the mempool to see what is the recommended fee to make his transaction fast but crazy things happen I guess this serves a lesson for him and for people which read his story since this is really a painful mistake done by holder.

Suddenly I feel less sympathetic for them. After all these years of limiting people's accounts for buying bitcoins and badmouthing BTC, now they got a taste of how bitter their own punishment really is. Of course, nobody deserves to lose $500k BTC to miners. It is now highly unlikely they will ever see that BTC from F2Pool again.
hero member
Activity: 862
Merit: 662
[tinfoil hat]Or maybe it's all just a marketing stunt to advertise the services of Paxos and F2Pool[/tinfoil hat]

Somone can said that there is no such thing as bad advertising.

But in this case the reputation of Paxos may be a little damage no? Or maybe not, the regulars users wont even notice this kind of news.

 Huh Huh Huh

Regards!
legendary
Activity: 2436
Merit: 1561
Here's the update of the said huge fees been accidentally sent out.

“Paxos overpaid the BTC network fee on Sept. 10, 2023. This only impacted Paxos corporate operations. Paxos clients and end users have not been affected and all customer funds are safe. This was due to a bug on a single transfer and it has been fixed. Paxos is in contact with the miner to recoup the funds.”

Source: https://cointelegraph.com/news/paxos-confirms-responsible-for-500k-mistaken-bitcoin-transaction

As long that miner would really be willing to give it back (which is likely) then i do agree that it wont really be that
bad on giving some $10k tip but i highly doubt that. lol

Thanks for sharing.
It makes sense now, given the huge number of transactions associated with that address, it was much more likely that it was a business rather than an individual sender.
So most likely they were using their own, buggy software to send transactions and calculate fees. Anyhow, it all looks like the story will reach a happy end.

[tinfoil hat]Or maybe it's all just a marketing stunt to advertise the services of Paxos and F2Pool[/tinfoil hat]
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