Topic: Palestine & israel? What do you think about that situation? - page 11. (Read 15030 times)
They've been going on for what seems forever now. This subject has reached a point that it only leaves me with an headache and wanting go out for a relaxing walk as I soak some sun.
the clear standard is the right to self determination. all saudi citizens have rights in their country. most palestinians living under israeli rule don't.
I am not a big fan of Saudi Arabia. But you can't compare Israel with Saudi Arabia. The Saudis never kicked out anyone and invaded their land.
The worshippers of hundreds of preIslamic Arabian gods who were forced to convert to Islam when Mecca was invaded. Their idols were ejected from the Kaaba and destroyed in one of those famously peaceful acts of multicultural tolerance Muslims are famous for. The occupation continues to this day.
I don't want to intrude this topic, however, just clarifying this part. If you want, it can be discussed further in Wilikon's thread about Islam.
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They thronged to this place annually and worshipped their personal gods, It was over Four Thousand years later that the last of the line of prophet (S), Muhammad Ibne Abdullah entered Makka triumphantly, went inside the Ka’aba and, with the help of his cousin and son in law ‘Ali Ibne Abi Talib, (as) destroyed all the idols of Ka’aba with their own hands.
They thronged to this place annually and worshipped their personal gods, It was over Four Thousand years later that the last of the line of prophet (S), Muhammad Ibne Abdullah entered Makka triumphantly, went inside the Ka’aba and, with the help of his cousin and son in law ‘Ali Ibne Abi Talib, (as) destroyed all the idols of Ka’aba with their own hands.
Thanks for confirming this is what happened.
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the clear standard is the right to self determination. all saudi citizens have rights in their country. most palestinians living under israeli rule don't.
I am not a big fan of Saudi Arabia. But you can't compare Israel with Saudi Arabia. The Saudis never kicked out anyone and invaded their land.
The worshippers of hundreds of preIslamic Arabian gods who were forced to convert to Islam when Mecca was invaded. Their idols were ejected from the Kaaba and destroyed in one of those famously peaceful acts of multicultural tolerance Muslims are famous for. The occupation continues to this day.
I don't want to intrude this topic, however, just clarifying this part. If you want, it can be discussed further in Wilikon's thread about Islam.
Quote
Historically when Ibrahim was ordered by Allah to build the Shrine for worship over a small he uncovered the original foundations of the Kaaba built by Adam. Ibrahim with the help of his son Ismael erected the new shrine on the same foundations.
Ever since, Ismael the son of Ibrahim who helped his father to build this place and his descendants remained the custodians of the Holy Shrine. History tells us that centuries passed and the guardianship of the Kaaba remained in the family of Ismael until the name of Abde Manaf came into the limelight. He inherited this service and made it much more prominent.
His son Hashim took this leadership and extended it to many other towns of Hejaz so much so that many pilgrims flocked annually to this place and enjoyed Hashims’s hospitality. A feast was given in honor of the pilgrims, food and water was served to all guests by the family of Hashim. This prominence created jealousy and his brother Abdu sham’s adopted son Ummayya tried to create trouble.
There was a dispute in which Ummayya failed and left Makka to settle down in the Northern provinces of Syria(Sham) currently known as Syria. After Hashim his brother Muttalib and after him Hashim’s son Shyba who became known as Abdul Muttalib assumed the leadership of the family. He organized feasts and supplies of water to the pilgrims during the annual festival of Pilgrimage to the Holy Shrine.
Prophet Ibrahim built this House for devout worship to one God. But within his lifetime people disobeyed his orders and began to put idols inside the Kaaba. Ibrahim had to clean the House of these idols and of Idle worshippers.
He told the people that this was a symbolic house of God. God does not live there for He is everywhere. People did not understand this logic and no sooner had Ibrahim died the people, out of reverence, filled the place with idols again.
They thronged to this place annually and worshipped their personal gods, It was over Four Thousand years later that the last of the line of prophet (S), Muhammad Ibne Abdullah entered Makka triumphantly, went inside the Ka’aba and, with the help of his cousin and son in law ‘Ali Ibne Abi Talib, (as) destroyed all the idols of Ka’aba with their own hands.
This was done in the 8th year of Hijra, (probably on January) 630 AD after the bloodless victory at Makka by the Prophet of Islam.
Ever since, Ismael the son of Ibrahim who helped his father to build this place and his descendants remained the custodians of the Holy Shrine. History tells us that centuries passed and the guardianship of the Kaaba remained in the family of Ismael until the name of Abde Manaf came into the limelight. He inherited this service and made it much more prominent.
His son Hashim took this leadership and extended it to many other towns of Hejaz so much so that many pilgrims flocked annually to this place and enjoyed Hashims’s hospitality. A feast was given in honor of the pilgrims, food and water was served to all guests by the family of Hashim. This prominence created jealousy and his brother Abdu sham’s adopted son Ummayya tried to create trouble.
There was a dispute in which Ummayya failed and left Makka to settle down in the Northern provinces of Syria(Sham) currently known as Syria. After Hashim his brother Muttalib and after him Hashim’s son Shyba who became known as Abdul Muttalib assumed the leadership of the family. He organized feasts and supplies of water to the pilgrims during the annual festival of Pilgrimage to the Holy Shrine.
Prophet Ibrahim built this House for devout worship to one God. But within his lifetime people disobeyed his orders and began to put idols inside the Kaaba. Ibrahim had to clean the House of these idols and of Idle worshippers.
He told the people that this was a symbolic house of God. God does not live there for He is everywhere. People did not understand this logic and no sooner had Ibrahim died the people, out of reverence, filled the place with idols again.
They thronged to this place annually and worshipped their personal gods, It was over Four Thousand years later that the last of the line of prophet (S), Muhammad Ibne Abdullah entered Makka triumphantly, went inside the Ka’aba and, with the help of his cousin and son in law ‘Ali Ibne Abi Talib, (as) destroyed all the idols of Ka’aba with their own hands.
This was done in the 8th year of Hijra, (probably on January) 630 AD after the bloodless victory at Makka by the Prophet of Islam.
One photo worth more than thousand words :
Well, that is a good point. The Palestinians are well known for relying on video cameras instead of violence. The fact that they're teaching their children to resist peacefully provides hope that peace may yet come if only the Israelis will put down their evil Jew guns and welcome their pacific Palestinian brothers.
[img ]http://s22.postimg.org/rig4y5x35/gaza_hamas_children.jpg[/img]
Hamas Charter: For our struggle against the Jews is extremely wide-ranging and grave, so much so that it will need all the loyal efforts we can wield, to be followed by further steps and reinforced by successive battalions from the multifarious Arab and Islamic world, until the enemies are defeated and Allah’s victory prevails. Thus we shall perceive them approaching in the horizon, and this will be known before long: “Allah has decreed: Lo! I very shall conquer, I and my messenger, lo! Allah is strong, almighty.”
hamas doesn't represent all the palestinien, like jews does not represent all the israelien. "Thus we shall perceive them approaching in the horizon, and this will be known before long: “Allah has decreed: Lo! I very shall conquer, I and my messenger, lo! Allah is strong, almighty.” Can you give me the link when you copied this two lines?
Hamas won an election. (One man! One vote! One time!) They're certainly not a fringe group.
Here's the link to the Hamas Charter:
http://www.thejerusalemfund.org/www.thejerusalemfund.org/carryover/documents/charter.html?chocaid=397
It's at the end of the Introduction. Let me know if you dispute that this is or was the Hamas Charter.
Now, see everyone. When someone asks a question or makes a specific point, I tend to respond to that question or point. Strange isn't it? Maybe you should see if you detect a pattern in the nature of my responses. Like, maybe if someone's just trolling by ignoring everything I write and just repeating the same "isreal invadud Palistinan!" bullshit, I think they're not worth responding to respectfully, like they're gelatinous mass incapable of coherent thought.
One photo worth more than thousand words :
Well, that is a good point. The Palestinians are well known for relying on video cameras instead of violence. The fact that they're teaching their children to resist peacefully provides hope that peace may yet come if only the Israelis will put down their evil Jew guns and welcome their pacific Palestinian brothers.
[img ]http://s22.postimg.org/rig4y5x35/gaza_hamas_children.jpg[/img]
Hamas Charter: For our struggle against the Jews is extremely wide-ranging and grave, so much so that it will need all the loyal efforts we can wield, to be followed by further steps and reinforced by successive battalions from the multifarious Arab and Islamic world, until the enemies are defeated and Allah’s victory prevails. Thus we shall perceive them approaching in the horizon, and this will be known before long: “Allah has decreed: Lo! I very shall conquer, I and my messenger, lo! Allah is strong, almighty.”
hamas doesn't represent all the palestinien, like jews does not represent all the israelien. "Thus we shall perceive them approaching in the horizon, and this will be known before long: “Allah has decreed: Lo! I very shall conquer, I and my messenger, lo! Allah is strong, almighty.” Can you give me the link when you copied this two lines?
One photo worth more than thousand words :
Well, that is a good point. The Palestinians are well known for relying on video cameras instead of violence. The fact that they're teaching their children to resist peacefully provides hope that peace may yet come if only the Israelis will put down their evil Jew guns and welcome their pacific Palestinian brothers.
Hamas Charter: For our struggle against the Jews is extremely wide-ranging and grave, so much so that it will need all the loyal efforts we can wield, to be followed by further steps and reinforced by successive battalions from the multifarious Arab and Islamic world, until the enemies are defeated and Allah’s victory prevails. Thus we shall perceive them approaching in the horizon, and this will be known before long: “Allah has decreed: Lo! I very shall conquer, I and my messenger, lo! Allah is strong, almighty.”
One photo worth more than thousand words :
Here's a map with the Muslim population of England in 2011 I found at Wikipedia. I could easily make similar maps for 1947 and 1967. We know what it will look like. Is it an invasion of England? At what pacific point will it qualify as an "invasion"?
Here's some stats on the cities in Europe with large Muslim populations. Are any of them being invaded based on your criteria?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_the_European_Union_by_Muslim_population
Amsterdam Netherlands 14%,[8] 24%[7]
Antwerp Belgium 16.9%[9]
Barcelona Spain
Berlin Germany 6%,[10] 9%,[11]
Birmingham UK 14.3%,[7] 15%,[4][5][12] 26.9%[13]
Blackburn UK 28.4%[13]
Bradford UK 15%,[12] 32.4%[13]
Brussels Belgium 15%,[4][5][12] 17%,[7][14] 25.5%[15]
Cologne Germany 12%[16][17][18]
Copenhagen Denmark 7%[4][5][12]
Frankfurt Germany 11.8%[19]
Haskovo Bulgaria 20%
Leicester UK 18.6%[13]
London UK 8.3%,[20] 8.5%,[7] 10%,[4][5][12] 13.1%[13]
Luton UK 24.6%[21]
Malmö Sweden 20%[4][12]
Manchester UK 15.8%[13]
Marseille France 20%,[7][12] 25%,[4][5][22] 35%[23]
Milan Italy 7% - 10%
Paris France 10%,[4] 15%[5][12] (10-15% in metro area)[7][22]
Rotterdam Netherlands 13%[7] 25%[4]
Roubaix France 20%[24]
Slough UK 23.3%[13]
Stockholm Sweden 20%
The Hague Netherlands 14.2%
Utrecht Netherlands 13.2%
Vienna Austria 8%[7] 10%[4]
do you know that israel is still invading the Palestine lands or not? I don't like the israeli politic about this fact.
Just because you say something doesn't make it a "fact".
Like, I could say I'm fucking your mother's corpse. It wouldn't make it a fact.
So are you saying that israelis are not (continuing) invading the Palestine lands? Then 'I am out"
it is really impossible to make a pacific conversation with you. Have a nice day and I don't want to put you in my ignore list (I prefer to read all the comment made by you). An ultimate thing: Here I'm not the nazi, maybe someone else... but not me 
.Israelis didn't "invade," but keep fucking that corpse. Maybe someday we can have a "pacific" conversation when you're drowning in the Pacific Ocean.
Are you really serious? Or just kidding?
Do those maps show an invading army or does it show the result of immigration? [Hint: It's immigration.] Why do you hate immigrants? Are you one of those people who thinks the Muslims are invading Western countries today just because they want to move there and live a better life? Not very pacific of you.
Like, I could say I'm fucking your mother's corpse. It wouldn't make it a fact.
I am not joking, your family must be really proud of you.
Hey, don't bring my family into this!
the clear standard is the right to self determination. all saudi citizens have rights in their country. most palestinians living under israeli rule don't.
I am not a big fan of Saudi Arabia. But you can't compare Israel with Saudi Arabia. The Saudis never kicked out anyone and invaded their land.
The worshippers of hundreds of preIslamic Arabian gods who were forced to convert to Islam when Mecca was invaded. Their idols were ejected from the Kaaba and destroyed in one of those famously peaceful acts of multicultural tolerance Muslims are famous for. The occupation continues to this day.
do you know that israel is still invading the Palestine lands or not? I don't like the israeli politic about this fact.
Just because you say something doesn't make it a "fact".
Like, I could say I'm fucking your mother's corpse. It wouldn't make it a fact.
So are you saying that israelis are not (continuing) invading the Palestine lands? Then 'I am out"
it is really impossible to make a pacific conversation with you. Have a nice day and I don't want to put you in my ignore list (I prefer to read all the comment made by you). An ultimate thing: Here I'm not the nazi, maybe someone else... but not me .Israelis didn't "invade," but keep fucking that corpse. Maybe someday we can have a "pacific" conversation when you're drowning in the Pacific Ocean.
Are you really serious? Or just kidding?
do you know that israel is still invading the Palestine lands or not? I don't like the israeli politic about this fact.
Just because you say something doesn't make it a "fact".
Like, I could say I'm fucking your mother's corpse. It wouldn't make it a fact.
So are you saying that israelis are not (continuing) invading the Palestine lands? Then 'I am out"
it is really impossible to make a pacific conversation with you. Have a nice day and I don't want to put you in my ignore list (I prefer to read all the comment made by you). An ultimate thing: Here I'm not the nazi, maybe someone else... but not me .Israelis didn't "invade," but keep fucking that corpse. Maybe someday we can have a "pacific" conversation when you're drowning in the Pacific Ocean.
Like, I could say I'm fucking your mother's corpse. It wouldn't make it a fact.
I am not joking, your family must be really proud of you.
the clear standard is the right to self determination. all saudi citizens have rights in their country. most palestinians living under israeli rule don't.
I am not a big fan of Saudi Arabia. But you can't compare Israel with Saudi Arabia. The Saudis never kicked out anyone and invaded their land.
do you know that israel is still invading the Palestine lands or not? I don't like the israeli politic about this fact.
Just because you say something doesn't make it a "fact".
Like, I could say I'm fucking your mother's corpse. It wouldn't make it a fact.
So are you saying that israelis are not (continuing) invading the Palestine lands? Then 'I am out"
it is really impossible to make a pacific conversation with you. Have a nice day and I don't want to put you in my ignore list (I prefer to read all the comment made by you). An ultimate thing: Here I'm not the nazi, maybe someone else... but not me . do you know that israel is still invading the Palestine lands or not? I don't like the israeli politic about this fact.
Just because you say something doesn't make it a "fact".
Like, I could say I'm fucking your mother's corpse. It wouldn't make it a fact.
(ISSYR) Israel was a country during the period from 720BCE to 605BCE.
The dates are chosen because 720BCE is when a certain Kingdom of Israel in that region was destroyed by the Assyrian empire, which itself fell in 605BCE. I assume your answer is probably no, because goddamn Jews.
(PCSR) Palestine has never been under independent self rule.
Can we at least agree on that?
Oh really? You want to go that far in the past?? So who exactly was living there and what did the jews coming from egypt do to them according to the old testament? Or you want to hash that out?
I assume you're referring to (ISSYR), though both statements are about the past. The purpose of (ISSYR) is to help determine how different people are using the word "country". By your response, I think you mean you wouldn't use "country" to refer to any "geopolitical entity" that existed before Year Y, where year Y is sometime after 605BCE. Correct?
(ISSYR) Israel was a country during the period from 720BCE to 605BCE.
The dates are chosen because 720BCE is when a certain Kingdom of Israel in that region was destroyed by the Assyrian empire, which itself fell in 605BCE. I assume your answer is probably no, because goddamn Jews.
(PCSR) Palestine has never been under independent self rule.
Can we at least agree on that?
Oh really? You want to go that far in the past?? So who exactly was living there and what did the jews coming from egypt do to them according to the old testament? Or you want to hash that out?
Quote
No one wants else wants to try to answer this? Is it because you all agree Palestine never was a country?
depends what definition of the world you're using but it wasn't a self governing entity with a distinct national identity separating its people from other arabs which is what you're obviously getting at. it did have borders and legislature and passports and currency and its citizens weren't turfed out by the rulers to make way for hook nosed brooklyn shlomos with m16s.I just want to congratulate all of you for having this guy on your side of the argument. I'm starting to think calling you guys Nazis is unfair to the Nazis. The Nazis had a fucked up ideology, but at least they had thought their fucked up ideology through. You guys can't even read the first fucking sentence of a Wikipedia article you link to.
PS: saddampduh, I'm laughing my ass off at what's happening to Greece. Keep fucking that chicken!
When was Palestine a country?
No one wants else wants to try to answer this? Is it because you all agree Palestine never was a country?
Yes it is obvious than Palestine was a country, read Wikipedia page (if you want).
When was Palestine a country?
No one wants else wants to try to answer this? Is it because you all agree Palestine never was a country?
Palestine was always a country. Ever heard about Mandatory Palestine?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Palestine
After the Ottomans were driven out of the Levant, Palestine was administrated as a British mandate. Also, notice that the name is "Palestine" and not Israel.
Now I really should want to know what J. J. Phillips will say regard this "incredible" news for him, do you know that Israel is still invading the palestinazi lands or not? I don't like the Israeli politic about this fact.
At least someone finally made an assertion. Did any of you read even the first sentence of the linked wikipedia page?
Quote
Mandatory Palestine[1] (Arabic: فلسطين Filasṭīn; Hebrew: פָּלֶשְׂתִּינָה (א"י) Pālēśtīnā (EY), where "EY" indicates "Eretz Yisrael" (Land of Israel)) was a geopolitical entity under British administration, carved out of Ottoman Southern Syria after World War I.
Why does it say "geopolitical entity" instead of "country" or "nation" or "state"? Strange, yes? If you read more you'll find it's clear why. Because it was not a country (in the sense of a "nation" or "state") during the post WW1 period. It was a territory under British rule. It's like saying the U.S. was a country before 1776. Or, even better, like saying Israel was a country when it was under Assyrian or Roman rule. Or maybe you believe those things.
Anyway, let's make the progress clear. Here's the assertion:
(PC19201948) Palestine was a country during the period from 1920 to 1948.
nazisn0w and bryant gumble declare this to be "true". I declare it to be "false". So at least we finally know one assertion we're disagreeing about.
I suppose I could think of examples where X was a country in Year 1, X was occupied by an external force during Year 2, and then X threw out the occupiers in Year 3. In that case, it's unclear whether X was a country during Year 2.
Here we have a case, however, where X was under the rule of an external force, then was under the rule of a different external force. In this case it's hard for me to see how X was a country at all. I assume you don't think a necessary criteria for something to be a country is that it was ever under independent self-rule.
This, of course, may be simply a difference in language. Maybe it was a sn0w-country but not a JJ-country. Let's try to clarify this by considering the following assertion.
(ISSYR) Israel was a country during the period from 720BCE to 605BCE.
The dates are chosen because 720BCE is when a certain Kingdom of Israel in that region was destroyed by the Assyrian empire, which itself fell in 605BCE. I assume your answer is probably no, because goddamn Jews.
(PCSR) Palestine has never been under independent self rule.
Can we at least agree on that?
the clear standard is the right to self determination. all saudi citizens have rights in their country. most palestinians living under israeli rule don't.
I would strongly oppose to that. For starters you just called them "Saudi" which literally reference the ownership of them by the oppressor of the same name.
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