Topic: Paycoin (XPY) is scam - page 3. (Read 79551 times)

Consumer protection advice when requesting a chargeback from GAW:

https://forum.gethashing.com/t/gaw-legal-credit-and-consumer-protection-rights-thread/2878




Hi Everyone,

I just got off of the phone with PNC Bank, to get clarification as to how you should approach your charge backs.

This pertains to Visas issued by banks:

Visa has a 120 day charge back window for "normal" charge backs. This particular GAW transaction has been classified non-standard. Under Visa's guidelines, non-standard charge backs have extension periods which are not fixed. In the case of fraud or failure to deliver the service as described, an extension period is fairly open to the credit card issuing bank's determination.

Approximately 4-5 weeks ago many of the banks were receiving charge back requests for GAW Miners. PNC began investigating the company and after finding the website gone, they began to dig deeper, including contacting the SEC on the status of the investigation, since this one of the main statements made by contesting card users.

According to PNC, Visa does NOT cover losses relating to INVESTMENTS. The main contention of the SEC is that Hashlets/Stakers are unregistered INVESTMENTS. However, since GAW is claiming that Hashlets/Stakers are not investments, consumers were purchasing another service unrelated to investments.

The banks are apparently pursuing this line to force charge backs with the processors (GAW side). When you call to charge back a GAW transaction, make sure you stay completely away from the word INVESTMENT. Most of the customer service reps are already aware of what is happening with GAW, since there has been a tsunami of recent activity and effort to charge back these transactions.

As others have already stated, you must state that it is GAW Miners and that they are under a FORMAL investigation by the SEC in order to connect the dots with your card issuing bank.

I cannot yet speak to Mastercard and Discover Card. I am calling Citibank next to get their position or the approach they have taken. Thus far, it appears that all of this has been well documented by the major credit card issuing banks.

Cheat Sheet:

    Purchased a product from GAW MIners.
    Confirmed, under a formal SEC investigation
    Product/Service has been stopped
    Company has stated that the service is being terminated or EOLed
    Did not receive the service as stated at the time of the sales process.

These are the top issues at hand. Do not go into anything further than this, as it only complicates the process. If they ask questions, think before you answer.

PNC indicated that they will not be sending any documentation for me to fill out, as they already have a "crib sheet" version they are using to support the charge backs. More than likely, your credit card issuing bank will have something similar.

For those who may have received rejection notices, you do have the right to appeal the decision. If you need a copy of the formal SEC subpoena, obviously all you have to do is ask here in the forums. Someone (@suchmoon) will be able to either upload it for you or send you a link to a copy.

Hopefully, this helps everyone through this process.




DISCOVER is requiring you to contact GAW Miners first to ask for a refund, and if you are unable to reach someone or they are unruly, then you contact DISCOVER back and they will begin the Dispute process.

The CSR lady, Pam, was very helpful and nice about explaining this to me. Also, DISCOVER generally asks that you dispute within 120 days of the transaction, HOWEVER, there is no set time limit in which you can dispute a charge.


    I noticed peoples cc providers asking for the Zenminer TOS.Can someone that has the original Zenminer TOS available, please post it for everyone?

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.8605520







 scribd.com/doc/260708659
16    bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=720844.msg8605520#msg8605520
12    /uploads/default/3666/c8250d9939660882.pdf
11    /uploads/default/3665/33a2cf4fd888de5c.pdf
5    archive.today/hashtalk.org
1    consumerfinance.gov
0    billmelater.com/about/index.xhtml
0    [WATCHLIST] GAWMiners, Paybase, ZenCloud
0    [WATCHLIST] GAWMiners, Paybase, ZenCloud
0    [WATCHLIST] GAWMiners, Paybase, ZenCloud
0    tdbank.com/tdhelps/default.aspx/dispute/v/38700376/
0    [WATCHLIST] GAWMiners, Paybase, ZenCloud
0    Image%202015-04-15%20at%203.13.05%20PM.png amazonaws.com
0    pressroom.target.com/news/target-announces-closing-of-credit-card-portfolio-sale
0    [WATCHLIST] GAWMiners, Paybase, ZenCloud
0    [WATCHLIST] GAWMiners, Paybase, ZenCloud
0    [WATCHLIST] GAWMiners, Paybase, ZenCloud
0    Probing a Lawsuit Against GAWminers et al
0    consumerfraudlegalservices.com/synchronybank.html
0    synchronyfinancial.com/contact-us.html

All that They are saying about the flaw in the floor idea is just shit ... once people sell the coins in paybase they become the bagholder and They just have to  put those coins again on the markets with a price higher that the floor , let's say 21$ , if someone buys those coins they are not going going to sell it for 20$ at paybase since they are going to loose money . So no infinite game here .
They only have to worry about the coins dumped from hashstakers and controllers , and since they can control the stake and how many coins are created massives dumps to empty his resources and damage the coin can be stopped , specially if the controllers (wich are the ones with real power to create problems with dumping) are supossed to be in hand of people that believe in the coin and support it like Garza said . So again no infinite game here .

This is how he chooses to spend the money he made through this fraud:







http://pastebin.aquilenet.fr/?51f62cf0c418a965#9CJgGcWQk3b1QOfMzczxEwByJdttx7SSkRNiZv5Gt04=

http://bitsofnews.net/gaw-stuart-fraser-cantor-fitzgerald-vaultbreakers-and-the-truth/

Many people bought in before launch when they couldn't see the code. On top of it, GAW didn't warn them that things weren't going to be 100% ready at launch and that the launch was actually an unmarked open Beta instead of a fully-finished product. The hype made it sound like everything was going to be at least basically functional within a month of launch and that there were real partners backing the coin. Nobody knew it was all fake and just assumed that they just didn't know all the details and that there would be clear info at launch (which is pretty common when a site is being released, actually).

The rage from GAW fans when they saw that they were misled was very real which led to the heavy censorship GAW is infamous for.  If not angry, they were confused and kept hoping they hadn't been hoodwinked and that it was just a "rough launch". The first month was full of dealing with the fallout from the bad launch. Even worse, a month or two after launch the TOS changed to absolve GAW of any responsibility in the coin and GAW didn't warn anyone that they changed it. Anyone who didn't cut and run within the first month pretty much was screwed.

http://bitsofnews.net/an-interview-with-josh-garzas-biggest-enemy/

I am really upset with Paycoin and Gaw..We lost voer 26 btc investing in Gaw miner hashlets and our paycoins are still stuck in the wallet with no help from support on how to get them out and now they are hardly worth didly-squat..another coin scam bites the dust. 

Well it's been in the code since launch, don't know why everyone resorted to garza before seeing all the claimed technology was fake. 

There is no flippin way paycoin will survive the scamming and drama. Its claim for fame will be achieving "The biggest altcoin scam ever" title.

How do you know is that really true? And is not that general pattern with all altcoin? Pump and dump, so every altcoin is a scam?

I wonder what XPY is going to drop down to. This would have to be a community effort, and from what I've seen is, to be able to keep XPY on top of the markets. But I think eventually people will get tired of it and it will be worth less than DOGE in a year or so. I kinda had this feeling when Josh Garza was hyping this coin up. Just one of those things people feel. Everyone has felt it one time or another.

As scams go, it preyed upon previous goodwill from looking like it was doing good work. Zencloud (mining owned by GAW) looked legit from the outside and people were making money slowly but surely from mining there. Everything was working as it said it would, so when the reliable-seeming GAW was making a coin of it's own and then started pumping hype in a lot of publications, naturally people got excited and wanted on board.

Can you blame people for wanting to jump on board what sounds like a good deal from a company that had not previously ripped you off? After all, people keep going to Walmart because they are "happy" with that they bought and don't care/believe that the company itself is a little shady even though Walmart has been known to sell counterfeit goods, abuse welfare while dodging taxes, and treat their workers badly.  How could a company that has made them happy and is respected by their friends/family be bad? Same principal with GAW.

It's just a case of people choosing money over ethics (on both sides!) or just plain not knowing/believing GAW had any shadiness because GAW had been good to them. In short, humanity isn't that dumb, however, it is selfish and tends to trust those who have been good to them over strangers. It's sad that common human survival instincts are a scammer's best friend.

People investing in coins like this makes me wonder if most of the humanity is actually dumb? I think only around 10% of the populations is smart enough for our survival as a race

https://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/lets-talk-bitcoin-203-digging-in

Adam speaks with Mike, editor-in-chief of Coinfire about the story of Coinfire and their investigation into Josh Garza, CEO of GAW Miner and founder of PayCoin. This episode is not to be missed.

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/19949/mississippi-power-company-suing-gaw-miners-350000/

Karma is a bitch not aint she

That muppet is just promoting his ponzi scam ref link and has no clue what thread he/she is in and what it's all about.

Now back on topic: Mr. Garza is getting squeezed by some other entities involved in Paycoin. The whole situation is very messy but from what little we know it looks like Mr. Garza is losing control and is throwing a tantrum. In an ironic twist he is now threatening his opponents with the SEC. Oh, and his power company is suing him for unpaid bills. Enjoy:

http://coinfire.io/2015/04/09/paycoin-and-josh-garza-crashes-down/
http://www.coindesk.com/gaw-miners-breach-contract/
http://coinfire.io/2015/04/09/gaw-sued-for-nearly-350000-in-federal-court/

Tis sad that trust is instilled in those that wish to only promote themselves, not the whole. Pity.

Viz.

Do you idiots just completely ignore the text above?

hoping the coin picks up again getting some good returns at the moment from the link in the signature crypto split

Aha, yes, I agree.  I stay away from all altcoins at the moment.  Once bitcoin rules the world then I'll become interested in what I might be able to get from an altcoin.  To me, at the moment, I find that circus very distracting.