Topic: [Payout Updates] Bitcoinica site is taken offline for security investigation (Read 156651 times)

For those of you who don't know yet PKFCR is the company handling the liquidation. For details please visit the thread that follows https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoinica-liquidator-wants-to-hear-from-users-126847

It will likely include the value of the coins rather than the coins themselves.  Typically, "things" or "property" are only returned if someone holds a secured interest over them.  Unsecured creditors generally receive a proportion of the value they are owed.

And yes, liquidation is a time consuming process. 

This seems like a time consuming task, and does this includes the coins 

If you haven't seen it:

Any word on this?

lol wait.. I change my nickname to that of the hacker for a few minutes as a joke, and this is what I get. Amazing to find this so much time later! I'm known and respected in the Bitcoin community guys, look me up in the OTC WoT. Other people were impersonating B1tcoinz for fun and making lulzy statements under that nick too, if needed I'll dig up the logs but I'm sure this "lead" hasn't gone anywhere.

thank you for update

Yes there's a formal process.  The liquidator isn't the liquidator until either a special resolution is signed by the partners or the company is out into liquidation by the NZ High Court.  Once that happens, the liquidator will contact all listed creditors and also publish a notice regarding the liquidation.  The claim form is very simple and some liquidators allow it to be lodged online. You generally have about 4 weeks to lodge your claim after that happens but the claims aren't formally verified until just before the liquidator is ready to make a distribution.  You'll receive periodic reports from the liquidator between the time when the company first goes into liquidation and the liquidation being finalised.

I have no doubt that once the liquidator is appointed, Tihan will make a post here advising people that the liquidation process is formally under way and giving the appropriate contact deals.  There is no point in contacting the liquidator prior to that as he will have no legal authority to deal with matters relating to Bitcoinica until formally appointed.

How can I get in contact with the liquidator? Is there a formal way for making fund claims in that process?

I'd gratefully not get back my $500 to see legal savagery directed at Strateman & Interscamgo.

 

My hunch is that any power plays will take place outside of the liquidation, although I'm only basing that on the fact that it's the way I'd choose to do it faced with the same set of circumstances.

Zhou might have a legitimate claim for wages and expenses for which he hasn't been reimbursed, but he'd be crazy as fuck to pursue that claim in the liquidation.  I also wonder whether Chris Heaslip may have some undisclosed financial interest - it seems very odd that his credit card details were stored in the Bitcoinica LastPass. 

Don't get me wrong, I think there's going to be blood-letting, but my impression is that Tihan wants to address the issue of returning user funds as much as possible before any legal savagery between the principals begins.

Thank you for the clarification. One can only hope that liquidation will speed recovery for the victims of this crime. And that Wendon, and any other organization affiliated with intersango or the brain trust behind this scam will stay far, far away from the settlements, instead of using the liquidation as a means of legitimizing their theft by creating an obligation to themselves with the shell game of ownership.

The company is being put into liquidation, not receivership.  It cannot be put into liquidation until either a special resolution is passed by the general and limited partners - the famous document which Tihan wanted the Intersango guys to sign at the London conference - or an order is made by the NZ High Court putting the company into liquidation.  So the next step is Wendon seeking an order from the NZ High Court to put Bitcoinica into liquidation (creditors could also seek such an order).  I have no doubt whatsoever that Wendon will proceed with this step.

Although claims are submitted early in the process (usually within a month of the liquidator being appointed), they're not usually formally validated until the liquidator has recovered funds and is ready to disburse them.  This is to save on liquidator's fees.  The liquidator will check any claims against the company's records.  Disputed claims cannot be paid so if there is a dispute about the amount owed, agreement on the value of the claim needs to be reached with the liquidator.

One important point to note is that users will need to give the liquidator their real life details in order to make a claim.  The claim form is standardised and very short.  You can submit your supporting evidence with your claim but it's not necessary to do so - the form asks you to describe the evidence you have, though.

The increase in the price of BTC since Bitcoinica ceased operating may mean that there are now sufficient funds to meet the claims if the liquidator values BTC still owed at ~USD 5 as Bitcoinica did when they began the refund process.  If there are insufficient funds to meet all claims and claw back is not appropriate or viable, it's possible that some people who have already received a partial payment will have their claims subordinated - ie, they will receive no further payments until all users have received a payment of at least the same proportion (in egregious cases of inappropriate preferential payment, a claim can be made totally subordinate and not eligible for payment until all other claims have been paid in full) .

Although the liquidator should have a good idea of what funds will be available quite early on, the state of the financial records could be an issue - the liquidator must satisfy himself that they were reconstructed fairly and accurately.

One thing which could slow the process down is a finding of personal liability on the part of the principals and a decision by the liquidator to take legal action against them.  This is not generally pursued unless there is a significant likelihood of legal action recovering substantial funds for the benefit of creditors.  

Based on what Tihan has posted previously, Wendon is a secured creditor but will be waiving its right to be treated as such in the liquidation.  They will also be entitled under NZ law to be treated as a preferential creditor due to their role in recovering and securing some of the funds which were lost in the MtGox intrusion, but Tihan has not yet indicated whether they will be claiming that status.  The tone of Tihan's posts regarding the liquidation strongly suggests that he views the liquidation as the means to return user funds and that other means may be used to pursue Wendon's claims.

Thanks for the reply... it's a small amount I can live without 

I'm much more concerned about people depositing large sums of funds into Intersango. Way less to steal in domain names. And,pretty much everyone in the registrar business is a scumbag, so zhou tong should fit right in.

Hacker news?!! How fitting. Hackers have their own forum of course! Now I really feel robbed.

He plugs his service all the time on Hacker News. I wonder what he's planning to do with all the domains his users are buying him.

What can be done to inform new customers of the risk of that new project of Zhou's? Are there any NameTerrific forums? I don't want others to pay for a service of someone so "careless" as to not protect a million dollar trading platform from  harm (himself).

Aside from that, what is wrong with claiming a refund from Zhou personally from his future income as long as his debt is paid off? This is how capitalism works, right? Debt doesn't go anywhere for many decades. I don't see why it should simply be foregiven here.

For once, Loup is right.

And we still sit idly by as phantomcircuit pushes Interscamgo on unsuspecting noobs on IRC.

This is not a matter of incompetence on Zhou Tong's part. That dude straight jacked our money. He was cashing out in a hurry as much as he could, and then got caught stealing more. This company was setup from the get go for that purpose.