Perpetual motion device - Free Energy - Do you believe in it?

crumbs

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In the map below, the pink squares represent the area required to power the entire world with another alternative energy source -- atomic power.

The World As We Know It
Pink squares represent atomic power plants

_________________________________________________

Atomic energy has been hounded by the oil industry and its liberal stooges in politics & the media since day one. Promising projects such as the revolutionary Ford Nucleon, the stylish car powered by a portable fission reactor, mysteriously lingered in dusty design studios. The project was inexplicably abandoned, with key development personnel meeting with eyebrow-raising career impasses. Resigned to the trash heap of history, this pinnacle of auto engineering was recently unearthed by an intrepid reporter.
Faqu, Liberals, you can't hide the Truth!

Ford Nucleon. Identity of the whistleblower, seen here partially
obscured by the prototype, remains unknown Angry

_________________________________________________

Nothing lay outside of Oil Industry's greedy grasp -- not even our once-mighty military. The daring NB-36H Atomic Bomber project was scuttled in its nascent stages, along with its Soviet counterpart.

Eco-Friendly NB-36H
Note lack of chemtrails.

Dabs

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Just look at solar. There are pictures on the interwebs that show that we only need a few solar panels in some places. Like this:

If we put solar panels on the black dots, we can power the world. For now.

crumbs

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Quote from: ElectricMucus on September 29, 2013, 03:22:35 PM

Quote from: crumbs on September 29, 2013, 02:37:02 PM

~1366 watts per square metre *at the top of the earth's atmosphere*. By the time we dfilter down to breathin' level, we've got droppings & leavings. Then there's the ~15% panel efficiency, ~80% conversion efficiency, ?% storage efficiency, cat food & other expenses -- not lookin' gud Sad

Since this thread is more or less about alternative energy sources, that 15% panel efficacy can be dramatically improved, with nantennas. Molecular scale antennas imprinted on a metal foil. They are not subject to the Carnot limit (allegedly). They already work but we cannot rectify the energy yet to utilize it as electricity, But even if it were possible to utilize half of their output it would mean 50% efficiency and cheap and flexible enough to use it everywhere we live.

I'm sure it's theoretically possible, but we'll still have "unavoidable" problems in practice -- silly stuff like high production costs, maintenance, lifespan (if these (monomolecular?) antennae don't regenerate themselves, dirt & wind & stuff will quickly muck them up). On the other hand, stuff like wind, hydro & coal are already solar -- we just had nature turn solar energy into something more usable for us

It would be interesting to find something that's organic & easily scalable, some weird genetically engineered algae that eat water, minerals & sunlight... I keep coming back to "nature sort'a does that already." Biosphere provides

ronimacarroni

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Quote from: ElectricMucus on September 28, 2013, 05:15:23 PM

Quote from: ronimacarroni on September 28, 2013, 05:10:25 PM

sort of

Which is powered by the enthalpy between the ambient air and the water.
So not even close.

I have an idea.
Make a giant drinking bird and put it next to a lake.
Free energy! Grin

ElectricMucus

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Quote from: crumbs on September 29, 2013, 02:37:02 PM

~1366 watts per square metre *at the top of the earth's atmosphere*. By the time we dfilter down to breathin' level, we've got droppings & leavings. Then there's the ~15% panel efficiency, ~80% conversion efficiency, ?% storage efficiency, cat food & other expenses -- not lookin' gud Sad

Since this thread is more or less about alternative energy sources, that 15% panel efficacy can be dramatically improved, with nantennas. Molecular scale antennas imprinted on a metal foil. They are not subject to the Carnot limit (allegedly). They already work but we cannot rectify the energy yet to utilize it as electricity, But even if it were possible to utilize half of their output it would mean 50% efficiency and cheap and flexible enough to use it everywhere we live.

ElectricMucus

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Yeah, mining, or wasting energy as a form of a contest is unsustainable either way. It doesn't really matter how much energy we would have since the contest is tied to the cost of the energy.
Even if we had thorium reactors or even fusion power it wouldn't be enough. We'd probably make ourself extinct by heating the atmosphere beyond our living conditions.

1kW is an average solar radiance during daytime, of course it's higher on the equator and lower at the poles and varies during seasons. That's why I said use one hour a day.
It's also more like a rule of thumb.

e: You're right, it's not an average which is 250w/m2, well there is 2400x margin for error in my estimation. Wink

crumbs

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Quote from: ElectricMucus on September 29, 2013, 02:21:23 PM

Currently there are 21138 sqm of land mass per Person.
If we leave out 50% of that for wilderness and utilize 1% that would be 105.69sqm of solar power on average.
If we utilize that only one hour a day that would still be 4.4kW of continuous power. I also left a 2400x margin.

Once you factor in the oldskool miners that will go online -- your margin is gone Sad

Of course, i'm lazy & didn't bother to verify any of your numbers. Where are you getting the power per square meter? What does it represent? Average over day/night/season/rain/shine/equator/pole? Or?

Edit: Do you mean KW/hr per sq. meter or?
Edit2: I learned the awkward-sounding word "insolation," not to be confused with insulation, which sounds fine. And that your numbers are way off Sad

Edit3: ~1366 watts per square metre *at the top of the earth's atmosphere*. By the time we dfilter down to breathin' level, we've got droppings & leavings. Then there's the ~15% panel efficiency, ~80% conversion efficiency, ?% storage efficiency, cat food & other expenses -- not lookin' gud Sad

ElectricMucus

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Currently there are 21138 sqm of land mass per Person.
If we leave out 50% of that for wilderness and utilize 1% that would be 105.69sqm of solar power on average.
If we utilize that only one hour a day that would still be 4.4kW of continuous power. I also left a 2400x margin.

crumbs

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Quote from: ElectricMucus on September 29, 2013, 01:54:54 PM

Quote from: Rassah on September 29, 2013, 01:45:28 PM

Quote from: Meizirkki on September 29, 2013, 12:33:48 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

If someone eventually does succeed in producing large quantities of alternative Energy not dependable on water, wind or the sun mankind will make great leaps. It opens a whole new dimension and a floating city's or space travel are some of the options.

If every one of you focused on getting energy from water, wind and the sun the mankind might take a leap or two.

That's not enough energy to make a leap

But it gets us quite a long way. The energy solar radiation is approx 1kW/sqm an there are only a few applications which consume power at an higher density.

Yeah, but if we use up the precious solar energy, the trees will stop making us oxygen to breathe & wood to burn, the rivers will stop powering our hydroelectric powerplants & making us electricity, the wind will stop blowing & we'll turn pale & gross like goth kids or naked rat moles. And other stuff.
Boo!

ElectricMucus

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Quote from: Rassah on September 29, 2013, 01:45:28 PM

Quote from: Meizirkki on September 29, 2013, 12:33:48 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

If someone eventually does succeed in producing large quantities of alternative Energy not dependable on water, wind or the sun mankind will make great leaps. It opens a whole new dimension and a floating city's or space travel are some of the options.

If every one of you focused on getting energy from water, wind and the sun the mankind might take a leap or two.

That's not enough energy to make a leap

But it gets us quite a long way. The energy solar radiation is approx 1kW/sqm an there are only a few applications which consume power at an higher density.

Rassah

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Quote from: Meizirkki on September 29, 2013, 12:33:48 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

If someone eventually does succeed in producing large quantities of alternative Energy not dependable on water, wind or the sun mankind will make great leaps. It opens a whole new dimension and a floating city's or space travel are some of the options.

If every one of you focused on getting energy from water, wind and the sun the mankind might take a leap or two.

That's not enough energy to make a leap

Meizirkki

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Quote from: ?? on ??

If someone eventually does succeed in producing large quantities of alternative Energy not dependable on water, wind or the sun mankind will make great leaps. It opens a whole new dimension and a floating city's or space travel are some of the options.

If every one of you focused on getting energy from water, wind and the sun the mankind might take a leap or two.

crumbs

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Quote from: manfred on September 29, 2013, 11:57:54 AM

Quote from: crumbs on September 29, 2013, 11:50:44 AM

I propose a revolutionary new energy source -- The Spider Generator.
It works thusly:
1. Capture a spider, who spins very strong & lightweight strand of web.

2. Attach the end of the web fiber to a rocket.
3. Point the rocket at a black hole, hide in bunker, countdown to zero & press big red button.
4. Wait, as the spider spins & the rocket zooms toward the Black Hole. Eat plenty of snacks & remember to feed your spider.
5. Before the rocket reaches the hole's event horizon, wrap the web strand around the shaft of a generator, so the shaft spins as the web is fed out.
6. Remember to feed the spider -- this is important!
7. As the rocket passes the event horizon, apply electrical load to generator.
8. The hole will continue sucking the web thread forever, feeding on the thread & powering the generator.
9. You will have to keep feeding your spider yourself, keeping him happy & spinning.
10. Eco-friendly gravity-driven symbiotically-profitable & humane energy source (we love the spider)

You where doing so well, then cam point 6.....so much for the new revolutionary energy source.

As long as (energy in)<(energy out), i'm fine. Black holes suck more than my spider eats Cool

Edit: If you're arachnophobic, there's always Maxwell's Demon

manfred

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Energy is Wealth

Quote from: crumbs on September 29, 2013, 11:50:44 AM

I propose a revolutionary new energy source -- The Spider Generator.
It works thusly:
1. Capture a spider, who spins very strong & lightweight strand of web.

2. Attach the end of the web fiber to a rocket.
3. Point the rocket at a black hole, hide in bunker, countdown to zero & press big red button.
4. Wait, as the spider spins & the rocket zooms toward the Black Hole. Eat plenty of snacks & remember to feed your spider.
5. Before the rocket reaches the hole's event horizon, wrap the web strand around the shaft of a generator, so the shaft spins as the web is fed out.
6. Remember to feed the spider -- this is important!
7. As the rocket passes the event horizon, apply electrical load to generator.
8. The hole will continue sucking the web thread forever, feeding on the thread & powering the generator.
9. You will have to keep feeding your spider yourself, keeping him happy & spinning.
10. Eco-friendly gravity-driven symbiotically-profitable & humane energy source (we love the spider)

You where doing so well, then cam point 6.....so much for the new revolutionary energy source.

crumbs

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Activity: 210

Merit: 100

I propose a revolutionary new energy source -- The Spider Generator.
It works thusly:
1. Capture a spider, who spins very strong & lightweight strand of web.

2. Attach the end of the web fiber to a rocket.
3. Point the rocket at a black hole, hide in bunker, countdown to zero & press big red button.
4. Wait, as the spider spins & the rocket zooms toward the Black Hole. Eat plenty of snacks & remember to feed your spider.
5. Before the rocket reaches the hole's event horizon, wrap the web strand around the shaft of a generator, so the shaft spins as the web is fed out.
6. Remember to feed the spider -- this is important!
7. As the rocket passes the event horizon, apply electrical load to generator.
8. The hole will continue sucking the web thread forever, feeding on the thread & powering the generator.
9. You will have to keep feeding your spider yourself, keeping him happy & spinning.
10. Eco-friendly gravity-driven symbiotically-profitable & humane energy source (we love the spider)

crumbs

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Quote from: Meizirkki on September 29, 2013, 08:39:11 AM

...
Wikipedia gets it right in their World Wireless System -article,

Thanks for the interview link -- never seen that before, bookmarked.

And i agree, wikip is all over the place on Tesla, with individual articles contradicting each other.

b!z

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I believe in it, just like I believe in everything Dank says.

Meizirkki

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telluric_current Wink

plug two wires into earth and you have free energy

[/not sarcastic] Some early telegraph stations were powered this way.

Dabs

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I think the closest thing to a practically usable almost perpetual energy source are those renewable ones: solar, wind, geothermal, gravity, tides, earths magnet. Dyson spheres around the sun, or satellites around the earth like in Gundam 00.

I've had this idea for a long time, but need to actually do it to test it, despite all the signs pointing to "it won't work". Basically, you chain a bunch of gen sets and motors together. Or a bunch of UPS.

Probably won't work, but I'd like to see how long it lasts.

Meizirkki

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Quote from: crumbs on September 29, 2013, 07:48:33 AM

Finally, i hope you have read my post in its entirety. I'm not trying to make Tesla out to be a loon. He's someone i admire.

yes, I did. I wasn't challenging you, only questioning your cite.

Tesla has indeed been a crack magnet, for much much longer than the internet has existed. Many old books get things wrong about him too, some which wikipedia use as citations. The only sources I consider very reliable are interviews and patents, plus other documents where Tesla himself has had the chance to state things by himself.

For example, his magnifying transmitter and the rest of the "world system" he planned have been taken out of context countless of times throughout the history and if you look into some of the perpertual motion communities in the web, they have a lot of credible looking citations that basically say "it works but nobody knows how". It just so happens that Tesla himself was interviewed about it during his lifetime, and that interview is available in some e-books too. Tesla's own words leave no room for anything magical about it, but rarely does anyone choose to cite Tesla instead of a random "Tesla researcher".

EDIT: Here's the interview I'm talking about
NIKOLA TESLA ON HIS WORK WITH ALTERNATING CURRENTS
and Their Application to Wireless Telegraphy, Telephony and Transmission of Power : An Extended Interview

Wikipedia gets it right in their World Wireless System -article,

Topic: Perpetual motion device - Free Energy - Do you believe in it? (Read 14027 times)