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Topic: Peter Zeihan - in a world of carbon taxes, cryptos net worths is negative (Read 349 times)

member
Activity: 280
Merit: 30
Notice: The tracking was only to a single miner, any additional mined coins from other satoshi rigs would have escaped detection.
You know that there were others mining in 2009, right? Don't believe everything you read on the internet. Pseudo-evidence isn't science.

Ugh. Derailed another thread with this idiot. Apologies, I'll stop.

Satsohi mined 1.8 milllion coins from 1 rig , are you so clueless that you really only believe he was running only 1 rig.
Odds are he was running a minimum of 4 rigs and possibly 8 rigs.(Anyone sharing a blockchain is running a minimum of 4 nodes especially in the old days.)
So his real bitcoin total is most likely over 7.2 million bitcoins.

Yes showing how stupid you are is derailing the topic.



So to get back on topic,

Peter Zeihan has stated Bitcoin is a Dumpster Fire.
https://coinpedia.org/opinion/geopolitical-strategist-and-author-peter-zeihanpeter-zeihan-thinks-bitcoin-is-dumpster-fire/
Quote
Peter said, “so the boomers right now are in the most liberal investment environment of their lives they’re the largest generation this world has ever had so capital costs for the last couple years have been the lowest they’ve ever been and in a couple years they’ll be the lowest they’ve ever been and in a couple years they’ll be the lowest they’ve ever been and in a couple years they’ll be going to be very very high because all that boomer liquid capital is going to go away it’ll be locked into t-bills in cash.”


Quote
Why Bitcoin is Heavily Reliant on Government Laws!

Bitcoin is emerging in this environment where money is free; it will not be here in a couple of years; it is not a store of value; it is not a method of exchange; it is not readily shiftable into the real economy. We’ve discovered with the Russian sanctions that it is completely reliant on the normal financial system for access. This means it is vulnerable to anything the government might do; it has already been banned in ten of the world’s top twenty economies; and in terms of currency. If you ever get a carbon tax it will be having a negative value so yes there’s nothing about bitcoin that’s been here for a long now as mentioned by Peter.

Quote
He pointed out the recent global situations where anyone living in a war zone country like Ukraine where people are fleeing and cannot access the ATM, here Bitcoin comes as a savior as if they can get across the borders they can easily access their private wallet from anywhere and that’s what brings the Bitcoin on the radar of government regulations and that’s why it is being banned in many countries. It is a sure-shot case of money laundering and it’s certainly not good enough to be used regularly in any sort of civilized system.

FYI: Carbon Taxes will mainly screw over Proof of Waste coins such as btc and ltc.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 7340
Farewell, Leo
Notice: The tracking was only to a single miner, any additional mined coins from other satoshi rigs would have escaped detection.
You know that there were others mining in 2009, right? Don't believe everything you read on the internet. Pseudo-evidence isn't science.

Ugh. Derailed another thread with this idiot. Apologies, I'll stop.
member
Activity: 280
Merit: 30
He's worse than CSW fangirls... Roll Eyes

Says another cult member, did you car pool with black kat and wind-stink.

https://www.banklesstimes.com/how-many-bitcoins-does-satoshi-nakamoto-have/
I would not know, since I am right and you are just a paid PoW shilling nutjob.
I earn 0 from Proof-of-Work supporting companies like Blockstream.

 Cheesy
Yeah right you spend all of these years and all of those other alts, and you don't get paid by blockstream or join in their little btctalk club member meetings.

Go find the evidence that Satoshi owns millions of coins yourself, as you claim to be so smart.
There are none.

If you read the top reply , you're feeling pretty duh, right now.
Close your eyes and pretend Satoshi had no bitcoins, and was the savior you dreamed he was.  Cheesy



Any jackass can create a proof of waste coins using btc or ltc model and immediately merge mined with them.
Now you're just throwing random terms just to seem knowledgeable. Any developer can create Proof-of-Work based cryptocurrencies, but he needs to either acquire computational power or convince others spend it for his network's security, none of which is attractive in comparison with just minting coins without the work.

Any Jackass can setup PoW merge mining , even you.
https://academy.binance.com/en/glossary/merged-mining
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Merged mining refers to the act of mining two or more cryptocurrencies at the same time, without sacrificing overall mining performance. Essentially, a miner can use their computational power to mine blocks on multiple chains concurrently through the use of what is known as Auxiliary Proof of Work (AuxPoW).

Doge currently merges mined on LTC, and plans to dump the crap Proof of Waste mining before the global Bans ,
Doge will be evolving to Proof of Stake for the higher security , faster performance, and energy efficiency , oh and to avoid the coming PoW bans.
 
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 7340
Farewell, Leo
I would not know, since I am right and you are just a paid PoW shilling nutjob.
I earn 0 from Proof-of-Work supporting companies like Blockstream.

Go find the evidence that Satoshi owns millions of coins yourself, as you claim to be so smart.
There are none.

Any jackass can create a proof of waste coins using btc or ltc model and immediately merge mined with them.
Now you're just throwing random terms just to seem knowledgeable. Any developer can create Proof-of-Work based cryptocurrencies, but he needs to either acquire computational power or convince others spend it for his network's security, none of which is attractive in comparison with just minting coins without the work.
sr. member
Activity: 1666
Merit: 310
He's worse than CSW fangirls... Roll Eyes
member
Activity: 280
Merit: 30
You ignore any evidence put in front of you
Shut your mouth for once, and show me the evidence that Satoshi owns a million coins.

Every developer with any intellect is switching to Proof of Stake
Ever thought that Proof-of-Stake is attractive to developers, because they're the first to acquire most of the coins? Ever thought that it requires no investment either? Securing a brand new protocol with Proof-of-Work requires purchase of expensive infrastructure and energy spending.

Next is where you lie, and say BTC PoW is the best and the crap can barely get 7 transactions per second, Lame Tech.
Ever thought that Proof-of-Work has absolutely nothing to do with the transaction capacity?

Congrats, though. Being so wrong about something must take effort.


I would not know, since I am right and you are just a paid PoW shilling nutjob.

Go find the evidence that Satoshi owns millions of coins yourself, as you claim to be so smart.  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Any jackass can create a proof of waste coins using btc or ltc model and immediately merge mined with them.
The fact no one bothers anymore shows everyone knows PoW is dying.  Cheesy

Want to explain why btc PoW model is so pathetic it is limited to 7 onchain transactions per second.  Smiley
Include Blockstream in your answer,  Wink
legendary
Activity: 2338
Merit: 1775
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Im a fan of Peter Zeihan and in general agree with many of his arguments, such as China collapsing by 2030 due to demographics and Germany falling down the economic ladder fast due to its reliance on ever-more expensive fossil fuels. So that's why Im torn on his views on crypto - hes usually right.

He goes on to say "crypto is the poster child for the environment from 1990 - 2022 when we had unlimited volumes of capital. Now with that the money is going away, crypto is going away"

My take on this is that yes, while there will be less capital going forward, fiat is still created at the whim of commercials banks, therefore the idea of a digital cash that cant be debased is a powerful one. On future carbon taxes, which I agree with, the bitcoin network can easily operate on a fully renewable grid - the problem with renewables is they are intermittent and the energy requires storage. Neither of these limitations apply to the Bitcoin network.

at 53min 20 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHUoMmKDLUI



Peter Zeihan is a very intelligent and original philosopher and futurist, but I disagree with many of his conclusions. 

Yes, China has a very large population.  So far, however, China has been very successful in meeting all strategic challenges.  The history of China is 5,000 years old.  China is incredibly antifragile (to use the terminology of the philosopher and writer Nassim Taleb). 

The situation is similar with Germany.  Germany is a great country in which people are very smart, disciplined and focused on the development of scientific and technological progress.  Such a country will never abandon the industrial path of development and switch to growing vegetables. 

As for Bitcoin, its significance for Humanity is enormous.  In the context of the collapse of globalization, only Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies can provide economic interaction between citizens of different countries.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 7340
Farewell, Leo
You ignore any evidence put in front of you
Shut your mouth for once, and show me the evidence that Satoshi owns a million coins.

Every developer with any intellect is switching to Proof of Stake
Ever thought that Proof-of-Stake is attractive to developers, because they're the first to acquire most of the coins? Ever thought that it requires no investment either? Securing a brand new protocol with Proof-of-Work requires purchase of expensive infrastructure and energy spending.

Next is where you lie, and say BTC PoW is the best and the crap can barely get 7 transactions per second, Lame Tech.
Ever thought that Proof-of-Work has absolutely nothing to do with the transaction capacity?

Congrats, though. Being so wrong about something must take effort.
sr. member
Activity: 1666
Merit: 310
member
Activity: 280
Merit: 30
Satoshi still has millions of BTC stashed away that no one knows of.
Evidence isn't your strong point, is it?

You ignore any evidence put in front of you , if it is not btc cult propaganda , so why waste my time, you're still be delusional.  Kiss




Plus calling Proof of Stake "better" than Proof of Work merely because it's "wasteful" shows that the person doesn't understand that Proof of Stake is a system for consensus by comittee. Proof of Stake will always be inferior than Proof of Work. It's simply the truth, ask any capable developer who is not a charlatan.

 Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

You and your Black Kat, both start your btc proof of waste shilling shift at the same time.
Every developer with any intellect is switching to Proof of Stake, the only charlatans I see are you Proof of Waste promoters.
Notice there are no new PoW coins for years, it is because proof of waste is a dying tech, and everyone with a brain knows it.

Next is where you lie, and say BTC PoW is the best and the crap can barely get 7 transactions per second, Lame Tech.  Tongue
legendary
Activity: 2898
Merit: 1823
I believe the "so many miners" that are going bankrupt, you are saying they're all Bitcoin miners?
Can you show us a list of who those "so many miners" that went bankrupt?


 Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Bitcoin Proof of Waste miners going bankrupt just in the US alone.
https://www.reuters.com/technology/bitcoin-miner-core-scientific-file-chapter-11-bankruptcy-cnbc-2022-12-21/

Quote
Austin, Texas-based Core Scientific attributed its bankruptcy to slumping bitcoin prices, rising energy costs for bitcoin mining and a $7 million unpaid debt from U.S. crypto lender Celsius Network

https://www.forbes.com/sites/colinharper/2022/09/30/bitcoin-minings-first-major-bankruptcy-creates-uncertainty-for-key-partners-opportunity-for-others/?sh=34de5dbb657d

Quote
Compute North, the second largest bitcoin mining hosting provider in the US, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy last week.


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-12-20/bitcoin-miner-greenidge-gree-btc-warns-of-bankruptcy-restructures-debt
Quote
Greenidge Generation Holdings Inc., once one of the largest public Bitcoin miners in the US, warned that it may seek bankruptcy protection


No one using Proof of Stake has had to declared bankruptcy because of lack of VC money to cover their ridiculous waste of energy.  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

What if , you really need to think about?
What if the entire world places a carbon tax on btc?
What if the world governments just outright ban proof of waste?
What if, all of the btc cult members are wrong and btc only falls in price from now on?
What if, you were just an idiot that believe a outdated slow failing tech product was a deity?
When Ethereum become #1 on CMK, What if no one cared that btc died.  Cool


Roll Eyes

That's not so many. Hashng power is also at a level higher than the previous cycle.

https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/bitcoin-hashrate.html#alltime

Plus calling Proof of Stake "better" than Proof of Work merely because it's "wasteful" shows that the person doesn't understand that Proof of Stake is a system for consensus by comittee. Proof of Stake will always be inferior than Proof of Work. It's simply the truth, ask any capable developer who is not a charlatan.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 7340
Farewell, Leo
Tulips fools did not see their collapse coming either.
Great analogy. It's just that plants don't let you send cash across the globe in a censorship resistant, private fashion, for a nickle. Maybe you could come up with something that isn't numerously debunked every once a few years? You know. Just to not look benighted.

Satoshi still has millions of BTC stashed away that no one knows of.
Evidence isn't your strong point, is it?
hero member
Activity: 3052
Merit: 606
Simply stated, he believes that Bitcoin has no value because he is personally unable to see any utility, and everything else he said follows logically from that.

His statements prove his narrow-mindedness, his lack of imagination, his lack of vision, his ignorance, and most importantly his arrogance more than anything else.

If he is a fiat enthusiast, then he must be a bitcoin hater probably. Because the only thing that a single individual will not believe on bitcoin because he has not experienced any good thing about it, that’s why he will take opposite side of bitcoin. But we know the truth, we know how valuable bitcoin is, we know it has a great utility, so we should not fall on Peter Zeihan even if he has been doing great in most of his podcast.
member
Activity: 280
Merit: 30
What if
What if you go outside, take a few breaths, eat a meal, take a walk to your town, visit the parliament, maybe stay there for a while and witness that it isn't consisted only of communists who'd cut the heads of those who'd have dared to spend energy in disapproved activities, and get back home?

When Ethereum become #1 on CMK, What if no one cared that btc died.
It's impossible for some people to not care if Bitcoin ever "dies" (you know, actually), because Bitcoin disappearing requires from the entire world to operate in the most oppressive manner, and I'm sure lots will care about that. Even you might.


What if , Blockstream forgot to pay you for shilling btc and proof of waste.  Wink

Nah, BTC can die tomorrow , and most won't care at all.
Only the fools that believe btc would make them rich if they only hodl. (Good Luck with that nonsense.)
Tulips fools did not see their collapse coming either.
 
Because all it freedom ideals died the day ASICS warehouse make sure the common man would never mine another block.
What you claim to care about in btc has already been dead for years, you're just can't see it thru your cult think.
Decentralization also died when the ASICS came online.
Only 3 mining pool operators hold BTC 51% fate on a daily basis.
Satoshi still has millions of BTC stashed away that no one knows of.
BTC onchain transaction capacity is shit, and no will to fix it.
Worldwide Proof of Waste bans are coming and BTC community too clueless to prepare for it.
full member
Activity: 1092
Merit: 227
Renewable energy isn’t problem here. If they wanted to have this infrastructure in place all over the world then they would have done it already. They would have done it for the fiat money production or may be for coffee machine too! What makes you think that they will do it for the purpose of fiat production? Things are mixing up here. It doesn’t mean anything but more than a dream that someday crypto will run on green energy and all the governments will accept the bitcoin as mode of payment. 
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 7340
Farewell, Leo
What if
What if you go outside, take a few breaths, eat a meal, take a walk to your town, visit the parliament, maybe stay there for a while and witness that it isn't consisted only of communists who'd cut the heads of those who'd have dared to spend energy in disapproved activities, and get back home?

When Ethereum become #1 on CMK, What if no one cared that btc died.
It's impossible for some people to not care if Bitcoin ever "dies" (you know, actually), because Bitcoin disappearing requires from the entire world to operate in the most oppressive manner, and I'm sure lots will care about that. Even you might.
hero member
Activity: 2184
Merit: 531
No one using Proof of Stake has had to declared bankruptcy because of lack of VC money to cover their ridiculous waste of energy.  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Because PoS is making money out of thin air. It doesn't require any money to be poured into it. It produces money with no value, inflationary money, diluting the supply in the process, just like ETH is doing.

I guess all those US mining companies that went bankrupt weren't really that big because bitcoin's hash rate is still 25% higher than it was in the peak of 2021.

Fear mongers want us to panic because the price went down 75%, one scam exchange went bankrupt and some miners in the US had to shut down due to Winter power shortages, but in the meantime the number of wallets containing 1 bitcoin is at all time high and hash rate is higher than it was at the all time high and 2 times what it was in the middle of 2021.
member
Activity: 280
Merit: 30
I believe the "so many miners" that are going bankrupt, you are saying they're all Bitcoin miners?
Can you show us a list of who those "so many miners" that went bankrupt?


 Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Bitcoin Proof of Waste miners going bankrupt just in the US alone.
https://www.reuters.com/technology/bitcoin-miner-core-scientific-file-chapter-11-bankruptcy-cnbc-2022-12-21/

Quote
Austin, Texas-based Core Scientific attributed its bankruptcy to slumping bitcoin prices, rising energy costs for bitcoin mining and a $7 million unpaid debt from U.S. crypto lender Celsius Network

https://www.forbes.com/sites/colinharper/2022/09/30/bitcoin-minings-first-major-bankruptcy-creates-uncertainty-for-key-partners-opportunity-for-others/?sh=34de5dbb657d

Quote
Compute North, the second largest bitcoin mining hosting provider in the US, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy last week.


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-12-20/bitcoin-miner-greenidge-gree-btc-warns-of-bankruptcy-restructures-debt
Quote
Greenidge Generation Holdings Inc., once one of the largest public Bitcoin miners in the US, warned that it may seek bankruptcy protection


No one using Proof of Stake has had to declared bankruptcy because of lack of VC money to cover their ridiculous waste of energy.  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

What if , you really need to think about?
What if the entire world places a carbon tax on btc?
What if the world governments just outright ban proof of waste?
What if, all of the btc cult members are wrong and btc only falls in price from now on?
What if, you were just an idiot that believe a outdated slow failing tech product was a deity?
When Ethereum become #1 on CMK, What if no one cared that btc died.  Cool
hero member
Activity: 2184
Merit: 531
My take on this is that yes, while there will be less capital going forward, fiat is still created at the whim of commercials banks, therefore the idea of a digital cash that cant be debased is a powerful one. On future carbon taxes, which I agree with, the bitcoin network can easily operate on a fully renewable grid - the problem with renewables is they are intermittent and the energy requires storage. Neither of these limitations apply to the Bitcoin network.

What carbon taxes are they going to impose on nuclear power? It doesn't produce any carbon and there are hundreds of nuclear power plants operating worldwide. In fact, China is trying to make more as we speak.

Also, he's talking about "crypto". Bitcoin is not crypto, I hate when people are putting all coins in one basket even though they're often like apples and oranges.

I think that he's completely wrong about cryptocurrencies. Their benefits greatly outnumber the cost of using them, so even with some countries going all renewable there are going to be countries that say fuck that, we're building more nuclear plants or fuck that' we're going to keep using coal as long as we have it. Once we run out, then we'll go green.

I don't see India or China going green. Russia also doesn't care. The biggest countries talking about renewables are actually those that don't produce a lot of CO2. Those that produce the most don't care. As a result you'll have countries like Germany taxing people to build more wind mills and they'll reduce total emissions in the EU from 9% of the global emissions to 8% or something while China alone produces about 30%.
legendary
Activity: 2898
Merit: 1823
Im a fan of Peter Zeihan and in general agree with many of his arguments, such as China collapsing by 2030 due to demographics

While aging demographics pose some problem, there's no way it'll make China collapse.

Peter Zeihan - in a world of carbon taxes, cryptos net worths is negative

He goes on to say "crypto is the poster child for the environment from 1990 - 2022 when we had unlimited volumes of capital. Now with that the money is going away, crypto is going away"

This statement is ridiculous since miner could just mine with renewable/sustainable energy which has less carbon and it only has small impact on cryptocurrency which doesn't use PoW. Report by Bitcoin Mining Council also show majority Bitcoin miner use renewable/sustainable energy.

Looking at China , growing inability to keep the power on and growing inability to feed themselves , collapse is not out of the question,
part of the reason they started the PoW ban.

PoW uses an insane amount of energy , carbon taxes would drive up input costs for miners to increase bankruptcies that are already skyrocketing without carbon taxes.

Now if Franky1 is correct, then BTC price will increase to offset the increase in miners cost, but if that were true, then why are so many miners going bankrupt now.


I believe the "so many miners" that are going bankrupt, you are saying they're all Bitcoin miners, not shitcoin miners? Can you show us a list of who those "so many miners" that went bankrupt?

Quote

IMO, it is because the VC money that kept the PoW miners afloat has dried up for the majority, and the VC money is what was propping up the price and that is going away.

Bitcoin Mining Council puts out alot of propaganda bullshit, BTC miners are using power grids that have some renewables as a % of their total which include coal, nuclear, & natural gas as the bulk %.

The Polar Vortex in the US, just caused 30% of the bitcoin hashrate to go offline for 3 days to avoid grid failure, this caused a decrease in the speed of finding new blocks, the only thing saving BTC, is hardly anyone is using it's blockchain anymore.


But what if Bitcoin keeps chugging along, producing block after block for decades? What if it lives longer than you? How old are you? 50? Average human life span is 70 to 75 years. What if Bitcoin keeps on running 10x longer than your remaining 20 - 25 years in the world?

Quote

The Lack of VC money will hurt all crypto, killing most and only the very strong top 20 Non-PoW coin networks will survive and any tokens running on those networks, the rest are just fubar.


Haha. That would truly indicate that it's going to be a Shitcoin World.
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