Peter Zeihan - in a world of carbon taxes, cryptos net worths is negative - page 3.

zander1983

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Quote from: odolvlobo on December 26, 2022, 02:08:18 PM

Simply stated, he believes that Bitcoin has no value because he is personally unable to see any utility, and everything else he said follows logically from that.

His statements prove his narrow-mindedness, his lack of imagination, his lack of vision, his ignorance, and most importantly his arrogance more than anything else.

He's very very smart but I basically agree. His certainty over every prediction is a red flag.

bitmover

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bitcoindata.science

Quote from: zander1983 on December 26, 2022, 11:25:19 AM

How long do you define long run? Fossil fuels are being taken out of the ground 10 million times faster than they were put in - and their usage increases every year. The long run isnt as long as many seem to imagine IMO.

We are not going to see oil reserves depleted. There is still plenty of oil. This is not what carbon taxes/credit is about

Carbon taxes exists because when we burn oil, some carbon goes to the atmosphere and this is, supposedly, bad. And what those esg people are trying to impose is a new energy matrix based on green sources without fossil fuel.

What I am saying is that it is not possible for now, and Europe will just freeze to death without gas, people will have blackouts all over the world without thermal power stations, etc.

Just look at this chart.

https://ourworldindata.org/

And yes, there are plenty fossil fuels reserves

This is not bitcoins fault. Bitcoin miners will automatically use the cheaper energy available.

odolvlobo

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Simply stated, he believes that Bitcoin has no value because he is personally unable to see any utility, and everything else he said follows logically from that.

His statements prove his narrow-mindedness, his lack of imagination, his lack of vision, his ignorance, and most importantly his arrogance more than anything else.

zander1983

member

Activity: 65

Merit: 24

Quote from: pooya87 on December 26, 2022, 10:35:09 AM

Quote from: zander1983 on December 26, 2022, 07:58:27 AM

He goes on to say "crypto is the poster child for the environment from 1990 - 2022 when we had unlimited volumes of capital. Now with that the money is going away, crypto is going away"

But money is not going away, they are actually printing more of it and right now the "capital" is too scared to jump into bitcoin. Not to mention that certain events like FTX collapse have caused a small crash preventing the rise.
When the inflation+recession growth stops, things could go back to normal and bitcoin would go up again.

Keep in mind that governments have been printing money like maniacs that has and will crash fiat's value which would only contribute to bitcoin price rise.

Quote

On future carbon taxes, which I agree with, the bitcoin network can easily operate on a fully renewable grid

Since such things like "Carbon Tax" are not global, they won't affect bitcoin. They are also not applied in any place with high bitcoin hashrate to matter and even if they did, the hashrate would simply migrate to a region with vast amounts of ultra cheap energy Wink

.

I dont see things going back to normal. Debt is growing at 4 times GDP and has been for a few decades. Bitcoin can grow, but not because things go back to normal, rather due to a collapse/recalibration which looks inevitable IMO.

zander1983

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Quote from: bitmover on December 26, 2022, 10:42:55 AM

Quote from: zander1983 on December 26, 2022, 07:58:27 AM

On future carbon taxes, which I agree with, the bitcoin network can easily operate on a fully renewable grid - the problem with renewables is they are intermittent and the energy requires storage. Neither of these limitations apply to the Bitcoin network.

at 53min 20 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHUoMmKDLUI

Carbon taxes is just a buzz word. Just like ESG.

But nobody can deny the reality for the long run, and fossel fuels aren't going to disappear.

Anyway bitcoin can be mined with green energy sources , when their price becomes sustainable and competitive

How long do you define long run? Fossil fuels are being taken out of the ground 10 million times faster than they were put in - and their usage increases every year. The long run isnt as long as many seem to imagine IMO.

zander1983

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Quote from: jackg on December 26, 2022, 10:39:39 AM

Renewables needing to be stored and geographically diversified is something well known by most governments trying to invest in it. They're going to have to build the infrastructure for that anyway - most already know how to though from when it has been done with oil and coal (such as peak energy usage).

An international carbon tax targetting crypto sounds a lot like scapegoating though. Many other things release a lot more emissions for fewer people (such as private jets and the whole airline industry - the majority of commercial flights are filled more with frequent fliers for things like business than they are holidaygoers and that should be mostly considered unnecessary by now since the pandemic).

Such a tax would also have to provide exemptions for things like electric cars too and a lot of big battery production.

I mean there will be general carbon taxes across the US, Europe, parts of Asia and Australia (anywhere with strong social contracts). These will target anything using fossil fuels, not just bitcoin. But the bitcoin network as a whole can deal with the limits of renewables (transporting and storage) unlike manufacturing for example.

bitmover

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Quote from: zander1983 on December 26, 2022, 07:58:27 AM

On future carbon taxes, which I agree with, the bitcoin network can easily operate on a fully renewable grid - the problem with renewables is they are intermittent and the energy requires storage. Neither of these limitations apply to the Bitcoin network.

at 53min 20 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHUoMmKDLUI

Carbon taxes is just a buzz word. Just like ESG.

But nobody can deny the reality for the long run, and fossel fuels aren't going to disappear.

Anyway bitcoin can be mined with green energy sources , when their price becomes sustainable and competitive

jackg

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https://bit.ly/387FXHi lightning theory

Renewables needing to be stored and geographically diversified is something well known by most governments trying to invest in it. They're going to have to build the infrastructure for that anyway - most already know how to though from when it has been done with oil and coal (such as peak energy usage).

An international carbon tax targetting crypto sounds a lot like scapegoating though. Many other things release a lot more emissions for fewer people (such as private jets and the whole airline industry - the majority of commercial flights are filled more with frequent fliers for things like business than they are holidaygoers and that should be mostly considered unnecessary by now since the pandemic).

Such a tax would also have to provide exemptions for things like electric cars too and a lot of big battery production.

pooya87

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Quote from: zander1983 on December 26, 2022, 07:58:27 AM

He goes on to say "crypto is the poster child for the environment from 1990 - 2022 when we had unlimited volumes of capital. Now with that the money is going away, crypto is going away"

But money is not going away, they are actually printing more of it and right now the "capital" is too scared to jump into bitcoin. Not to mention that certain events like FTX collapse have caused a small crash preventing the rise.
When the inflation+recession growth stops, things could go back to normal and bitcoin would go up again.

Keep in mind that governments have been printing money like maniacs that has and will crash fiat's value which would only contribute to bitcoin price rise.

Quote

On future carbon taxes, which I agree with, the bitcoin network can easily operate on a fully renewable grid

Since such things like "Carbon Tax" are not global, they won't affect bitcoin. They are also not applied in any place with high bitcoin hashrate to matter and even if they did, the hashrate would simply migrate to a region with vast amounts of ultra cheap energy Wink

.

zander1983

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Activity: 65

Merit: 24

Im a fan of Peter Zeihan and in general agree with many of his arguments, such as China collapsing by 2030 due to demographics and Germany falling down the economic ladder fast due to its reliance on ever-more expensive fossil fuels. So that's why Im torn on his views on crypto - hes usually right.

He goes on to say "crypto is the poster child for the environment from 1990 - 2022 when we had unlimited volumes of capital. Now with that the money is going away, crypto is going away"

My take on this is that yes, while there will be less capital going forward, fiat is still created at the whim of commercials banks, therefore the idea of a digital cash that cant be debased is a powerful one. On future carbon taxes, which I agree with, the bitcoin network can easily operate on a fully renewable grid - the problem with renewables is they are intermittent and the energy requires storage. Neither of these limitations apply to the Bitcoin network.

at 53min 20 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHUoMmKDLUI

Topic: Peter Zeihan - in a world of carbon taxes, cryptos net worths is negative - page 3. (Read 349 times)