Topic: Petition to get rid of or fix the default trust system - page 6. (Read 5306 times)

TL;DR, i'll i gathered is.......... ^ has nothing to do with the default trust system and its corruption and use as a video game, and all about your still stuck on wood carving.


I never found anything about a revision to the trust system, although i do not doubt that it was voted off. Its just like any time any other MMORPG tries to make changes to the platform. The kids who know how to game the system are going to throw a tantrum about it.

Also, there is no such thing as a perfect trust system. Trust is something between two people, except in the world of bitcointalk.org where it is social currency and the word "trust" actually means "opinion". I have 0 contributions towards the new forum for bitcointalk.org after a weekend sitting down with a development firm and discussing features and cost i found out that $1 million usd which is what was claimed to be the cost of the new BCT.org forum is drastically over priced and a year or more time frame is longer than it would take to code the facebook, twitter, and amazon platforms together from the ground up using no Open Source CMS.

The new social platform that i am as well as a few others are having developed has a simple feedback system for transactions with built in escrow options. +1 if everything went good, -1 if everything sucked or went bad. Either way, nobody will be ripped off of their goods or bitcoins because escrow is mandated in the marketplace. And feedback is not social currency.


It was unknown to me until the escapade Nubbins started kicked off that there was such a problem on this forum. further i had no idea there were other more restricted micro-communities that had started because of the problems of this forum. My "follows" as you put it which i can only assume was meant to mean followers have chosen a while ago to leave this place and the BCT.org forum. Its no secret there out there or that it happened. You see it all over reddit all the time.

FOR THOSE HERE FOR THE FACTS, THIS THREAD IS ABOUT THE PROBLEMS WITH THE DEFAULT TRUST SYSTEM, THE GAMERS ARE ATTEMPTING TO MAKE IT ANOTHER LONG DRUG OUT THREAD FULL OF USELESS BANTER SO YOU WILL LOSE INTEREST, THIS THREAD HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MY WOOD CARVINGS OR WOOD BUYING, IT WAS JUST AN EXAMPLE I COULD SPEAK TO PERSONALLY. DONT BE AFRAID TO SPEAK UP WITH YOUR OPINIONS OF THE DEFAULT TRUST SYSTEM ON EITHER SIDE OF THE ARGUMENT. WE WILL LET THEM CONTINUE TO ARGUE OVER MOOT POINTS OF THEIR PAST FALSE ACCUSATIONS ON THEIR OWN. LETS KEEP IT ON TOPIC.   

So who are all these loyal follows (aka your shill accounts)? That's a good chunk of money to throw in. But too bad your words carry no weight, as proven with your previous work being nothing but a scam.

Theymos is not going to get rid of the default trust system. He came up with a change in then trust system and it was voted off. The thread is in meta somewhere.

The new forum software is in the final phase. If OP have a new perfect trust system, a lot of people would like to know about it, may be incorporate it on the new forum.

That sounds great! honestly we do need more communities than just bitcointalk.

Just a word of warning, a lot of people seem to underestimate how difficult it is to run bitcointalk.

According to Alexa.com, bitcointalk is currently the 4,603rd largest website in the WORLD. It has become a major target by highly sophisticated hackers, scammers and all types of people. Hackers have hacked companies that bitcointalk does business with (such as the domain registrar) in order to hack bitcointalk.

It is likely your community will also become a target if it becomes large and it is an incredibly difficult thing to deal with. You need to choose every person you work with and every business you work with very very carefully, all it takes is one mistake for something really bad to happen and you'd be surprised at the damage a single person can do. Managing the privacy and security of a site like bitcointalk is very difficult and you will encounter problems you likely wouldn't have even concieved. Bitcointalk is NOT an easy website to run despite what most people think, this is why there have been so many problems in the past.

Why don't you sign a message with an address with at least 1,000 BTC in it?

Additionally iirc you make hundreds of thousands of dollars per year, your lack of ability to do business on here should not negatively effect your ability to earn a living. I highly doubt that very many people are selling wood on a bitcoin forum.

There is very convincing evidence that you are a scammer and the lack of any trust system would make it much easier to scam. The lack of a system that trusts certain people by default would eventually lead to the scammers trusting each other (which would also make it easy to scam).

tl;dr:

Sorry b!z, its a painful read i know, but there was a lot to cover

You should become an builder
because you've built a very nice wall of text.

Thanks Red,

you are on my short list for beta testers once the initial platform is launched, if your interested that is. I will contact you when we have a set date for beta.

Speculation still does not constitute fact, and this thread is not about you and your pathetic band of followers and their attempt at smearing my name. This is about getting rid of the very thing that destroys this forum. You can type in all the giant fonts you want. This forum will either die with only the likes of your misfits left, or the default trust system will be done away with.

Ohh , fantastic. Keep us informed , it is very great to have more forums to talk about "bitcoin". Good luck.

Thanks to all the free marketing from you and your fellow gamers i have made quite a few friends in the community, some who were very helpful in getting me up to speed. Others very capable in the design and development aspects. only took a weekend full of 20 hour days to layout the basic concept for the new platform when we all got together, a whole lot more than just a forum. Amazing the things that can be done when you have a quarter mill to throw at something. Further, it does not change the fact that the default trust system is a failed concept and needs to be done away with.

Let me get this straight..... you went from not knowing what bitcoin was 2 months ago, to leading a revolution on a new bitcoin forum......


Roflmaf...


You speak like you have been here longer then 2 months.....

I'm new here, only a few months into bitcoin. In that few short months I have learned a lot about the bitcoin ecosystem, its strengths and its weaknesses. Bitcoin as a technology is a great thing, it truly has the power to change the future of finance in ways that have not even been publicly discussed yet, but bitcoin as a currency and a community is becoming a plague that is forever stunting the growth of Bitcoin among merchants and companies. Like it or not, the community is a large part of the bitcoin ecosystem.

The easy solution to this problem is simple. Dont use Bitcointalk.org or /r/bitcoin if your  involved in the bitcoin ecosystem. That's all good and well if you have been involved in bitcoin long enough to know what you need to know and you are simply choosing to participate in discussion and know the other places and websites to get the info you might want in the future. But for those who are not technology savvy, merchants who want to explore alternatives to credit cards or standard merchant processing options, well... They are stuck with this forum. Not because this forum is such a great place to find out information any more, not because this forum is the backbone of the bitcoin community, No, its because of search engines. Take a few seconds, open a new browser tab, go to google, bing, yahoo, you name it. Then search for ___________ Bitcoin. You can fill in the blank. Almost 80% of the time over half of the search results on that first page are links to something on bitcointalk.org and that's a huge problem.

I have spent many, many hours diving into this forum, threads from 4 years ago and threads from today. This forum at one time appears to have been one of the greatest resources for Bitcoin knowledge on the web. As of late, it has become nothing more than one giant elementary school playground. The worst part is for those of you whom are visual people and analytical thinkers, If you take the bitcoin price for the past 6 months, and the amount of quality vs. useless posts on every given day on this forum and graph them, you will see that as the quality of content and discussion decrease on this forum, so too does the value of your precious bitcoin. Long time contributors and Bitcoin veterans are leaving, merchants who come to find out information about the community they would be catering to are choosing to overlook bitcoin as a payment option for lack of wanting to deal with the mentality of what is portrayed as the average bitcoin user, and the only people left in the community are either really thick skinned, or here to satisfy their need for attention most likely as a result of a personality disorder called Histrionic personality disorder  or HPD for short. It is a very common disease to find among people in video game communities or large social media sites such as BCT.org.

This history of not just this forum but documented history of the internet over the past few years is exactly why a “default trust” system is not just a bad, but a horrible idea for ANY social gathering site online today. The default trust system as implemented on this forum, turns this from an online knowledge base and place for discussion, into a video game. There is now a prize that can be achieved for trust farming, use of your skills at manipulating a situation via shills, and alternate accounts, and more easily a reward if you transact with or can get escrow set up with a few people on this forum like Canary In The Mine. Because of this default trust system, this once great knowledge base has become the breeding ground for virtual popularity contests and gaming which would be all good and well if it was not for the fact that as far as search engines have indexed, this is still suppose to be the one stop shop for people interested in learning about bitcoin.

I will use my own experience over these past few months as an example. Not to further the debate and thousands of useless posts that have already been spilled into the database which is Bitcointalk.org, but as an outline that I am sure dozens of you can relate to. (although it will anger and probably cause another 20+ pages of useless posts by those who suffer from HPD on this forum)

It was November of last year, I received a gift from a family member. A paper wallet with 10BTC loaded onto it. I was told to spend it on something. It was his attempt at trying to get me to learn about how bitcoin works. Me being me, a woodworker and and artist (contrary to the speculation of the HPD's on this forum) my first and only thought was, “we'll i'll see if bitcoin can buy me some wood for my warehouse”, and so came my account on this forum, and my very first post here [WTB] Exotic woods from around the world with Bitcoin on November 5th 2014. Long story short, within 1 day all 10 bitcoin was gone and I had a lot of new wood on its way to one of my warehouses. Until that day, I obtained wood via brokers and wholesalers. It is expensive and inconvenient as firstly you have to pay the middle man who probably has a few middle men himself, you pretty much had to pay shipping 3 or 4 times as you know they are charging you for the shipping and customs fees from the country of origin, shipping from customs to the mill where the cants are cut, then shipping to their warehouse and finally shipping to me the end user. On that day back in November I realized I could literally save millions of dollars this year re-stocking my warehouses by buying the wood direct using bitcoin. So.... I did. I was buying bitcoin like a mad man, talking with people all over the world, turning that bitcoin into wood via this very forum. People in borderline 3rd world countries were making thousands of dollars which to them might as well be a million just by chopping down that tree in their back yard and having it shipped to me. By the end of December millions of dollars worth of bitcoin had been bought, sent, and spent. Just as bitcoin was intended to be used. Along the way, I had dozens of people contacting me to make them things out of wood related to bitcoin. It was neat and all, but not really why I was here, I did it more so as a way to say thanks and give back to the community that was saving me a fortune by using bitcoin. Because of this, I quickly got a bullseye painted on my back and it was all in part due to the default trust system and the gamers with HPD on the forum. Within 1 week there was over 500 posts which when you look at them are nothing more than the same crowd of guys gaming for virtual popularity, a feud that still carries on today.

Why? The default trust system. It's a video game. Almost by definition its a MMORPG. I cant and dont have the desire to count the number of times battles have been waged over this “virtual points system”. Now, just from my own hired hit (the 1,000+ posts for nothingness) there is yet another debate currently 10 pages long about having the instigator Nubbins removed from the default trust list. Do I agree that he should be removed from that list? Absolutely, Peoples opinions should not be allowed to be weighted as fact as a result of them doing business with someone like CITM in the past. Not just Nubbins, there are dozens and dozens of people on this forum who you can tell after just a few short minutes of browsing through their post history and sent feedback are clearly doing nothing more here than playing the game. Like farmville on Facebook but with trust points. The truth is, removing Nubbins from the default trust list only puts an end to a single gamer here and does not solve the problem. Sure, it would solve my problem, although most of the people he convinced to leave me negative feedback have already removed it and I went from a -618 rating to a -4 he is still one of those 4 that leave me @ -4. But it does not solve the bitcoin problem, it does not fix the problem that this forum has turned into an MMORPG where trust rating and feedback is a game, and the people or gamers who are playing it all carry around a false flag of “scam buster” a job once left to the people who had proven they could handle the responsibility like Tomatocage.  

In summary, the default trust system has turned a once great online knowledge base for all things bitcoin into an MMORPG where feedback is the currency and default trust is the way to game the system. People are entitled to their opinion, I am not against that in any way, but putting a system in place where someones opinion can be weighted because they have done business with a few people on a very short list makes this a game and a perfect place for sufferers of HPD to come to get the gratification they so desperately need like a drug. In case you have missed it, this forum now has more alt's than actual users. The actual users who use to make this place great have left as a result of this online gaming mentality and went to their own, private, invitation only discussion boards, and as a result the information that use to make bitcoin valuable is now being shared and hidden on private sites which hurts bitcoins growth as this forum is all that new comers are exposed to when they are thinking about giving bitcoin a try.

Theymos has already made his millions from this forum, the only thing left for him to do is run away with them like everyone else. He no longer has to care about this forum, it would take less than $1,000 a month to keep this forum online 24/7/365 and he cant even spend the money for a mirror and take 5 minutes to edit the DNS server list to include it in the event that the main server goes down. You really think that he is just going to willingly take the time out of his day to step away from the trans gender sub reddit to address the problem that has arisen here? Not likely, not unless you, the respectable people of this forum petition him to do so. It wont be easy, we all know that what proceeds this original post will be hundreds if not thousands of posts by the HPD's and Gamers here to fight for their virtual popularity points that they have spent thousands of hours trying to game. But it is up to you, the ones who care about bitcoin, the ones who are here for knowledge and the sharing of information to take it upon yourself s to fight for change.



Let the gamers begin  


UPDATE 1: The above mentioned gamers and abusers of the system are making a pitiful attempt at distracting from the point that the trust system is faulted, by displaying the exact reasons why it is faulted. Be sure and thank them for reinforcing my point

UPDATE 2: Canary In The Mine attempts to argue that there is no problem with the default trust system by showing that he too abuses it, demonstrated by leaving me negative feedback for 1,000BTC when i have never done a single trade with him.