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Topic: Please answer 3 technical questions - page 2. (Read 6435 times)

legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1001
January 18, 2015, 11:08:03 AM
#64
I missed this post on a previous page:
I think the answer to question 2 is "No". In the context of transaction time, both cash and plastic are superior to Bitcoin. Though I'm happy to go through the logic of how it could be otherwise.
Eh, did you ever try and actually pay with Bitcoin in real life? Say, dinner, or even just a cup of coffee? You never, EVER have to wait for a confirmation. Which is perfectly safe, because even just an attempt to double spend (with slim success rate at best) is a very, VERY expensive endeavor.

There is no logic in spending $10000 (in terms of mining power) on a feeble attempt to maybe cancel a $100 payment.

It's 100% safe to accept unconfirmed Bitcoin transactions for every day payments, like groceries, restaurant bill, you name it. Sure, if you're selling cars or houses for Bitcoin, you may want to wait for a confirmation or two. Otherwise, NO issue whatsoever.

And transaction time with Bitcoin is 1-2 seconds. Plastic is typically somewhat slower (it has to connect with the bank, and credit card company, etc). And so is cash: having to deal with change, cash registers, counting pennies and dimes and $1 notes, etc. Bitcoin is the absolute superior alternative here.

sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 250
January 16, 2015, 01:30:38 PM
#63
Sure, Bitcoin is still work in progress. Nobody ever claimed it was finished.

But I'd say in the state we are now, Bitcoin is already way, WAY ahead of any alternative. Especially considering the path towards global recognition and mainstream acceptance.

Fair enough.

Bitcoin is currently ahead, sure. But it's brand has been very badly damaged - Mt Gox, drugs, criminality. I don't believe its adoption is any way appealing to government and/or banks. All I can say is I hope this current crash unwinds itself in an orderly manner.

http://www.coingecko.com/ gives a very good overview* of what's currently happening in Crypto-space

*the XRP community is far more active when you replace forum.ripple.com with xrptalk.org
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1001
January 16, 2015, 01:24:38 PM
#62
Sure, Bitcoin is still work in progress. Nobody ever claimed it was finished.

But I'd say in the state we are now, Bitcoin is already way, WAY ahead of any alternative. Especially considering the path towards global recognition and mainstream acceptance.
sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 250
January 16, 2015, 01:20:36 PM
#61
100 billion transactions per day is roughly 1 million transactions per second. Not an unachievable number.

That's what we need to be aiming for.

Strapping a jet to a steam engine is not the solution.
Developments like Factom however...

1 million transactions per second, using the Bitcoin blockchain, there you go.

Hey that's great. And it's good to see people are 1) acknowledging the problem and 2) doing something about it.

I hope they don't get left behind. Because a lot of work has been done and a lot more needs to be done.
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1001
January 16, 2015, 01:03:47 PM
#60
100 billion transactions per day is roughly 1 million transactions per second. Not an unachievable number.

That's what we need to be aiming for.

Strapping a jet to a steam engine is not the solution.
Developments like Factom however...

1 million transactions per second, using the Bitcoin blockchain, there you go.
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1001
January 16, 2015, 01:01:33 PM
#59
So you admit that Bitcoin can't do it?
You're avoiding the question.
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1004
Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political
January 16, 2015, 12:48:09 PM
#58
The idea and theory of cyptocurrency is sound.

It's implementation (via Bitcoin) is not.

Could you share with us the system that achieves decentralized consensus while having the capability of processing 100 billion transactions per day?

So you admit that Bitcoin can't do it?

100 billion transactions per day is roughly 1 million transactions per second. Not an unachievable number.

That's what we need to be aiming for.

Strapping a jet to a steam engine is not the solution.

yawn.  many avenues for scalability but you are only interested in arguing.  have fun.
sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 250
January 16, 2015, 12:16:36 PM
#57
The idea and theory of cyptocurrency is sound.

It's implementation (via Bitcoin) is not.

Could you share with us the system that achieves decentralized consensus while having the capability of processing 100 billion transactions per day?

So you admit that Bitcoin can't do it?

100 billion transactions per day is roughly 1 million transactions per second. Not an unachievable number.

That's what we need to be aiming for.

Strapping a jet to a steam engine is not the solution.
sr. member
Activity: 433
Merit: 263
January 16, 2015, 11:49:09 AM
#56
The idea and theory of cyptocurrency is sound.

It's implementation (via Bitcoin) is not.

Could you share with us the system that achieves decentralized consensus while having the capability of processing 100 billion transactions per day?
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1001
January 16, 2015, 10:05:55 AM
#55
The internet of today isn't built with 28k modems.

The only vision of the future that Bitcoin has is a 36k modem.
You seem to be unaware of many new developments, improvements, and scalability features already being discussed and planned.

Nobody who's serious about Bitcoin thinks we'll be using (the equivalent of) 36k modems.
sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 250
January 16, 2015, 08:53:51 AM
#54
10bn people doing 10 transactions a day? Yeah right...
You still didn't make an argument why this wouldn't be perfectly possible.

The mining performance or energy usage is completely unrelated to number of transactions.
And as for block size: there are tons of options currently being discussed, just a matter of getting consensus of what's the best way to go. There is NO fundamental issue or problem here, Bitcoin is extremely scalable.

You sound like someone in the late 90s saying: this 'internet' thing may seem nice for electronic communication, like some emails and text websites, but downloading complete movies, or even streaming them at multiple megabytes per second in ordinary households? "Yeah right..."

The internet of today isn't built with 28k modems.

The only vision of the future that Bitcoin has is a 36k modem.
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1001
January 16, 2015, 08:44:46 AM
#53
10bn people doing 10 transactions a day? Yeah right...
You still didn't make an argument why this wouldn't be perfectly possible.

The mining performance or energy usage is completely unrelated to number of transactions.
And as for block size: there are tons of options currently being discussed, just a matter of getting consensus of what's the best way to go. There is NO fundamental issue or problem here, Bitcoin is extremely scalable.

You sound like someone in the late 90s saying: this 'internet' thing may seem nice for electronic communication, like some emails and text websites, but downloading complete movies, or even streaming them at multiple megabytes per second in ordinary households? "Yeah right..."

legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1004
Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political
January 15, 2015, 08:40:32 PM
#52
What a load of bollox.

Bitcoin is a tiny, tiny, tiny percentage of the global economy.

If 10bn people were doing 10 transactions a day, at the rate Bitcoin is going, each village on the planet would need it's own power station.
10bn people doing 10 transactions a day can be processed with EXACTLY the same amount of miners as today.

You still don't seem to understand this, so I'll say it again: the processing power required to mine a block is completely unrelated to the number of transactions included in that block. Mining a block with 5 transactions will cost just as much (or as little) as mining one with 10,000 transactions.

Quote
You are a retard. No amount of large letter assertions will change this.
Factually incorrect. What about the block size? How to change that? Bitcoin2.0? Why bother? There are other cryptos that have addressed all these issues.
 

Ignoratio elenchi.

Kazimir already explained the blocksize is
irrelevant to the energy usage.

The fact that the blocksize is limited
is a wholly separate issue; one that
is currently being debated now as
to the best approach to address it.

If you want to use other cryptos,
go for it.  No one is stopping you.

sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 250
January 15, 2015, 08:11:59 PM
#51
It's implementation (via Bitcoin) is not.
Care to elaborate? I'm always interested in good arguments for or against Bitcoin or alternatives. But the things you mentioned in your OP are simply not actual problems.

As for the transaction time vs confirmation time: let me illustrate this by the fact that I pay for coffee, dinner, groceries, and many other products and services with Bitcoin on a daily basis. I'm not talking about webshops or virtual online business, but typical point-of-sale situations. It works. 100% of the time. I pay in literally one second, and obviously I never EVER have to wait for the confirmation time.

I'm not saying Bitcoin is perfect, or the End To All Problems, or even near finished (strictly speaking it's still in development phase). But as a means to pay fast, efficiently, secure, both online AND offline, it already does a damn fine job.

10bn people doing 10 transactions a day? Yeah right...
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1001
January 15, 2015, 07:57:57 PM
#50
It's implementation (via Bitcoin) is not.
Care to elaborate? I'm always interested in good arguments for or against Bitcoin or alternatives. But the things you mentioned in your OP are simply not actual problems.

As for the transaction time vs confirmation time: let me illustrate this by the fact that I pay for coffee, dinner, groceries, and many other products and services with Bitcoin on a daily basis. I'm not talking about webshops or virtual online business, but typical point-of-sale situations. It works. 100% of the time. I pay in literally one second, and obviously I never EVER have to wait for the confirmation time.

I'm not saying Bitcoin is perfect, or the End To All Problems, or even near finished (strictly speaking it's still in development phase). But as a means to pay fast, efficiently, secure, both online AND offline, it already does a damn fine job.
sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 250
January 15, 2015, 07:45:31 PM
#49
Sigh. That's your problem right there. Bitcoin is a religion to you.
Shit, you got me. Yes, I'm not into Bitcoin for technical reasons or its ingenious design, or the new possibilities this technology offers, or because it's all mathematically sound, or for the fact that it replaces trust in people or established powers with trust in open source, transparent cryptography, nahh... I'm all into it because I just have faith.

You win, sir. This also makes all your previous statements true. Enjoy your victory!

You'll find you'd actually agree with me (if you weren't so blinded by your religion).

The idea and theory of cyptocurrency is sound.

It's implementation (via Bitcoin) is not.
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1001
January 15, 2015, 07:28:28 PM
#48
Sigh. That's your problem right there. Bitcoin is a religion to you.
Shit, you got me. Yes, I'm not into Bitcoin for technical reasons or its ingenious design, or the new possibilities this technology offers, or because it's all mathematically sound, or for the fact that it replaces trust in people or established powers with trust in open source, transparent cryptography, nahh... I'm all into it because I just have faith.

You win, sir. This also makes all your previous statements true. Enjoy your victory!
sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 250
January 15, 2015, 06:51:54 PM
#47
Factually incorrect. What about the block size? How to change that?
Plenty of options currently being discussed. Increasing block frequency, increasing max block size over time, pruning block chain at certain intervals, side chains, etc. Look at Gavin Andresen's recent posts on this. Scalability is not an issue.

Best of luck with the trainspotting. There are serious folks out there who have invested huge personal energy, time and money in better alternatives. People who envisage a brighter future for humanity - there's serious work to do.
Great, I'm all pro diversity! I suggest you move to their forums and start buggering them, if you obviously have no faith in Bitcoin whatsoever. Healthy competition is only good, may the best alternative win.


Sigh. That's your problem right there. Bitcoin is a religion to you.
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1001
January 15, 2015, 06:47:32 PM
#46
Factually incorrect. What about the block size? How to change that?
Plenty of options currently being discussed. Increasing block frequency, increasing max block size over time, pruning block chain at certain intervals, side chains, etc. Look at Gavin Andresen's recent posts on this. Scalability is not an issue.

Best of luck with the trainspotting. There are serious folks out there who have invested huge personal energy, time and money in better alternatives. People who envisage a brighter future for humanity - there's serious work to do.
Great, I'm all pro diversity! I suggest you move to their forums and start buggering them, if you obviously have no faith in Bitcoin whatsoever. Healthy competition is only good, may the best alternative win.
sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 250
January 15, 2015, 06:36:57 PM
#45
What a load of bollox.

Bitcoin is a tiny, tiny, tiny percentage of the global economy.

If 10bn people were doing 10 transactions a day, at the rate Bitcoin is going, each village on the planet would need it's own power station.
10bn people doing 10 transactions a day can be processed with EXACTLY the same amount of miners as today.

You still don't seem to understand this, so I'll say it again: the processing power required to mine a block is completely unrelated to the number of transactions included in that block. Mining a block with 5 transactions will cost just as much (or as little) as mining one with 10,000 transactions.

Quote
You are a retard. No amount of large letter assertions will change this.
Factually incorrect. What about the block size? How to change that? Bitcoin2.0? Why bother? There are other cryptos that have addressed all these issues.

An announcement that everyone needs to now install Bitcoin 2.0 would crash the market to 0 overnight.

Ah, the infamous ad hominem, if every other (lack of) argument failed.
I already provided you with several central refutations. You are a Bitcoin zealot and there's no talking to you.


Quote
I wish you all the best with your business.
Bitcoin is not a business for me. More like a fascination and appreciation of how a smart idea and ingenious invention has the potential to make a difference, and take away some power of the establishment. Just like the upcoming of the internet did.
Best of luck with the trainspotting. There are serious folks out there who have invested huge personal energy, time and money in better alternatives. People who envisage a brighter future for humanity - there's serious work to do.

Folks like you want to strap a jet engine onto a steam engine.


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