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Topic: Please stop with mBTC, microBTC, ...! - page 3. (Read 15184 times)

legendary
Activity: 2646
Merit: 1137
All paid signature campaigns should be banned.
August 29, 2014, 10:17:23 AM
I think it doesn't sound like a different coin and it won't confuse a lot of people, if we know the formula

0.000 000 01 BTC = 1 satoshi
0.000 001 00 BTC = 100 satoshi = 1 uBTC
0.001 000 00 BTC = 100k satoshi = 1 mBTC
1.000 000 00 BTC = 100M satoshi = 1 BTC

maybe you can check this website : http://bitblah.com/
hopefully you can satisfied with this formula ...

Is it me or is this much easier to read and digest if laid out like this?

0.00 000 001 BTC = 1 satoshi
0.00 000 100 BTC = 100 satoshi = 1 uBTC
0.00 100 000 BTC = 100k satoshi = 1 mBTC
1.00 000 000 BTC = 100M satoshi = 1 BTC

Never seen that before but it sure looks cool, makes sense, easy to read, you should start the process to make it an international standard!
hero member
Activity: 525
Merit: 500
August 29, 2014, 08:50:21 AM
One thing comes to mind: ENIAC programming.

We've got a long way to go.
sr. member
Activity: 518
Merit: 250
August 29, 2014, 07:43:48 AM
I think it doesn't sound like a different coin and it won't confuse a lot of people, if we know the formula

0.000 000 01 BTC = 1 satoshi
0.000 001 00 BTC = 100 satoshi = 1 uBTC
0.001 000 00 BTC = 100k satoshi = 1 mBTC
1.000 000 00 BTC = 100M satoshi = 1 BTC

maybe you can check this website : http://bitblah.com/
hopefully you can satisfied with this formula ...

Is it me or is this much easier to read and digest if laid out like this?

0.00 000 001 BTC = 1 satoshi
0.00 000 100 BTC = 100 satoshi = 1 uBTC
0.00 100 000 BTC = 100k satoshi = 1 mBTC
1.00 000 000 BTC = 100M satoshi = 1 BTC
legendary
Activity: 1582
Merit: 1064
August 29, 2014, 05:32:14 AM
lets call them BOLLARS, and SENTS

10 satoshi = 1 SENT
100 SENTS = 1 BOLLAR

something lika dat

Naah. Confusing bitcoins with USD, that is the last thing we should do.
That was one of the key arguments used to shut down liberty dollars - People were confusing it with the original.
newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
August 28, 2014, 12:27:19 PM
Personaly all of this gives me an headache.
newbie
Activity: 26
Merit: 0
August 28, 2014, 08:05:16 AM
lets call them BOLLARS, and SENTS

10 satoshi = 1 SENT
100 SENTS = 1 BOLLAR

something lika dat
sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 250
August 28, 2014, 04:50:17 AM
I think it doesn't sound like a different coin and it won't confuse a lot of people, if we know the formula

0.000 000 01 BTC = 1 satoshi
0.000 001 00 BTC = 100 satoshi = 1 uBTC
0.001 000 00 BTC = 100k satoshi = 1 mBTC
1.000 000 00 BTC = 100M satoshi = 1 BTC

maybe you can check this website : http://bitblah.com/
hopefully you can satisfied with this formula ...
hero member
Activity: 525
Merit: 500
August 02, 2014, 10:07:49 PM
c'mon a simple google first next time? http://blog.coinbase.com/post/89405189782/its-bits
hero member
Activity: 988
Merit: 1000
August 02, 2014, 04:37:32 PM
Using "Bits" for bitcoin doesn't make sense!
FTFY

Bits make sense for a lot of other people and causes them no confusion. Bits are far more like a familiar currency system to the average person, and using them means dealing with natural numbers which, eg according to wikipedia, "the natural numbers are those used for counting".

It is more aligned with how people think and could be strategic to higher adoption rates.

Of course you can continue calling them whatever you want, and that's good. Other naming conventions may eventually arise, and that's good too.

No, bits doesn't make sense.  It changes the meaning of a bit and dealing with 1,000,000 bits is lame.   Look at any annual report from a traded company.   All the values are listed in thousands or millions.   People typically don't write out very large numbers.   Besides that it would be a very HUGE climb in BTC price before 1 bit is even worth a penny.   Currently a .000001 transaction won't confirm.   Sure that may be different in 10 or 20 years, but we will have uBTC when we need it.   

The other very real problem is that if BTC were ever worth a huge amount you would then be faced with the number of digits being used in BTC changing.  (Mining awards would get too small for 8 digits)  For example it could go from 8 to 12.   Then where would the "bits" be?   The problem with it is that is doesn't solve any problem.   It only creates more problems down the road.

SI prefixes solve the issues.   They will be used no matter what, so the best bet is to get used to them.

Couldn't agree more.  I'm especially curious to hear what the problem is that people think that "bits" solves.  I can see all sorts of weird problems, but who would this help?
Maybe you should be asking yourself what is it you can't understand about bits that a lot of other people can; coinbase, bitpay, and many others are using bits, for good reasons.


I don't think that coinbase actually uses bits. I don't think that I have actually bought something using bitpay, but IIRC bitpay lists the price of an item in both terms of fiat and BTC so it would be obvious as to the exact amount they would be paying (someone could just use the exchange rate of bitcoin)
sed
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
July 31, 2014, 12:06:17 PM
Using "Bits" for bitcoin doesn't make sense!
FTFY

Bits make sense for a lot of other people and causes them no confusion. Bits are far more like a familiar currency system to the average person, and using them means dealing with natural numbers which, eg according to wikipedia, "the natural numbers are those used for counting".

It is more aligned with how people think and could be strategic to higher adoption rates.

Of course you can continue calling them whatever you want, and that's good. Other naming conventions may eventually arise, and that's good too.

No, bits doesn't make sense.  It changes the meaning of a bit and dealing with 1,000,000 bits is lame.   Look at any annual report from a traded company.   All the values are listed in thousands or millions.   People typically don't write out very large numbers.   Besides that it would be a very HUGE climb in BTC price before 1 bit is even worth a penny.   Currently a .000001 transaction won't confirm.   Sure that may be different in 10 or 20 years, but we will have uBTC when we need it.  

The other very real problem is that if BTC were ever worth a huge amount you would then be faced with the number of digits being used in BTC changing.  (Mining awards would get too small for 8 digits)  For example it could go from 8 to 12.   Then where would the "bits" be?   The problem with it is that is doesn't solve any problem.   It only creates more problems down the road.

SI prefixes solve the issues.   They will be used no matter what, so the best bet is to get used to them.

Couldn't agree more.  I'm especially curious to hear what the problem is that people think that "bits" solves.  I can see all sorts of weird problems, but who would this help?
Maybe you should be asking yourself what is it you can't understand about bits that a lot of other people can; coinbase, bitpay, and many others are using bits, for good reasons.


Um, except that instead I'm asking you what you're talking about when you say "more familiar currency system to the average person".  I'm asking you about your confusion with natural numbers and fractions ("Bits" don't allow subdivision?!  That would intuitively fit with the familar notion of a bit as a 'binary digit' but then you just took away two decimal places from BTC?!).  I'm asking you what problems this solves.  I'm asking you to enumerate some of those putative "good reasons".

Cheers!
hero member
Activity: 854
Merit: 510
July 31, 2014, 03:30:40 AM
Using "Bits" for bitcoin doesn't make sense!
FTFY

Bits make sense for a lot of other people and causes them no confusion. Bits are far more like a familiar currency system to the average person, and using them means dealing with natural numbers which, eg according to wikipedia, "the natural numbers are those used for counting".

It is more aligned with how people think and could be strategic to higher adoption rates.

Of course you can continue calling them whatever you want, and that's good. Other naming conventions may eventually arise, and that's good too.

No, bits doesn't make sense.  It changes the meaning of a bit and dealing with 1,000,000 bits is lame.   Look at any annual report from a traded company.   All the values are listed in thousands or millions.   People typically don't write out very large numbers.   Besides that it would be a very HUGE climb in BTC price before 1 bit is even worth a penny.   Currently a .000001 transaction won't confirm.   Sure that may be different in 10 or 20 years, but we will have uBTC when we need it.  

The other very real problem is that if BTC were ever worth a huge amount you would then be faced with the number of digits being used in BTC changing.  (Mining awards would get too small for 8 digits)  For example it could go from 8 to 12.   Then where would the "bits" be?   The problem with it is that is doesn't solve any problem.   It only creates more problems down the road.

SI prefixes solve the issues.   They will be used no matter what, so the best bet is to get used to them.

Couldn't agree more.  I'm especially curious to hear what the problem is that people think that "bits" solves.  I can see all sorts of weird problems, but who would this help?
Maybe you should be asking yourself what is it you can't understand about bits that a lot of other people can; coinbase, bitpay, and many others are using bits, for good reasons.



Not worried, it won't last.   The unit has too many built in problems.   Also I use coinbase a lot and have never seen bits.   Probably an option or something country based, anyway it would be totally useless to me.   I mean would you want your coffee drink priced as: .0067 BTC or 6700 Bits, or 6.7 mBTS?   Bits is clearly the oddball.   Besides what happens if price of BTC really climbs?   Then you will have fractional Bits.   Totally lame.  

I won't reply now, but I have to start an overseas pain in the butt trip to the states.  So I guess you get the last word this time!  Smiley
hero member
Activity: 525
Merit: 500
July 31, 2014, 01:05:27 AM
Using "Bits" for bitcoin doesn't make sense!
FTFY

Bits make sense for a lot of other people and causes them no confusion. Bits are far more like a familiar currency system to the average person, and using them means dealing with natural numbers which, eg according to wikipedia, "the natural numbers are those used for counting".

It is more aligned with how people think and could be strategic to higher adoption rates.

Of course you can continue calling them whatever you want, and that's good. Other naming conventions may eventually arise, and that's good too.

No, bits doesn't make sense.  It changes the meaning of a bit and dealing with 1,000,000 bits is lame.   Look at any annual report from a traded company.   All the values are listed in thousands or millions.   People typically don't write out very large numbers.   Besides that it would be a very HUGE climb in BTC price before 1 bit is even worth a penny.   Currently a .000001 transaction won't confirm.   Sure that may be different in 10 or 20 years, but we will have uBTC when we need it.  

The other very real problem is that if BTC were ever worth a huge amount you would then be faced with the number of digits being used in BTC changing.  (Mining awards would get too small for 8 digits)  For example it could go from 8 to 12.   Then where would the "bits" be?   The problem with it is that is doesn't solve any problem.   It only creates more problems down the road.

SI prefixes solve the issues.   They will be used no matter what, so the best bet is to get used to them.

Couldn't agree more.  I'm especially curious to hear what the problem is that people think that "bits" solves.  I can see all sorts of weird problems, but who would this help?
Maybe you should be asking yourself what is it you can't understand about bits that a lot of other people can; coinbase, bitpay, and many others are using bits, for good reasons.

sed
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
July 31, 2014, 12:17:53 AM
Using "Bits" for bitcoin doesn't make sense!
FTFY

Bits make sense for a lot of other people and causes them no confusion. Bits are far more like a familiar currency system to the average person, and using them means dealing with natural numbers which, eg according to wikipedia, "the natural numbers are those used for counting".

It is more aligned with how people think and could be strategic to higher adoption rates.

Of course you can continue calling them whatever you want, and that's good. Other naming conventions may eventually arise, and that's good too.

No, bits doesn't make sense.  It changes the meaning of a bit and dealing with 1,000,000 bits is lame.   Look at any annual report from a traded company.   All the values are listed in thousands or millions.   People typically don't write out very large numbers.   Besides that it would be a very HUGE climb in BTC price before 1 bit is even worth a penny.   Currently a .000001 transaction won't confirm.   Sure that may be different in 10 or 20 years, but we will have uBTC when we need it.  

The other very real problem is that if BTC were ever worth a huge amount you would then be faced with the number of digits being used in BTC changing.  (Mining awards would get too small for 8 digits)  For example it could go from 8 to 12.   Then where would the "bits" be?   The problem with it is that is doesn't solve any problem.   It only creates more problems down the road.

SI prefixes solve the issues.   They will be used no matter what, so the best bet is to get used to them.

Couldn't agree more.  I'm especially curious to hear what the problem is that people think that "bits" solves.  I can see all sorts of weird problems, but who would this help?
hero member
Activity: 854
Merit: 510
July 30, 2014, 11:55:17 PM
Using "Bits" for bitcoin doesn't make sense!
FTFY

Bits make sense for a lot of other people and causes them no confusion. Bits are far more like a familiar currency system to the average person, and using them means dealing with natural numbers which, eg according to wikipedia, "the natural numbers are those used for counting".

It is more aligned with how people think and could be strategic to higher adoption rates.

Of course you can continue calling them whatever you want, and that's good. Other naming conventions may eventually arise, and that's good too.

No, bits doesn't make sense.  It changes the meaning of a bit and dealing with 1,000,000 bits is lame.   Look at any annual report from a traded company.   All the values are listed in thousands or millions.   People typically don't write out very large numbers.   Besides that it would be a very HUGE climb in BTC price before 1 bit is even worth a penny.   Currently a .000001 transaction won't confirm.   Sure that may be different in 10 or 20 years, but we will have uBTC when we need it.  

The other very real problem is that if BTC were ever worth a huge amount you would then be faced with the number of digits being used in BTC changing.  (Mining awards would get too small for 8 digits)  For example it could go from 8 to 12.   Then where would the "bits" be?   The problem with it is that is doesn't solve any problem.   It only creates more problems down the road.

SI prefixes solve the issues.   They will be used no matter what, so the best bet is to get used to them.
sed
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
July 30, 2014, 11:53:50 PM
Using "Bits" for bitcoin doesn't make sense to me
FTFY

Bits make sense for a lot of other people and causes them no confusion. Bits are far more like a familiar currency system to the average person, and using them means dealing with natural numbers which, eg according to wikipedia, "the natural numbers are those used for counting".

It is more aligned with how people think and could be strategic to higher adoption rates.

Of course you can continue calling them whatever you want, and that's good. Other naming conventions may eventually arise, and that's good too.

What do you mean when you say that "Bits are far more like a familiar currency system to the average person"?  Who is this average person who thinks of currency system upon hearing "Bits"?  Crucially, natural numbers refers to non-negative integers.  Does this mean that you can't talk about a negative number of Bits?  Most "average" people as I conceive of them don't mind using negative numbers.  Above, someone quoted to me a price in "Bits" that included a decimal fraction...is there some miscommunication the "Bits" supporters. Presumably Satoshi is the only undividable unit at this present time.
hero member
Activity: 525
Merit: 500
July 30, 2014, 11:30:36 PM
Using "Bits" for bitcoin doesn't make sense to me.  
FTFY

Bits make sense for a lot of other people and causes them no confusion. Bits are far more like a familiar currency system to the average person, and using them means dealing with natural numbers which, eg according to wikipedia, "the natural numbers are those used for counting".

[edit Maybe I should have said integers, however the meaning should be clear to all but the most anally retentive, or retarded]
 
It is more aligned with how people think and could be strategic to higher adoption rates.

Of course you can continue calling them whatever you want, and that's good. Other naming conventions may eventually arise, and that's good too.
hero member
Activity: 854
Merit: 510
July 30, 2014, 10:34:16 PM
A byte is 2 to the power of 3 as computers process everything in binary which is a base of 2 I think that is mostly why.  Ascii was 128 characters or 2 to the power of 7 for printer codes and now they use 1 byte for each character

  Someone should look at the history of currency and how bitcoin relates. Deci is ten but originally currency was not with a base of ten.  The dollar was originally a silver piece and could be cut up into pieces of eight?

I'm not sure about the dollar, but Spanish coins were used before that and they cut into eights.   For a very long time the stock market used 1/8th of a dollar for the tick size.  (It is a penny now.)   There was a long term use of "bits" even when it was no longer really being used.   However now a bit is the simplest storage element, 0 or 1.   That is an important meaning and it is used in many places.   Using "Bits" for bitcoin doesn't make sense. 
sed
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
July 30, 2014, 06:11:13 PM
Yes, there are several threads.

As for those darn tickets they are 512 bytes and cost 4,096.00 bits.

Randomly generated bits?  Good thing its X.00, I wouldn't know how to split a bit into 100ths.  Smiley

I know what you mean by 512 bytes though, that has to be the weight of the thing, right?

I'm just teasing, I can see that by 4,096.00 bits you obviously mean 4.096mBTC Smiley
legendary
Activity: 2646
Merit: 1137
All paid signature campaigns should be banned.
July 30, 2014, 06:02:10 PM
Yes, there are several threads.

As for those darn tickets they are 512 bytes and cost 4,096.00 bits.
legendary
Activity: 1456
Merit: 1081
I may write code in exchange for bitcoins.
July 30, 2014, 05:54:18 PM
However, given that bitcoin transactions can indeed be measured in bits (although kilobytes would be more typical way to express it), there is a real confusion.

Really? Lets put aside the argument if you do or do not like "bits" as a unit.  You honestly would be confused.  You can't determine the meaning of the word from the context even though you do it for thousands of other words every single day.

My internet connection is blazing fast, it is 50 Megabits per second. Would you honestly believe he was saying his internet connection generating 50 million bits of currency a second?  Really?

The tickets are 5,000 bits.  Would you honestly be trying to figure out how they compressed the concert tickets to be less than 1KB?  Really?

Ok, I think you're trying to get me to address whether or not I would be confused.  And I think you're right to put it into context.  If you say "my internet connection is fast, 50megabits per second" then there's very little chance for confusion because you primed me with the adjective "fast".  However, in your second example, you use the semantically bleached "are" which is interpretable in many different ways, so I like this example.  Now imagine these are etickets, you say "tickets are 4096 bits".  Are you talking about the price of the tickets in bitcoins or are you talking about the size of the tickets as a network packet?  Presumably, in whatever context our conversation occurs, we can disambiguate this.  However, I think it's clumsy to use a unit of size on a network to indicate an arbitrarily placed decimal amount of a currency that's basically transmitted in packets over a network.  I really do think this is a lot like saying, I have a new name for price of 3 bottles of soda water, we're going to call it a "litre".  So, yes you can now buy 6 litres for 1 litre.  Sad

So, looking at the OP, we are really being asked to stop using metric prefixes on BTC rather than simply sticking to BTC and satoshi.  This idea of "bits" must have another thread elsewhere I guess.  I agree with sed that the "bits" thing seems weird.

Personally, I have no problem with the metrix prefixes and I have my own bias because I played a lot of dragons tale casino.  In that game, mBTC is commonly used and below mBTC we usually see kSAT.  So, we go from millibtc to kilosatoshis, then, obviously, just plain satoshis.   My own opinion is that if you were going to pick out a special decimal place to name, it should probably be somewhere around 0.00001, something between mBTC and uBTC because that's on the order of magnitude to the value of a USD penny.  Well that's my opinion anyway.  Naming it something other than kSAT seems unmotivated to me, and naming it something like "bits" or "meters" seems outlandish.
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