Another Romanian with invites:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1427491
Wouldn't be surprised about an IP match with torac. Then again, he's probably on tor.
Topic: POLL: Sales of hacked, compromised, and/or unauthorized transfers of accounts. (Read 7144 times)
January 04, 2013, 09:50:45 AM
January 04, 2013, 06:38:23 AM
I would feel terrible if I bought someones hacked account...
Let alone hack one, and let alone use one.
Let alone hack one, and let alone use one.
January 04, 2013, 02:28:11 AM
Hmmm... Actually - what's the forum policy on selling forum accounts? Can I sell my own account to Torac? He seems pretty desperate for a sock and has hundreds of thousands of potential future dollars to dole out.
That's generally OK, but torac is banned. Any accounts he uses will be banned.
January 04, 2013, 02:13:17 AM
Theymos does this forum's policy of "free speech" allow publicly posting personally identifiable information of suspected hackers selling hacked/compromised accounts?
Yes.
Oh, this is gonna get messy. Like front row at a Gallagher show.
January 04, 2013, 02:10:03 AM
What state is bitcointalk.org incorporated under to get non-profit status?
The forum isn't registered with any government. You seem to assume that no organization can operate on a non-profit basis without permission from a government, which is a strange assumption to make.
Hmmm... Actually - what's the forum policy on selling forum accounts? Can I sell my own account to Torac? He seems pretty desperate for a sock and has hundreds of thousands of potential future dollars to dole out.
January 04, 2013, 02:06:08 AM
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/nzbto-account-nzbsorg-account-gingadaddy-invite-for-sell-134004
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/nzbsorg-account-for-sale-pls-read-carrefully-topic-updated-regularly-134287
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/nzbsorg-accounts-for-sale-available-134356
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/nzbsorg-account-for-sale-pls-read-carrefully-topic-updated-regularly-134287
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/nzbsorg-accounts-for-sale-available-134356
supernatural is selling his own invites/accounts as far as I can tell. We're not going to enforce the terms of service of other sites. Terms of service are not recognized as legally binding in all countries, and it would be too difficult to understand and enforce all such terms.
Theymos does this forum's policy of "free speech" allow publicly posting personally identifiable information of suspected hackers selling hacked/compromised accounts?
Yes.
January 04, 2013, 01:42:19 AM
What state is bitcointalk.org incorporated under to get non-profit status?
The forum isn't registered with any government. You seem to assume that no organization can operate on a non-profit basis without permission from a government, which is a strange assumption to make.
January 04, 2013, 12:53:51 AM
What state is bitcointalk.org incorporated under to get non-profit status?
January 03, 2013, 03:12:50 PM
No, because the purchaser of the account can have it taken away with zero recourse. Might as well donate their bitcoins to a black hole.
January 03, 2013, 02:43:13 PM
Note that all threads pertaining to the selling of such accounts and invites have been locked due to the dubious legality of such actions. Please report if you find any similar threads.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/wts-cheap-trusted-torrent-private-trackers-invites-account-huge-list-86299
January 03, 2013, 02:35:18 PM
Note that all threads pertaining to the selling of such accounts and invites have been locked due to the dubious legality of such actions. Please report if you find any similar threads.
January 03, 2013, 01:54:41 PM
I consider said activities dispicable and do wish that we as a community can persuade the sellers to conduct there buisness elsewhere.
January 03, 2013, 01:51:59 PM
Theymos, is there really a question and do we need a "forum policy" to know right from wrong? Stealing is stealing. Why would you want this forum or Bitcoin associated with that?
++1
Bitcoin already has too many nefarious connections.
I don't care what you use your bitcoins for and it is non of my business but I for one would strongly prefer the forum policy only allow discussion of issues that do not promote activites that generally and broadly accepted to be illegal or illicit.
January 03, 2013, 01:40:48 PM
Theymos, is there really a question and do we need a "forum policy" to know right from wrong? Stealing is stealing. Why would you want this forum or Bitcoin associated with that?
++1
Bitcoin already has too many nefarious connections.
I don't care what you use your bitcoins for and it is non of my business but I for one would strongly prefer the forum policy only allow discussion of issues that do not promote activites that generally and broadly accepted to be illegal or illicit.
January 03, 2013, 01:35:55 PM
I haven't seen any offer you are describing here on bitcointalk. Can you post link to some examples?
There are good reasons to think that torac is selling hacked accounts.
Selling hacked accounts is not banned by any current forum policy. Selling the accounts is not illegal as far as I know (maybe the act of hacking the accounts is illegal). I'm always reluctant to go against the forum's policy of free speech, and in this case I'm not even sure that the trades are immoral. On one hand:
- The victims probably never notice.
- If the victims do notice, they can probably get their accounts back without too much hassle.
- There is no violence or deception involved.
- torac is only selling information. Some part of me thinks that selling information can never be wrong.
On the other hand, there are victims...
Also, I can never know with absolute certainty whether someone is selling hacked accounts or just reselling accounts that have been given to them willingly. (Reselling willingly-given accounts is OK. The forum clearly has no obligation to enforce the terms of service for other sites. Otherwise common trades such as Steam trades or PayPal transfers would be disallowed.) This makes a ban on trading hacked accounts potentially messy to enforce. Should I ban trades that are only probably trades of hacked accounts?
torac is donating a portion of proceeds from each sale back to the site, which creates a conflict of interest in acting against torac
The forum is non-profit. I don't get anything whether he donates or not.
What boggles my mind is you would think after the cosbycoin hack of bitcointalk.org in 2011 that Theymos would not be receptive to this type of activity taking place on his own forum. I don't think Theymos would want someone selling his login credentials on another forum.
I wouldn't like it, but I'm not sure that selling the credentials would be immoral.
Theymos, is there really a question and do we need a "forum policy" to know right from wrong? Stealing is stealing. Why would you want this forum or Bitcoin associated with that?
January 03, 2013, 11:51:22 AM
Quote
Theymos, I understand you're for free speech. But in this matter, you're stretching it..
If anyone gets access to an account they don't own, that's something that they should not do, and then selling this information to others
If anyone gets access to an account they don't own, that's something that they should not do, and then selling this information to others
Are you against WikiLeaks as well?
January 03, 2013, 08:21:49 AM
Anyways. This guy is selling the exact same stuff as Mr. Choleric Hacker.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/torrentleech-6-euro-invite-134194
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/cheap-tracker-invites-fuxorscenehdptpttwafflesbitmebitmetvtlsccgft-134044
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/torrentleech-6-euro-invite-134194
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/want-to-sell-e-book-and-e-learning-trackers-134223
In the interest of equality he should be shut down too.
EDIT:
Next one: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/nzbsorg-account-for-sale-pls-read-carrefully-topic-updated-regularly-134287
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/renderers-minimarket-torrent-tracker-invites-updated-regularly-134244
Bearing the "torac seal of approval"
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/torrentleech-6-euro-invite-134194
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/cheap-tracker-invites-fuxorscenehdptpttwafflesbitmebitmetvtlsccgft-134044
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/torrentleech-6-euro-invite-134194
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/want-to-sell-e-book-and-e-learning-trackers-134223
In the interest of equality he should be shut down too.
EDIT:
Next one: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/nzbsorg-account-for-sale-pls-read-carrefully-topic-updated-regularly-134287
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/renderers-minimarket-torrent-tracker-invites-updated-regularly-134244
Bearing the "torac seal of approval"
January 03, 2013, 06:53:15 AM
Quote
Theymos, I understand you're for free speech. But in this matter, you're stretching it..
If anyone gets access to an account they don't own, that's something that they should not do, and then selling this information to others
If anyone gets access to an account they don't own, that's something that they should not do, and then selling this information to others
Are you against WikiLeaks as well?
Another troll taking it out of context and derailing from the orginal discussion.
January 03, 2013, 06:40:38 AM
Quote
Theymos, I understand you're for free speech. But in this matter, you're stretching it..
If anyone gets access to an account they don't own, that's something that they should not do, and then selling this information to others
If anyone gets access to an account they don't own, that's something that they should not do, and then selling this information to others
Are you against WikiLeaks as well?
January 03, 2013, 06:37:43 AM
I haven't seen any offer you are describing here on bitcointalk. Can you post link to some examples?
There are good reasons to think that torac is selling hacked accounts.
Selling hacked accounts is not banned by any current forum policy. Selling the accounts is not illegal as far as I know (maybe the act of hacking the accounts is illegal). I'm always reluctant to go against the forum's policy of free speech, and in this case I'm not even sure that the trades are immoral. On one hand:
- The victims probably never notice.
- If the victims do notice, they can probably get their accounts back without too much hassle.
- There is no violence or deception involved.
- torac is only selling information. Some part of me thinks that selling information can never be wrong.
On the other hand, there are victims...
Also, I can never know with absolute certainty whether someone is selling hacked accounts or just reselling accounts that have been given to them willingly. (Reselling willingly-given accounts is OK. The forum clearly has no obligation to enforce the terms of service for other sites. Otherwise common trades such as Steam trades or PayPal transfers would be disallowed.) This makes a ban on trading hacked accounts potentially messy to enforce. Should I ban trades that are only probably trades of hacked accounts?
torac is donating a portion of proceeds from each sale back to the site, which creates a conflict of interest in acting against torac
The forum is non-profit. I don't get anything whether he donates or not.
What boggles my mind is you would think after the cosbycoin hack of bitcointalk.org in 2011 that Theymos would not be receptive to this type of activity taking place on his own forum. I don't think Theymos would want someone selling his login credentials on another forum.
I wouldn't like it, but I'm not sure that selling the credentials would be immoral.
Some day, a company with enough resources may have law enforcement involved, and we know how that goes.
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/04/data-centers-ra/
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