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Topic: [Poll] Should the minimum wage be raised? - page 5. (Read 4836 times)

niothor
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Re: [Poll] Should the minimum wage be raised?
May 16, 2014, 05:49:53 AM
#31
Quote from: hilariousandco on May 16, 2014, 05:23:36 AM
Quote from: niothor on May 16, 2014, 05:21:35 AM
Why should there be a minimum wage in the first place?

To stop employers exploiting their employees and paying them peanuts.

The no minimum wage plan worked in Germany for years with less problems that in country where the minimum wage just drove people to work without papers and led to lots of abuse.
Lethn
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Re: [Poll] Should the minimum wage be raised?
May 16, 2014, 05:49:14 AM
#30
Quote from: Elwar on May 16, 2014, 05:02:00 AM
Quote from: PhydeauxLeChien on May 16, 2014, 04:43:52 AM
$100/hour? Obviously not

Why not? What would be the worst that could happen?

Hyperinflation and a Great Depression following the collapse of the country and its currency since they'd have to devalue the currency in order to pay for it, while minimum wages certainly alone won't be responsible ( we have minimum wage in the UK ) many measures like it are the cause because people simply refuse to pay directly for it, especially the very people who champion things like the minimum wage.
Elwar
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Re: [Poll] Should the minimum wage be raised?
May 16, 2014, 05:45:37 AM
#29
Quote from: Ekaros on May 16, 2014, 05:41:21 AM
Free market doesn't work for labour market as some participant have needs they must fullfill.

Free market works best in the labor force. Being free is the best way forward for exchanging your service for fair compensation. It is when outside forces pervert the relationship between employee and employer that the fairness is destroyed.

Elwar
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Re: [Poll] Should the minimum wage be raised?
May 16, 2014, 05:42:59 AM
#28
Quote from: hilariousandco on May 16, 2014, 05:33:57 AM
Shall we abolish punishment for rape and murder as well and let people settle their differences the good old fashion way?

A cheap security service to protect yourself from such crimes would be more efficient for people initiating force against you.

Quote from: hilariousandco on May 16, 2014, 05:33:57 AM
And for those that don't have a choice? What's the option? I guess they'll have the right to choose to be homeless and starve to death, right?

And that's a very snobby and elitist/condescending thing to say.

If you decide not to choose you still have made a choice. This is a huge world. You can work anywhere, there are jobs all over. Who are these people with no choice?

Go where the jobs are. Go where you can live on whatever wage is paid. I left the US several years ago, they are so business unfriendly. I would never start a business there.

Elitists look at individuals and try to decide how they should live and condescendingly believe they know what is best for other people. Let people live their own lives, stop being so elitist and condescending.
Ekaros
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Re: [Poll] Should the minimum wage be raised?
May 16, 2014, 05:41:21 AM
#27
Free market doesn't work for labour market as some participant have needs they must fullfill.
hilariousandco
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Re: [Poll] Should the minimum wage be raised?
May 16, 2014, 05:33:57 AM
#26
Quote from: Elwar on May 16, 2014, 05:25:00 AM
Quote from: hilariousandco on May 16, 2014, 05:18:39 AM
Quote from: Elwar on May 16, 2014, 05:13:39 AM
Quote from: hilariousandco on May 16, 2014, 05:07:33 AM
Obviously there should be a standard minimum living wage set by law

I keep seeing this word "obviously" as if the government being involved in every part of our lives is so natural. That is quite scary (the ease of giving up freedom).

What exactly do you suggest as an alternative? No government and allowing people to pay their employees whatever they want?

Yes! Allow people to be free, freely exchanging services for compensation...a mutually agreed upon salary without the threat of a gun.

Quote
I don't see how were giving up freedom...

And that is the main problem in the US...though most people do not understand what freedom really is. Government telling you what to do is not it.

Shall we abolish punishment for rape and murder as well and let people settle their differences the good old fashion way? I'm sure living in a libertarian utopia is great in theory, but I've yet so see a workable solution from anyone. All I ever hear is 'government is bad' and 'without the threat of guns' etc.

Quote from: Elwar on May 16, 2014, 05:30:19 AM
Quote from: hilariousandco on May 16, 2014, 05:23:36 AM
Quote from: niothor on May 16, 2014, 05:21:35 AM
Why should there be a minimum wage in the first place?

To stop employers exploiting their employees and paying them peanuts.

Why work for those employers? Vote with your feet.

If you do not have that option, you obviously do not have skills that are of any value.

And for those that don't have a choice? What's the option? I guess they'll have the right to choose to be homeless and starve to death, right?

And that's a very snobby and elitist/condescending thing to say.
Elwar
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Re: [Poll] Should the minimum wage be raised?
May 16, 2014, 05:30:19 AM
#25
Quote from: hilariousandco on May 16, 2014, 05:23:36 AM
Quote from: niothor on May 16, 2014, 05:21:35 AM
Why should there be a minimum wage in the first place?

To stop employers exploiting their employees and paying them peanuts.

Why work for those employers? Vote with your feet.

If you do not have that option, you obviously do not have skills that are of any value.
Elwar
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Activity: 3598
Merit: 2386
Viva Ut Vivas
Re: [Poll] Should the minimum wage be raised?
May 16, 2014, 05:29:26 AM
#24
Quote from: Ekaros on May 16, 2014, 05:19:09 AM
Yes, just consider what would happen to prices if wages of people working in labor-intensive and service fields would increase x10.

People losing their jobs, automation and robots for as many jobs as possible, even more jobs going overseas.

Welcome to McDonalds, may I take your order:
Elwar
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Re: [Poll] Should the minimum wage be raised?
May 16, 2014, 05:25:00 AM
#23
Quote from: hilariousandco on May 16, 2014, 05:18:39 AM
Quote from: Elwar on May 16, 2014, 05:13:39 AM
Quote from: hilariousandco on May 16, 2014, 05:07:33 AM
Obviously there should be a standard minimum living wage set by law

I keep seeing this word "obviously" as if the government being involved in every part of our lives is so natural. That is quite scary (the ease of giving up freedom).

What exactly do you suggest as an alternative? No government and allowing people to pay their employees whatever they want?

Yes! Allow people to be free, freely exchanging services for compensation...a mutually agreed upon salary without the threat of a gun.

Quote
I don't see how were giving up freedom...

And that is the main problem in the US...though most people do not understand what freedom really is. Government telling you what to do is not it.
hilariousandco
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Re: [Poll] Should the minimum wage be raised?
May 16, 2014, 05:23:36 AM
#22
Quote from: niothor on May 16, 2014, 05:21:35 AM
Why should there be a minimum wage in the first place?

To stop employers exploiting their employees and paying them peanuts.
zx81
newbie
Activity: 50
Merit: 0
Re: [Poll] Should the minimum wage be raised?
May 16, 2014, 05:22:55 AM
#21
Quote from: Elwar on May 16, 2014, 05:02:00 AM
Quote from: PhydeauxLeChien on May 16, 2014, 04:43:52 AM
$100/hour? Obviously not

Why not? What would be the worst that could happen?

hyper-inflation would happen
niothor
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Re: [Poll] Should the minimum wage be raised?
May 16, 2014, 05:21:35 AM
#20
Why should there be a minimum wage in the first place?
Ekaros
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Activity: 728
Merit: 500
Re: [Poll] Should the minimum wage be raised?
May 16, 2014, 05:21:16 AM
#19
Quote from: Elwar on May 16, 2014, 05:16:45 AM
Quote from: Ekaros on May 16, 2014, 05:11:07 AM
I think we should try to find a system where...

I think the system you are looking for is "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs..."

No, just that as western societies we can afford to cover the basic needs of everyone who lives here and we already do just that. The current way is just inefficient and bureaucratic. I want to keep doing the same and just find a way where there is always incentive to work or produce something.
Ekaros
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Merit: 500
Re: [Poll] Should the minimum wage be raised?
May 16, 2014, 05:19:09 AM
#18
Quote from: Elwar on May 16, 2014, 05:15:02 AM
Quote from: Ekaros on May 16, 2014, 05:13:19 AM
Economy would grind to halt for a while. So people might starve to death or not considering state of population Grin Effects of such policy isn't really simple to find out. But it would probably lead to hyperinflation for moment at least.

So, only a mild form of this is a good idea?

Yes, just consider what would happen to prices if wages of people working in labor-intensive and service fields would increase x10. That is food industry, retail industry and such. In long term it would balance out, but for moment there would be massive problems like layoffs and people just not being able to afford anything and as such to pay anyone that new wage.
hilariousandco
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Re: [Poll] Should the minimum wage be raised?
May 16, 2014, 05:18:39 AM
#17
Quote from: Elwar on May 16, 2014, 05:13:39 AM
Quote from: hilariousandco on May 16, 2014, 05:07:33 AM
Obviously there should be a standard minimum living wage set by law

I keep seeing this word "obviously" as if the government being involved in every part of our lives is so natural. That is quite scary (the ease of giving up freedom).

What exactly do you suggest as an alternative? No government and allowing people to pay their employees whatever they want? I don't see how we're giving up freedom by expecting certain rights and standards.
Elwar
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Re: [Poll] Should the minimum wage be raised?
May 16, 2014, 05:16:45 AM
#16
Quote from: Ekaros on May 16, 2014, 05:11:07 AM
I think we should try to find a system where...

I think the system you are looking for is "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs..."
Elwar
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Activity: 3598
Merit: 2386
Viva Ut Vivas
Re: [Poll] Should the minimum wage be raised?
May 16, 2014, 05:15:02 AM
#15
Quote from: Ekaros on May 16, 2014, 05:13:19 AM
Economy would grind to halt for a while. So people might starve to death or not considering state of population Grin Effects of such policy isn't really simple to find out. But it would probably lead to hyperinflation for moment at least.

So, only a mild form of this is a good idea?
Elwar
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Viva Ut Vivas
Re: [Poll] Should the minimum wage be raised?
May 16, 2014, 05:13:39 AM
#14
Quote from: hilariousandco on May 16, 2014, 05:07:33 AM
Obviously there should be a standard minimum living wage set by law

I keep seeing this word "obviously" as if the government being involved in every part of our lives is so natural. That is quite scary (the ease of giving up freedom).
Ekaros
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
Re: [Poll] Should the minimum wage be raised?
May 16, 2014, 05:13:19 AM
#13
Quote from: Elwar on May 16, 2014, 05:09:54 AM
Quote from: Ekaros on May 16, 2014, 05:03:28 AM
Quote from: Elwar on May 16, 2014, 05:02:00 AM
Quote from: PhydeauxLeChien on May 16, 2014, 04:43:52 AM
$100/hour? Obviously not

Why not? What would be the worst that could happen?

Death of couple americans... Not really that major thing, might be some global economic issues too. But net positive for the world in long run.

How would people die from the minimum wage being raised?

Economy would grind to halt for a while. So people might starve to death or not considering state of population Grin Effects of such policy isn't really simple to find out. But it would probably lead to hyperinflation for moment at least.
Ekaros
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Activity: 728
Merit: 500
Re: [Poll] Should the minimum wage be raised?
May 16, 2014, 05:11:07 AM
#12
Quote from: hilariousandco on May 16, 2014, 05:07:33 AM
Obviously there should be a standard minimum living wage set by law, and if the current one isn't actually liveable on then it should be raised. In this country we have a real problem with the benefits system because for a lot of people it's not worth it to work. You can earn the same if not more than the minimum wage by just shitting out a couple of kids and living tax free in a free house, so I can't blame them really. The system needs to be fixed and it needs to be beneficial for people to want to get back into work and raising the minimum wage is one way to do this.

I think we should try to find a system where any amount of income earned nets person more money, while the basic needs are still covered. Basic wage could be one of these. Ofc, there is lot of issues with implementation and cost differences between countries...
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