[POLL] Using AI to predict outcomes - page 28.

AicecreaME

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Quote from: Supreemo on April 11, 2023, 01:30:15 AM

or it could be possible that they will pay someone to tweak the AI so that it will favor the house. a lot of speculations are already going around with AI and mostly it is related to how it will be integrated into existing platforms like casinos, but right now there was still no news regarding huge hacking related to AI, though we are already assuming there will be problems in regards to that, right now the house is also aware of this possibility and for sure they are also working on something to counter this kind of loop hole. there is even a possibility that in order to order to counter AI they will also use AI.

Now that you've mentioned this, this could happen especially when big money is involved, things can flow a different way.

If the AI's developer just want enough recognition and enough money in exchange for the gambling AI built, then there will be no problem regarding bribery of tweaking the predicted results to the benefit of the casino site. However, if the developer wants to tie up with the giants or whichever casino that will give them the amount they need or want, then there's a possibility that there will be an agreement between the two for the mutual benefits, hence, producing a tweaked version of results being in favor to the house for more profits.

It's also possible to counter AI with an AI. It will just be a matter of detection and of course, maintenance of the system to know which works better than the other. To relate, but not entirely about gambling, this is in connection with AI vs AI, there's now a feature of turnitin wherein it is able to pinpoint which phrases or paragraphs are written by chagpt. This could also happen in the future in gambling AIs to determine and counter another AI.

Supreemo

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Quote from: Fredomago on April 10, 2023, 05:10:23 PM

Quote from: molsewid on April 10, 2023, 10:46:38 AM

Quote from: Fredomago on April 10, 2023, 06:51:40 AM

Good argument as casino owners will not let that happened, it's their business and they will do everything to make sure that they still have the upper hand, if AI developers can create a system that can give gamblers some edge in predicting the possible outcome of the game, then bookies will make sure that they will have also a system that can counter that.

Casino owners are business people who can spend money to get good assurance that they will not throw their money and be a cash cow
for the gamblers.

But instead, they will continue the edge against the players when they play around the house, a same cycle from what they
are dealing today.

I agree, I think most of well known casino now hired someone to develop this kind of system that will help them not to be easily hacked by someone using AI, or will cheat the entire game using AI. AI can beat another AI, and also it still needs a maintenance and maybe frequent upgrades for bugs and additional security and features that may help a casino. But we need to be informed that it will not create 100% predictions.

Yeah right, and for sure casino owners will not let that to happen they will find ways same thing with how gamblers are trying to take some advantages using AI, with the same system casino owners will also look for the counter and will continue to enjoy their business. We will see more updates about it.

If AI for gamblers will dominate, we will expect to see more casinos to close. It's simply logical that if bookies can't handle AI, then they will just give out their money for free, right?

or it could be possible that they will pay someone to tweak the AI so that it will favor the house. a lot of speculations are already going around with AI and mostly it is related to how it will be integrated into existing platforms like casinos, but right now there was still no news regarding huge hacking related to AI, though we are already assuming there will be problems in regards to that, right now the house is also aware of this possibility and for sure they are also working on something to counter this kind of loop hole. there is even a possibility that in order to order to counter AI they will also use AI.

nullama

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Quote from: wxa7115 on April 10, 2023, 08:32:04 PM

~snip~
This is going to be interesting, because in the case of humans anything that we create belong to us and we can exploit it as we want, but AI is not protected in that way so everything that it creates can be copied by others.

And while this is not a problem in the case of a gambling AI, I wonder what will happen to all the content which will be created by AI from now on, most likely the humans behind such an AI will take the credit instead as a way to protect that content and commercially exploit it as they see fit.

It has always been like this.

Back in the days someone told you something, you then used that information to create something.

Then that transfer was done through writing and reading books.

Then through the Internet by searching and reading manually.

Now it's done with an entity that does the search for you and summarizes the results.

It's always been the same, you get information from somewhere else, then you create something.

wxa7115

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Quote from: nullama on April 05, 2023, 08:29:19 PM

Quote from: wxa7115 on April 04, 2023, 11:39:34 PM

~snip~
And in that case an AI will be way better than a human gambler, after all a human gambler can only have a limited expertise on a small number of sports, however an AI as long as it has enough data to produce models could in theory make bets on every single market available to it.

This could give a massive advantage to the developers of such an AI as there are markets that due to their unpopularity may offer better opportunities for profits, especially if we compare them to other markets which are more popular and in which casinos put more attention, and as such profits are more difficult to obtain.

Absolutely.

The thing is that a human requires a lot of time, years, to become good at a specific thing. Whereas the AI will take only weeks to become a master of any field. Over time the AI just gets better, whereas humans tend to plateau or even get worse after some years.

We are experiencing a shift right now. We already passed the digital transformation era, now everything is online. We're entering the AI wave, in which content will be created by AI instead of humans. Sure, the final creator will be the human, but the tools used will be AI powered.

This is going to be interesting, because in the case of humans anything that we create belong to us and we can exploit it as we want, but AI is not protected in that way so everything that it creates can be copied by others.

And while this is not a problem in the case of a gambling AI, I wonder what will happen to all the content which will be created by AI from now on, most likely the humans behind such an AI will take the credit instead as a way to protect that content and commercially exploit it as they see fit.

Fredomago

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Quote from: molsewid on April 10, 2023, 10:46:38 AM

Quote from: Fredomago on April 10, 2023, 06:51:40 AM

Good argument as casino owners will not let that happened, it's their business and they will do everything to make sure that they still have the upper hand, if AI developers can create a system that can give gamblers some edge in predicting the possible outcome of the game, then bookies will make sure that they will have also a system that can counter that.

Casino owners are business people who can spend money to get good assurance that they will not throw their money and be a cash cow
for the gamblers.

But instead, they will continue the edge against the players when they play around the house, a same cycle from what they
are dealing today.

I agree, I think most of well known casino now hired someone to develop this kind of system that will help them not to be easily hacked by someone using AI, or will cheat the entire game using AI. AI can beat another AI, and also it still needs a maintenance and maybe frequent upgrades for bugs and additional security and features that may help a casino. But we need to be informed that it will not create 100% predictions.

Yeah right, and for sure casino owners will not let that to happen they will find ways same thing with how gamblers are trying to take some advantages using AI, with the same system casino owners will also look for the counter and will continue to enjoy their business. We will see more updates about it.

If AI for gamblers will dominate, we will expect to see more casinos to close. It's simply logical that if bookies can't handle AI, then they will just give out their money for free, right?

molsewid

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Quote from: Fredomago on April 10, 2023, 06:51:40 AM

Good argument as casino owners will not let that happened, it's their business and they will do everything to make sure that they still have the upper hand, if AI developers can create a system that can give gamblers some edge in predicting the possible outcome of the game, then bookies will make sure that they will have also a system that can counter that.

Casino owners are business people who can spend money to get good assurance that they will not throw their money and be a cash cow
for the gamblers.

But instead, they will continue the edge against the players when they play around the house, a same cycle from what they
are dealing today.

I agree, I think most of well known casino now hired someone to develop this kind of system that will help them not to be easily hacked by someone using AI, or will cheat the entire game using AI. AI can beat another AI, and also it still needs a maintenance and maybe frequent upgrades for bugs and additional security and features that may help a casino. But we need to be informed that it will not create 100% predictions.

Fredomago

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Quote from: len01 on April 10, 2023, 05:37:59 AM

Quote from: coin-investor on April 09, 2023, 06:19:11 PM

Quote from: cabron on April 05, 2023, 10:45:32 AM

AIs analyzing sports accurately may really destroy sports gambling. I can only see gamblers relying much on it to make money, the lazier we become since it's like having a glimpse of the future result.

If the development of AIs continues there will come a time when these developers can create a perfect AI that can actually predict results in sports betting and many casinos will be in trouble, even newbies in sports betting can beat the house and this is not good for the industry.

when AI is developed and can predict accurately about sports betting remember, casino is smart and casino will still win when it comes to betting. if the casinos caught wind of this, they'd be willing to risk spending more money to pay the people who developed the AI. so that in the end the house will win.

let's take as an example some of the ways to make a profit in sports betting such as arbitrage which sportsbooks can detect and end up having their funds confiscated. don't the casinos still win?
in this case whatever is done to beat the house, it is just a waste.

Good argument as casino owners will not let that happened, it's their business and they will do everything to make sure that they still have the upper hand, if AI developers can create a system that can give gamblers some edge in predicting the possible outcome of the game, then bookies will make sure that they will have also a system that can counter that.

Casino owners are business people who can spend money to get good assurance that they will not throw their money and be a cash cow
for the gamblers.

But instead, they will continue the edge against the players when they play around the house, a same cycle from what they
are dealing today.

len01

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Quote from: coin-investor on April 09, 2023, 06:19:11 PM

Quote from: cabron on April 05, 2023, 10:45:32 AM

AIs analyzing sports accurately may really destroy sports gambling. I can only see gamblers relying much on it to make money, the lazier we become since it's like having a glimpse of the future result.

If the development of AIs continues there will come a time when these developers can create a perfect AI that can actually predict results in sports betting and many casinos will be in trouble, even newbies in sports betting can beat the house and this is not good for the industry.

when AI is developed and can predict accurately about sports betting remember, casino is smart and casino will still win when it comes to betting. if the casinos caught wind of this, they'd be willing to risk spending more money to pay the people who developed the AI. so that in the end the house will win.

let's take as an example some of the ways to make a profit in sports betting such as arbitrage which sportsbooks can detect and end up having their funds confiscated. don't the casinos still win?
in this case whatever is done to beat the house, it is just a waste.

robelneo

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Quote from: nullama on April 10, 2023, 02:23:15 AM

People can ask for stopping anything, but if there's benefit to be made, someone, somewhere will be pushing for it.

I don't think it can be stopped even Elon cannot do it, he can only appeal and even if he uses his influence the developers will not listen, companies are always looking to cut their costs, and AI is the answer, and if these AI has a fair winning rate gamblers will be tempted to use them they will prefer to take a chance on AI than prefer to take a chance on their chances.
AI will remain and it will find its way into the gambling sector because there are gamblers who will not stop finding the right strategy to win or beat the house.

Betwrong

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Quote from: cabron on April 05, 2023, 10:45:32 AM

AIs analyzing sports accurately may really destroy sports gambling. I can only see gamblers relying much on it to make money, the lazier we become since it's like having a glimpse of the future result.

What about the protest of Elon that AI development must be stopped? I was watching the news about it recently that government may actually prohibit the further development of AIs.

No, sports betting will not go anywhere. Even if AIs' analysis will be very accurate, it will never be perfect. Let's assume that AI predicts Liverpool to win, and it's previous predictions were 99% accurate. Of course most people will bet on Liverpool in that case, and, as a result, they will be betting with something like 1.009 odds. Thus, bettors that will bet on another team, will get great odds for their bets, and they will get a good multiplier on their bet in that rare case when AI turned out to be wrong. There will always be enough of such people. In fact, I would be one of them betting against the AI. I'm sure, it would be fun.

nullama

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Quote from: coin-investor on April 09, 2023, 06:19:11 PM

Quote from: cabron on April 05, 2023, 10:45:32 AM

AIs analyzing sports accurately may really destroy sports gambling. I can only see gamblers relying much on it to make money, the lazier we become since it's like having a glimpse of the future result.

If the development of AIs continues there will come a time when these developers can create a perfect AI that can actually predict results in sports betting and many casinos will be in trouble, even newbies in sports betting can beat the house and this is not good for the industry.

Quote

What about the protest of Elon that AI development must be stopped? I was watching the news about it recently that government may actually prohibit the further development of AIs.

He is right in calling for that because there's a risk for society many will lose their jobs and will be replaced by these AI, there could be a time when industries will heavily dependent on AI because its cheap and industries can save a lot, I have seen this scene in one of the series of the movie Terminator.

There will always be a random element in any sports competition, so gambling will always be there, even if the AIs are extremely accurate in predicting the odds. Remember that it's just the odds they calculate, say a coin has 50% chances in showing heads after a toss. The casino simply pays say 45 cents for every dollar you bet. In the long term the casino will make money because it pays less than what's expected, 50c. So the same applies with sports betting, just more complicated. Even if the AI gets the odds perfect, the casinos just pay less.

People can ask for stopping anything, but if there's benefit to be made, someone, somewhere will be pushing for it.

coin-investor

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Quote from: cabron on April 05, 2023, 10:45:32 AM

AIs analyzing sports accurately may really destroy sports gambling. I can only see gamblers relying much on it to make money, the lazier we become since it's like having a glimpse of the future result.

If the development of AIs continues there will come a time when these developers can create a perfect AI that can actually predict results in sports betting and many casinos will be in trouble, even newbies in sports betting can beat the house and this is not good for the industry.

Quote

What about the protest of Elon that AI development must be stopped? I was watching the news about it recently that government may actually prohibit the further development of AIs.

He is right in calling for that because there's a risk for society many will lose their jobs and will be replaced by these AI, there could be a time when industries will heavily dependent on AI because its cheap and industries can save a lot, I have seen this scene in one of the series of the movie Terminator.

maydna

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Quote from: nicolas1979 on April 06, 2023, 05:31:27 PM

Quote from: OgNasty on December 08, 2022, 11:11:37 PM

ChatGPT is all the rage at the moment. I’ve seen that people are asking it to predict sporting events. Would you leave gambling decisions up to artificial intelligence? Do you see any potential drawbacks for outsourcing your bets to a software program? Has anyone here tried this yet? Do we need someone to put together a thread of ChatGPT predictions to see how accurate they are? Any other thoughts?

We will rely on the software if a gambling is related to casinos, card games, and the like. But with regards to sports, many predictions failed. But sports are more easily managed by gambling experts when they are in the field. This is not a matter of prediction, but rather a game of the system.

Not really, because in sports betting, you can increase your chances of winning if you have more information about the game. And when ChatGPT is more advanced than it is now so it can collect more useful information, perhaps, your chances will also be higher because you can find out who will win in that match.

But unfortunately, ChatGPT cannot be used as a tool to collect more accurate information. But we can still try to find that information ourselves through many sources.

nullama

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Quote from: Fatunad on April 06, 2023, 05:20:30 PM

~snip~

Even how AI would be enhanced or progressed out but still it would really be that human beings or its creator are still superior on some angles but we cant deny that AI creation is something revolutionary which would really be that beneficial for the entire human race. There are really some doubts and anxieties about it because they've been thinking negatively about being a threat to humanity without even trying to
go into that realistic side of things. Speaking about applying it out on predicting outcomes then it could give out tips and suggestions but since gambling is totally random in terms of outcomes
then it wouldnt really be that just as precise.
[/quote]

Yeah, at the end of the day, it's humans using these new tools the ones that will benefit from these things.

People relying on older technology will end up with worse or slower results.

nicolas1979

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Quote from: OgNasty on December 08, 2022, 11:11:37 PM

ChatGPT is all the rage at the moment. I’ve seen that people are asking it to predict sporting events. Would you leave gambling decisions up to artificial intelligence? Do you see any potential drawbacks for outsourcing your bets to a software program? Has anyone here tried this yet? Do we need someone to put together a thread of ChatGPT predictions to see how accurate they are? Any other thoughts?

We will rely on the software if a gambling is related to casinos, card games, and the like. But with regards to sports, many predictions failed. But sports are more easily managed by gambling experts when they are in the field. This is not a matter of prediction, but rather a game of the system.

Fatunad

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Quote from: nullama on April 05, 2023, 08:29:19 PM

Quote from: wxa7115 on April 04, 2023, 11:39:34 PM

~snip~
And in that case an AI will be way better than a human gambler, after all a human gambler can only have a limited expertise on a small number of sports, however an AI as long as it has enough data to produce models could in theory make bets on every single market available to it.

This could give a massive advantage to the developers of such an AI as there are markets that due to their unpopularity may offer better opportunities for profits, especially if we compare them to other markets which are more popular and in which casinos put more attention, and as such profits are more difficult to obtain.

Absolutely.

The thing is that a human requires a lot of time, years, to become good at a specific thing. Whereas the AI will take only weeks to become a master of any field. Over time the AI just gets better, whereas humans tend to plateau or even get worse after some years.

We are experiencing a shift right now. We already passed the digital transformation era, now everything is online. We're entering the AI wave, in which content will be created by AI instead of humans. Sure, the final creator will be the human, but the tools used will be AI powered.

Even how AI would be enhanced or progressed out but still it would really be that human beings or its creator are still superior on some angles but we cant deny that AI creation is something revolutionary which would really be that beneficial for the entire human race. There are really some doubts and anxieties about it because they've been thinking negatively about being a threat to humanity without even trying to
go into that realistic side of things. Speaking about applying it out on predicting outcomes then it could give out tips and suggestions but since gambling is totally random in terms of outcomes
then it wouldnt really be that just as precise.

RealMalatesta

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Quote from: nullama on April 04, 2023, 03:46:14 AM

Quote from: RealMalatesta on April 04, 2023, 02:19:52 AM

~snip~
I think you are overestimating the fact that AI can somehow manage to figure out the random. Random is random and that can't be figured out, there is no way, and if you are a casino then you can use AI for your benefit, but if you are a gambler there is no way that you can use it for your benefit at all, it would not be working properly at all.

I hope that people would be doing something that could benefit them in the long run with AI, like even medical stuff which could be pretty good, but obviously there is a big question mark of should it even be responsible for it. But the help would always be welcomed but when it comes to gambling? I do not think so.

Well, it all depends on what you are measuring, and the data available.

For example, if you throw a dice there's one out of six chances that a number 6 appears. That's because you don't know anything about the dice, but in reality the more you know, the closer and better probabilities you can calculate. Maybe that particular dice is loaded, and maybe you know how it's being thrown, the environment, etc, the more you know, the better prediction you can get, and maybe you know that in that particular case the chances of getting a 6 are more like 50% instead of 1 out of 6.

So, random is completely random when you don't know any better, but if you do know more information you can definitely reduce the noise and get a better estimate.

That is a wishful thinking and nothing more. If you roll a dice, you get six one out of six times on average, and that's the only thing that matters, rest are wishful data and not real data, they are not valid logical hard concrete data. The "wind" or whatever, is not going to get calculated. I know it is just an example, but when you look at sports for example, from the morale to the weather, to having a fight with gf before the game, all of that is a big deal and that's what matters.

AI won't know about that, there is no world AI can calculate "all" the data, and that is why we won't know who will win a game before it happens, we can know "probably" who will win, but we already know that, it's called odds.

dezoel

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Quote from: wxa7115 on April 04, 2023, 11:39:34 PM

Quote from: nullama on April 04, 2023, 07:08:37 PM

At the end of the day, the "feeling" is also based on previous data, so the AI could in theory model that as well.

For example, if you watch a couple of teams from another country playing against each other, and you've never seen or heard about them before, you probably won't have any "feeling" about one or the other.

And in that case an AI will be way better than a human gambler, after all a human gambler can only have a limited expertise on a small number of sports, however an AI as long as it has enough data to produce models could in theory make bets on every single market available to it.

This could give a massive advantage to the developers of such an AI as there are markets that due to their unpopularity may offer better opportunities for profits, especially if we compare them to other markets which are more popular and in which casinos put more attention, and as such profits are more difficult to obtain.

We agree that AI can be able to attain expertise in every sport, and might even be able to bet on almost every market based on research and analysis that it does, but as discussed earlier, what about the things that only a human can see and know? Like an injury of a player, which happens on the same day when the match is about to be played.

Now, the human who is about to bet on that game will keep himself updated and will surely see the news somewhere like on TV, etc. But what about AI? If it misses a massive update that is a game changer, it will probably still place the bet without knowing that, and it can cause a loss for sure.

nullama

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Quote from: wxa7115 on April 04, 2023, 11:39:34 PM

~snip~
And in that case an AI will be way better than a human gambler, after all a human gambler can only have a limited expertise on a small number of sports, however an AI as long as it has enough data to produce models could in theory make bets on every single market available to it.

This could give a massive advantage to the developers of such an AI as there are markets that due to their unpopularity may offer better opportunities for profits, especially if we compare them to other markets which are more popular and in which casinos put more attention, and as such profits are more difficult to obtain.

Absolutely.

The thing is that a human requires a lot of time, years, to become good at a specific thing. Whereas the AI will take only weeks to become a master of any field. Over time the AI just gets better, whereas humans tend to plateau or even get worse after some years.

We are experiencing a shift right now. We already passed the digital transformation era, now everything is online. We're entering the AI wave, in which content will be created by AI instead of humans. Sure, the final creator will be the human, but the tools used will be AI powered.

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Quote from: michellee on April 05, 2023, 08:49:54 AM

The presence of AI is still being debated because some feel that AI can help many human activities, including finding complete information. The AI itself is still in the development stage. And maybe if AI can develop to a more advanced stage than now that can really help human activities, we will see how this AI works.

Today's AI developers are still trying to perfect AI technology, which doesn't stop them from achieving what they want. And the popularity of AI itself will slowly rise so that we can use AI properly. And maybe later, we can use AI to find more and valid information that we can use as additional information to bet.

It might be under debate, but the reality is that it already is helping many human activities, the activities can range from writing emails to helping developers with their coding activities. I know that it isn't perfect, everyone knows that, but it does well and with a little tweaking done by a human, the work it does is perfectly useful.

But, that doesn't include gambling or betting, because that isn't something it can do very well. If you ask it to do some research for you or analyze a match and give you a pick based on that, it might do that but the result will surely not be perfect and accurate.

Topic: [POLL] Using AI to predict outcomes - page 28. (Read 10042 times)