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Topic: Pollard's kangaroo ECDLP solver - page 113. (Read 59490 times)

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June 02, 2020, 10:08:11 AM
As said by MrFreeDragon this kind of ASIC is dedicated to hashing only and Kangaroo has nothing to do with hashing. To my knowledge no ASIC exist for ECDSA calculation...


Think about ASIC's please buddy ! OpenCL is utopia, I'm sorry for your time and effort. it's better then to bring the CUDA version to perfection.
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June 02, 2020, 10:06:09 AM
ASIC means Application-Specific Integrated Circuit which means that you have to build a dedicated electronic component to do the job, you probably want to say FPGA ?
I have only a little experience with FPGA programming and powerful development boards are rather expensive, maybe I can try to get one from my job, I don't know but this is not yet planned...



Yes Buddy !https://www.aliexpress.com/popular/asic-bitcoin-miner.html

Buddy Bitcoin ASIC miner old used core a1 25Th/s  !!!! https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33042353113.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000023.4.3c6e4056Fsb9L6


This is a equipment is more adecwate for Kangatoo task i think. Kangaaroo needed a PETA and Terra hash per second not mega or giga.


What you think about this ? ? ?

Bro without ASIC support progect will have not ggod future I think. Because keys 150 Buyts not awaliable for GPU, no one have a 100 or 200 GPUs.

I think it is better to use the maximum available power and this power is not provided by the GPU but ASIC's

Br
Jean luc and zeiler will arrange more then 2000 GPU's, they have source, COBRAS just enjoy all development, and test it as its available

You already anjoy Huh You have a 100 GPU ? Hahahahahaha

ASIC'S have many configuration not only for hashing.
member
Activity: 348
Merit: 34
June 02, 2020, 10:04:16 AM
ASIC means Application-Specific Integrated Circuit which means that you have to build a dedicated electronic component to do the job, you probably want to say FPGA ?
I have only a little experience with FPGA programming and powerful development boards are rather expensive, maybe I can try to get one from my job, I don't know but this is not yet planned...



Yes Buddy !https://www.aliexpress.com/popular/asic-bitcoin-miner.html

Buddy Bitcoin ASIC miner old used core a1 25Th/s  !!!! https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33042353113.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000023.4.3c6e4056Fsb9L6


This is a equipment is more adecwate for Kangatoo task i think. Kangaaroo needed a PETA and Terra hash per second not mega or giga.


What you think about this ? ? ?

Bro without ASIC support progect will have not ggod future I think. Because keys 150 Buyts not awaliable for GPU, no one have a 100 or 200 GPUs.

I think it is better to use the maximum available power and this power is not provided by the GPU but ASIC's

Br
Maybe BitCrack help you for asic design systems, ask BitCrack about this
member
Activity: 348
Merit: 34
June 02, 2020, 10:02:09 AM
ASIC means Application-Specific Integrated Circuit which means that you have to build a dedicated electronic component to do the job, you probably want to say FPGA ?
I have only a little experience with FPGA programming and powerful development boards are rather expensive, maybe I can try to get one from my job, I don't know but this is not yet planned...



Yes Buddy !https://www.aliexpress.com/popular/asic-bitcoin-miner.html

Buddy Bitcoin ASIC miner old used core a1 25Th/s  !!!! https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33042353113.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000023.4.3c6e4056Fsb9L6


This is a equipment is more adecwate for Kangatoo task i think. Kangaaroo needed a PETA and Terra hash per second not mega or giga.


What you think about this ? ? ?

Bro without ASIC support progect will have not ggod future I think. Because keys 150 Buyts not awaliable for GPU, no one have a 100 or 200 GPUs.

I think it is better to use the maximum available power and this power is not provided by the GPU but ASIC's

Br
Jean luc and zeiler will arrange more then 2000 GPU's, they have source, COBRAS just enjoy all development, and test it as its available
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 701
June 02, 2020, 10:01:15 AM
As said by MrFreeDragon this kind of ASIC is dedicated to hashing only and Kangaroo has nothing to do with hashing. To my knowledge no ASIC exist for ECDSA calculation...
member
Activity: 873
Merit: 22
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June 02, 2020, 09:53:41 AM
ASIC means Application-Specific Integrated Circuit which means that you have to build a dedicated electronic component to do the job, you probably want to say FPGA ?
I have only a little experience with FPGA programming and powerful development boards are rather expensive, maybe I can try to get one from my job, I don't know but this is not yet planned...



Yes Buddy !https://www.aliexpress.com/popular/asic-bitcoin-miner.html

Buddy Bitcoin ASIC miner old used core a1 25Th/s  !!!! https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33042353113.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000023.4.3c6e4056Fsb9L6


This is a equipment is more adecwate for Kangatoo task i think. Kangaaroo needed a PETA and Terra hash per second not mega or giga.


What you think about this ? ? ?

Bro without ASIC support progect will have not ggod future I think. Because keys 150 Buyts not awaliable for GPU, no one have a 100 or 200 GPUs.

I think it is better to use the maximum available power and this power is not provided by the GPU but ASIC's

Br
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 701
June 02, 2020, 09:46:21 AM
ASIC means Application-Specific Integrated Circuit which means that you have to build a dedicated electronic component to do the job, you probably want to say FPGA ?
I have only a little experience with FPGA programming and powerful development boards are rather expensive, maybe I can try to get one from my job, I don't know but this is not yet planned...
sr. member
Activity: 443
Merit: 350
June 02, 2020, 09:45:35 AM
-snip-
Because you will restart work, Can you start make a version for ASIC Huh I think because KANGAROO need very many power, ASIC version is more perspective and adequate task for solving KANGAROO.

Huh
-snip-

This is impossible. Kangaroo works with elliptic curve operations (ECDSA) and no need to hash anything.
ASIC was designed for hash calculations. ASIC works only with algorithms designed by the producer: SHA-256, Scrypt, Cryptonight, Ethash, Blake, X11. Different models have different set of algorithms.

For Kangaroo algorithm only the elliptic curve operations are required (i.e. transformation of the private key to the public key, operations with the points such as additions, subtractions and multiplications). ASICS does not support it.
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Activity: 873
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June 02, 2020, 09:10:43 AM
Can you explain yourself better? What is 'Ygrid' ?

Ygrid is the second coordinate of the GPU thread array.
It affects performance. This is very useful for linear algebra because you can use thread coordinates to make fast matrix calculus.
In our case, this is just used to tune performance.

I was in weekend, Yesterday was also a day off in France, I restart the work today. I also have professional work to perform but I will continue to make update on github when I can for everybody. I will try to integrate ASAP the mods from  PatatasFritas and the support of -ws for the client mode. News from AndrewBrz who is progressing well with the OpenCL kernel.

Zielar solved #110 with official 1.8 and 1.9alpha for merging.


Good day Jean_Luc.

Because you will restart work, Can you start make a version for ASIC Huh I think because KANGAROO need very many power, ASIC version is more perspective and adequate task for solving KANGAROO.

Huh


If you don't have an ASIC I think the discussion participants will support the idea of chipping in money and buying you one !





What you think about this ?

BR.  Wink
jr. member
Activity: 30
Merit: 122
June 02, 2020, 07:32:46 AM


what does all these values mean ?

what is important here the Dp counter all other counters show 2^-inf


btw is someone open to share some workfiles for merge together ?

DP count is most important. You are running at DP 25, so it will take 2^57 (whatever expected group ops is for 115) - 2^25 (your DP setting) so roughly you want your DP count up to 2^32 to be getting close to solving.

I have files for DP 30.  So I need to get close to 2^27 to be getting close to solving. 2^57(expected ops) - 2^30(my DP setting) = 2^27 DP count .



The number of points represented by the DPs is most important. If you are using a 30-bit distinguisher on GPUs, it is going to take way more than 2^27 DP's to solve #115.
You think so? I was using the math that was explained to me...I'm not an expert like some here, but I've seen it been said that way several times.
How long say you, or better yet, how many DPs do I need? 2^what?

That 2^27 figure assumes the average walk length is 2^30. The GPU works by doing many slow walks in parallel e.g. 60 million walks that do 20 iterations per second. At that rate, it will take 2^30 / 20 seconds = 1.7 years before any of the walks are 2^30. Your DP count is going to be a few powers of 2 higher than 27.
sr. member
Activity: 661
Merit: 250
June 02, 2020, 07:26:57 AM
Can you explain yourself better? What is 'Ygrid' ?

Ygrid is the second coordinate of the GPU thread array.
It affects performance. This is very useful for linear algebra because you can use thread coordinates to make fast matrix calculus.
In our case, this is just used to tune performance.

I was in weekend, Yesterday was also a day off in France, I restart the work today. I also have professional work to perform but I will continue to make update on github when I can for everybody. I will try to integrate ASAP the mods from  PatatasFritas and the support of -ws for the client mode. News from AndrewBrz who is progressing well with the OpenCL kernel.

Zielar solved #110 with official 1.8 and 1.9alpha for merging.

It'll be interesting to see what my Vega VIIs can do. They murder all the RTX cards when mining ethash (90 to 100 Mh/s compared to 40-55 Mh/s). I know mining is different but we shall see how they perform when it comes to this program. Hopefully Andrew has success, at least for himself.
Someone is working on opencl support ?
legendary
Activity: 1932
Merit: 2077
June 02, 2020, 03:38:09 AM
Can you explain yourself better? What is 'Ygrid' ?

Ygrid is the second coordinate of the GPU thread array.
It affects performance. This is very useful for linear algebra because you can use thread coordinates to make fast matrix calculus.
In our case, this is just used to tune performance.

Thanks.

About using an experience of previous work.
----
So as you can see an experience didn`t help to solve next pazzle faster.
Most likely because the range is increased by 32 times in the next puzzle, and all DPs are concentrated at the very beginning of the range. Perhaps experience can help in solving the next range, but not after 5 bits.

And here is result of 3 test randomly generated keys in range 64bit and with experience from the puzzle 79:
...
In all three cases, experience helped me find the key faster.

The result is that experience helps you find the key in the current range or in the previous one, but it is absolutely useless to search in the following range that is multiple large to the current one.

In other words, in order to solve the puzzle faster you need to move from end to beginning .. first 125, then 120, then 115 and then 110))

There is a way to reuse the same DP's set in a different range.

If you have DPs in range [1,...,2^109] and you need DPs in [1,...,2^114], it is enough to

transform [1, ..., 2^114] into [1/32, 2*1/32, 3*1/32, ....,  2^114 *1 / 32 = 2^109] (a 'contraction')

where 1/32 means 32^-1 mod N. There are always 2^114 elements,  and the public key P becomes P'= 1/32 * P and lies in the same interval.

You can see [1/32, 2*1/32, 3*1/32, ....,  2^114 *1 / 32 = 2^109] as the set of the private keys respect of G,
or the same points set can be represented as [1,...,2^114]', the set of the private keys respect of G' = 1/32 * G

In this way the DPs are spread uniformly in the interval [1, ..., 2^114]'. The private key of each DP respect of G' is the previous private key * 32.

You have to modify the jumps too, instead of +r*G you have to perform +r*G', where G' = (1/32) * G.

Then you will find the private key k' of P' respect of G', that is the same private key k of P respect of G.

Basically so far we have used only the 'translation' of the interval, but we can use a 'expansion/contraction' too.
full member
Activity: 1162
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Shooters Shoot...
June 02, 2020, 02:19:23 AM
Can you explain yourself better? What is 'Ygrid' ?

Ygrid is the second coordinate of the GPU thread array.
It affects performance. This is very useful for linear algebra because you can use thread coordinates to make fast matrix calculus.
In our case, this is just used to tune performance.

I was in weekend, Yesterday was also a day off in France, I restart the work today. I also have professional work to perform but I will continue to make update on github when I can for everybody. I will try to integrate ASAP the mods from  PatatasFritas and the support of -ws for the client mode. News from AndrewBrz who is progressing well with the OpenCL kernel.

Zielar solved #110 with official 1.8 and 1.9alpha for merging.

It'll be interesting to see what my Vega VIIs can do. They murder all the RTX cards when mining ethash (90 to 100 Mh/s compared to 40-55 Mh/s). I know mining is different but we shall see how they perform when it comes to this program. Hopefully Andrew has success, at least for himself.
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 701
June 02, 2020, 01:40:52 AM
Can you explain yourself better? What is 'Ygrid' ?

Ygrid is the second coordinate of the GPU thread array.
It affects performance. This is very useful for linear algebra because you can use thread coordinates to make fast matrix calculus.
In our case, this is just used to tune performance.

I was in weekend, Yesterday was also a day off in France, I restart the work today. I also have professional work to perform but I will continue to make update on github when I can for everybody. I will try to integrate ASAP the mods from  PatatasFritas and the support of -ws for the client mode. News from AndrewBrz who is progressing well with the OpenCL kernel.

Zielar solved #110 with official 1.8 and 1.9alpha for merging.
member
Activity: 170
Merit: 58
June 02, 2020, 01:38:25 AM

I receive "Segmentation fault (core dumped)" each time I want to use --keyspace
sr. member
Activity: 642
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June 02, 2020, 01:28:24 AM
@WanderingPhilospher

what happens when I want to merge dp30 files and dp 25 file it takes only the lower dp or not?
if you have 5 DPs=31 and 4 DPs=25 when merge you will get 9 DPs=25.(ofcourse if points different)
in this case droping from 31 to 25 you will need again find 64 times more new points (2^(31-25))
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Activity: 1162
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Shooters Shoot...
June 01, 2020, 11:18:48 PM
@WanderingPhilospher

what happens when I want to merge dp30 files and dp 25 file it takes only the lower dp or not?

Etar can explain it a lot better than me because I'm not really sure...Jean Luc's README states:

Quote
However, work files are compatible (same key and range) and can be merged, if 2 work files have a different number of distinguished bits, the lowest will be recorded in the destination file.

So yes, it can be done, but I'm not sure if it helps much. Etar studied this in depth and combined his DP 31 and DP 28, I think.
jr. member
Activity: 91
Merit: 3
June 01, 2020, 11:13:22 PM
@WanderingPhilospher

what happens when I want to merge dp30 files and dp 25 file it takes only the lower dp or not?
full member
Activity: 1162
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Shooters Shoot...
June 01, 2020, 08:45:30 PM

Doing some tests with your job :
~780MKs on 2060 ( core +120, PL60 )
~950MKs on 2070 ( core +120, PL60 )

Only needed few changes in my tool to run your version, thanks !

Concur...been flying through some ranges. Solid version. Just testing. I am trying to figure out the continue option...I want to use it every 30-60 seconds without the +100000 rekey option; without losing power. Asked Tela, hopefully he understands and knows how to. I manually changed the +100000 and went from 3400ish MK/s to 1200 MK/s.
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Activity: 1162
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Shooters Shoot...
June 01, 2020, 08:41:52 PM


what does all these values mean ?

what is important here the Dp counter all other counters show 2^-inf


btw is someone open to share some workfiles for merge together ?

DP count is most important. You are running at DP 25, so it will take 2^57 (whatever expected group ops is for 115) - 2^25 (your DP setting) so roughly you want your DP count up to 2^32 to be getting close to solving.

I have files for DP 30.  So I need to get close to 2^27 to be getting close to solving. 2^57(expected ops) - 2^30(my DP setting) = 2^27 DP count .



The number of points represented by the DPs is most important. If you are using a 30-bit distinguisher on GPUs, it is going to take way more than 2^27 DP's to solve #115.
You think so? I was using the math that was explained to me...I'm not an expert like some here, but I've seen it been said that way several times.
How long say you, or better yet, how many DPs do I need? 2^what?
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