Topic: PorcFest 2012 -- Biggest Bitcoin event ever - page 4. (Read 18016 times)

Here are some more pics (thanks Vanessa), for those interesting in coming next year:

If there is, it's probably European.

I think Aristotle has a solution to this problem.

satan = imaginary
porcfest = real
libertarians = real
guns = real
bitcoin = real

ergo

satan != porcfest
satan != libertarians
satan != guns
satan != bitcoin

Please go hijack some other topic. Isn't there a paranoid evangelical forum somewhere on the internet where they're all too happy to discuss satan and his 20 followers?

The first sentence of the page you linked to proves my point
You also linked to a link that proves my point:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apatheism

As for Satanism, you also linked to the article that proves my point.  I'm not sure which point you were trying to make with the link, but since you mentioned LeVey, I will pull the relevant portion from that section of the article:


See that "Who regard Satan" bit?  Yeah... so, you were saying?

Thanks for the True Scotsman link, it is interesting.  But what's a "True horse?"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism#Atheistic.2FDeistic_Satanism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnosticism#Types_of_agnosticism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_Scotsman_problem

catch up on your reading.

Then they aren't satanist.  That's pretty simple to understand, I'm surprised you are having a hard time grasping that.  They may be something else, but they aren't satanists.  I'm not sure what Queen Elisabeth has to do with the discussion, as the analogy is not even vaguely similar.

Yes, language changes, but the definition of a descriptive term does not change, otherwise it's not a descriptive term.  A "satanist" is defined as one who worships satan, go ahead and look it up if you'd like.  If you aren't worshiping satan, you are not a satanist.  I suspect, though, that you are just using that term to garner attention and be inflammatory.


Wow, you really have no idea what the definition of words are, do you?  Agnosticism is nothing like apatheism.  Agnostics are the undecided.  They do not know whether a deity exists or not.  That is very different from not caring or the question being completely meaningless.  There's a thing called the Agnostics prayer, you might want to look it up.  It describes agnosticism fairly well.

I have absolutely no idea what  "true horse" or a "true scottsman" is, nor do I see how it relates to anything being discussed.

^this

I also see in Las Vegas, July 11-14, 2012:

Freedom Fest
 - http://freedomfest.com/keynote-speakers/
 - http://freedomfest.com/all-other-speakers/

Looks generally focused on banking, investment and politics.

Some interesting presenters, including:
 - Tom Woods (@ThomasEWoods)
 - Jeff Berwick (@DollarVigilante)
 - Bob Prechter (@RobertPrechter) (Elliot Wave theory creator)


Then in August in Florida right before the RNC are two Libertarian events:

 - http://musicians4freedom.com/2012/06/ron-paul-supporters-now-working-on-two-pre-rnc-festivals

On August  24, 25 and 26, 2012 at the Fairgrounds in Tampa:
 
 - http://paulfestival.org

Also on Augh 24-26 in Polk County (near Tampa):

 - http://www.freedomfestival2012.com

Carlos Santana was there?!

Pleassssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss discus bitcoin? 

Yeah, that's you projecting. Open Carry is about asserting their right to, not about hoping to shoot someone. If they want to shoot something, there's plenty of targets down at the range.

difference is that la vey was a showman and the harsh formulation is very likely a result of that. makes the whole thing sound more "dark" than it actually is. while the non-aggression principal combined with open carrying is quite the opposite: sounds very peaceful but it seems to cry out "oh pleeeeease, fuck with me, shooting someone would really help with my anger management issues." but maybe thats just me.

well, queen elisabeth doesnt actually rule england and satanists dont actually worship satan. times change and so does the meaning of words. language is not logic. look it up if you dont belief me. its long been redefined, and it wasnt me 

what you describe as "true" or "real" atheism would be classified as an agnostic worldview by most people.
if you get off your true horse you might see everybody claims whatever he thinks is important is the real thing, failing to recognize that very often 99% of the rest of the world doesnt give a shit about his definition of things.
in that respect, the true scottsman is not just a rhetoric figure. many people dont realize that they incorporate their perspective into their language to a point were opposing opinions are discredited by design. as all self-immunization strategies this rather dangerous if you like to do some occasional independent thinking.
of course, strong atheism is just as ridiculous as the theism it is derived from. thats the nature of every direct negation.
 

OK, so, besides being completely out of left field, I might suggest a different take on this: I find it rather curious that Satanists follow a code so similar to the Non-Aggression Principal. Of course, those rules you mentioned are quite a bit more ruthless than the NAP, especially that last one.

Satanist: When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask them to stop. If they do not stop, destroy them.

Pretty harsh, if you ask me. Especially if you compare it to the NAP: No one has the right to initiate the use of force, threat of force, or fraud on another person.

Oh, and to get back on topic: I hope to be able to get to next year's Porc-fest. Fingers crossed!

I don't necessarily disagree with the idea behind your statements, but to label it satanism is, frankly, preposterous.  Satanism is, by definition, centered around Satan.  Satan is nominally a Christian ideal, at least the commonly accepted definition of Satan.  You can make the claims you are making, and give them another label and I would likely agree with you... but labeling what you are calling Satanism is just plain wrong.  Satanism is previously defined, we can't just redefine words willy-nilly and have them mean whatever we want them to mean.  Satanism is the worship and/or belief in Satan.  If you are doing neither, you are, by any definition, not a Satanist.  Just because your world view and rules for living your life might coincide with another groups ideals does not mean you are part of that group or that you should be labeled as such.  

This is very similar to the problem of atheism.  Everyone, everywhere is an atheist... doesn't matter what god you believe in, there are gods you do not believe in, thus you are an atheist.  Most atheists, especially the rabid ones (who are, by the way, just as ridiculous as theists), fail to understand what true atheism is.  The real atheists, such as myself, have coined our own description: Apatheist.  If you really are an atheist, then you simply won't care whether or not God exists (or Satan for that matter) and the question as to whether he exists or not is functionally meaningless.  Most self labeled "atheists" care very much and have a vested interest in trying to prove he does not exist, which puts them squarely in the same camp as theists, they just believe in something different, but both require an equal amount of faith directly proportional to your belief.  

You'll never find a true atheist saying "Hey I'm an atheist, you are an idiot for believing in god cause he doesn't exist."  A real atheist will respond to religious topics with "Don't care. Lets talk about something that is actually meaningful."

But I digress and have taken this thread WAY the F*CK off topic and I apologize.

Hey guys it was awesome meeting you all. Porcfest was fantastic.

but I FORGOT MY BITCOINS AT HOME!!!! You guys tried to help me get them and I finally found a long lost instawallet account on the last day.

Its too bad the internet really sucks at Rogers campground.

Hey Charlie, I didn't put two and two together but I have done some business with you here on the forum. You guys were great representatives of bitcoin and I watched you set up people who didnt have a clue with bitcoin. Great job!

See you next year?

-josh

see, that wasnt so hard. now that you did spell it out, i can inform you that your definition of satanism is very outdated. modern satanism turned from literal inversion of christian morality (christian evil = their good) to inverting the underlying principles. very prominently among them the inversion of reliance upon a higher being to relying only on yourself as a source of ethics and meaning in life. even those that you can describe as theistic dont worship satan as he is depicted in christian mythology - thats pretty much exclusive to teenagers and total nutjobs.



i met with people that describe themselves as satanists and did fit one of the many forms of modern satanism. mostly atheistic and unaffiliated with any particular organization, but similar in their views to either la veyan satanism or setianism.


that very much depends on your definition of "real". and that might easily turn into a true scottsman. for me, what sets a "real" satanist apart from an impostor or attention whore is the disliking or even hatred of christian ethics and the will to define an intentionally contradicting ethic. depending on the individual that might be anything from "RaaarRR i wanna hurt cute animals and listen to black metal all day" to a complex and well-reflected philosophy.

The only people who do are people who talk to the media and want the attention.  As in, real satanists are as rare as hens teeth.

Oh, sorry.  I guess I'll have to spell it out.  By definition, a satanist is a person who worships Satan.  Any version of a set of mores, whether or not they might resemble those of another group or not, notwithstanding.

Therefore, if one doesn't worship satan, how can one be a satanist?  To make the claim that Americans appear to be both christian and satanist, lacking the semantic qualifications that you later presented, seems to me to be an obvious case of culture bias.


You've met with actual satanists?  Who self describe themselves as satanists and worship Satan?  Or just some people that you assume fit that discription?

and in conclusion, no.

I met zero satanists at the event (though perhaps I missed them). I did, however, meet dozens of christians, a few jews, and a few muslims. The most religious of all were us Bitcoiners, who set up a bright LED Bitcoin sign on a tree and prayed to Satoshi every six blocks from sunrise to sunset.

Observationally speaking, if this was a satanic event, satan wouldn't have been pleased with the turnout.