Topic: Possible sale of LTC-GLOBAL site code to someone who wants to run a BTC exchange (Read 4521 times)

That's because there's tons of people who don't read through all the threads...there's such a disconnect that he has to answer the same question in three or four different threads just to let people know what's up.

Dog the bounty hunger went to jail for hopping over to Mexico to grab someone. So no.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1258823
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1258825
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1258828

Stop spamming the forums with your bullshit propaganda, EskimoBob. Your cut-and-paste campaigns are really annoying. Yes, we can read.

Actually you should check which such codes are 'FNORD!!!' words in your local area.

In the U,K, it might be "Ltd." that is a fnord, U.S. fnord-words might include "Inc."

Some such codes are like "TM" and the copyright symbol, or impersonating a police officer or wearing military emblems of the local military whilst not ever having been in that military or of the rank indicated by the emblem and suchlike totems/fetishes/symbols.

I took to using Corp for intergalactic organisations engaged in intergalactic commerce partly because around here (Halifax, Nova Scotia) I don't think that is one of the FNORD words, nonetheless when I introduced the term on these forums I threw in a whole "explanation" of what it meant in the context I was using it.

-MarkM-

LOL. No, not "big" but "long".   

I consider big words to be things like floccinaucinihilipilification (the estimation of something that's valueless), or hippopotomonstrosesquipedalian (of or pertaining to long words)
Seriously though, there's nothing wrong with using the words as longs as you understand them. You pointed out in your other post:

And you'd be exactly right. Keep things as a "game" and you can't be harmed. As long as you deal solely in BTC, LTC, etc there are NO REGULATIONS for you to abide by because no government (that I know of) recognizes Bitcoins as a currency. So creating a "business" and "trading" all under BTC is 100% legal. When you start bringing fiat into the equations is when you bring governments along with it. That's the challenging part.
That said, you can still create your own company, INC, LTD, LLC, etc. It's all part of the "game" here, and as long as your company doesn't stem into the 'real world' you're all set.


Probably correct here as well, but there's nothing wrong with that until the tax man comes for their "company's" real-world profits


Serious question: How many legitimate businesses have actually turned out to be scams on GLBSE (or elsewhere)? I'm actually curious as to the answer for this. And by "legitimate business" I mean someone actually having a background, transparency, and products/services, but actually just ran away with your money. And I swear to god if one of you retards says "Pirate" I will hunt you down and slap you across the head for thinking his business was legit in the first place.  


Quite coincidentally, this happens to be something I've been looking into

Well, the German authorities seem to be of different opinion: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bafin-verbietet-gewerblichen-bitcoinhandel-117008
A first interpetation seems to classify BTC as a finance instrument, though not a currency, nevertheless all finance instruments require regulations. Ofcourse this is just a first statement made by the authorities and an actual legal case still has to proof this statement.

I was talking to someone who know about the laws around here (not US) and guess what: Setting up a bazaar (market) to trade some virtual  tokens (BTC is not a currency) is completely OK until legal currency is kept out of the equation.

You say BTC has value in fiat? So do all the stupid game cards that kids collect and trade in some countries. They do not call their collections Co's and themselves CEO and are not selling you a "share of ownership or debt (big bad words) in a INC, LLE, LTD etc". 

American based SEC has NOTHING to do with BTC. BTC is not a security. Only reason they can get upset is if  you keep calling your imaginary "what ever" a real company an keep telling to people,  how you are running a business blaa blaa blaa, dividends, IPO etc.  Then it can be considered as a scam and they (SEC, IRS, FSA, police etc) will get curious.

If you sell tokens for a imaginary team that operates under guidelines X and rewards it's members in those same game tokens (btc) no one cares wtf you do. Start using big words and you are in deep shit. As simple as that.

So. Nefario. Use some SQL magic, rename those moronic contracts to what they really are and open up your token bazaar.
You are running a online shop for trading game tokens to "teams" of imaginary teams of miners and cosmonauts.
 

Well gosh yes, most of this companies and such stuff is childish and silly.

The "Great Game" is in being a Sovereign Nation!

Playing some puny "company" trading on the stock exchange of one city or even on many stock exchanges in many cities is small fry compared to running the (e.g. Freeciv) Nation or one of the Nations that builds those cities and builds Markets, Banks and Stock Markets in them!

March armies around! Make Alliance, Peace, Ceasefire, Armistice, or War treaties with other Nations!

Play with "real money" in the sense meant by expressions such as "a few billions here, a few billions there, pretty soon it adds up to real money"!

Win wars and influence history!

-MarkM-

Maybe its time for bitcoin community to stop ego-tripping and stop using big words like securities, currency, corporation, IPO, bond, dividends, exchange etc.
Seriously.
None (most?) of the Corporations here are actually incorporated anywhere on this planet. Copy/pasting some bull shit legalese to a web page is not making your imaginary adventure a Co. Not in this planet.
None (most?) of the CEO's and what not have probably never ever met a RL CEO or owned a small business in the real world (RL).
Most of people here have 0 experience in investing in the real world and zero experience underwriting a IPO. Damn, mots IPO issuers do not even know what those 3 letters really mean and what are the consequences.

I know, most of you say that lets invent something new and do business the new way. Sad truth is that so far we have only seen scammers and thieves blowing the smoke up bitcoin community's collective ass.
If you do not know how business or markets works, you "new ways of doing stuff" are usually childish mistakes that the real world has all ready done, learned from those, fixed the problem and moved on.

How many of you have passed the S 7 exam? How did your S 63 go and for what state?
Do we have any CPA's around here? EU or USA background?

Wipe your tears, boys and girls. Truth is harsh.

Prison isnt so bad here. More like a holiday camp 

Ah, well gosh jee whiz then this is a super easy problem to fix isn't it? Create a tor hidden service like the silk road and you won't have anything to worry about. And I see you've "missed the entire point" on the definition of securities fraud.

The goal is to find a balance between legality and a safe haven for investors. Going the full hidden route and negating the majority of your problems will ultimately create a problem unto itself, whereas going the full legal route will hinder any community member looking to kickstart their own bitcoin business.

Way to miss the enitre point.  The discussion has NOTHING to do with scams and everything to do with the SEC (or your local equivelent) getting a court order, seizing everything you own and putting you in prison for the next 5 to 10 years for securities fraud.

Yeah there always seem to be places where players can sell in-game stuff for fiat, claiming in game's TOS that that is not allowed is maybe not good game design, a game designer I respect (R.I.P.) once told me never include a rule you cannot enforce.

Since you cannot prevent the entire internetz, Tor, i2p etc etc from having some place somewhere where players can sell game items you might as well toss that rule entirely and use blockchain based game-valuables so people can take their game-stuff home with them and even try to pass them off as "currencies" if they so desire.

Its amazing how the Hacker nation's currency "bitcoins" has taken off, big game-currencies fad in early 21st century on the planet known as Earth apparently.

-MarkM-

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1257909

I think the answer lies in the unit of account not being setup a real money in the first place so we need a "gamecoin"

Bitcoin was called a currency by its creator and you cant now say it isnt. Gamecoin is not a currency from  the get go

That may be, but you still can't use anything you can then withdraw again to sell for money - it's a one way street.

If you sell "litecoupons" for litecoins and people exchange them off-exchange it's not on you if you specify those coupons have no redeemable value, its an educational game and not real financial instruments.

If people deposit litecoin the only thing they can do is exchange them for litecoupons they arent allowed to go back to litecoins.

If someone sets up an outside site to trade litecoupons for litecoins again its not your fault.

tl;dr youd better make damn sure that litecoupon exchange site isnt tied to litecoinglobal in any way and they need to comply with AML , tax and all the other nasties - just as ogrr.com does for wow gold

Though I agree with that, Litecoins can still be exchanged for worldly currencies. From a legal perspective, it doesn't matter if litecoins are a billionth the value of a bitcoin. As long as you convert USD to LTC, park those LTC somewhere and make a return (or loss), it's considered investing.

On the other side of that, if we replace LTC with BTC in your sentence and modify it a bit we can make the same argument
"BTC is a totally different ballgame when it has 12x the value of a Dollar, is all speculative, and you can't really buy (much of) anything with it [compared to government backed currencies]."

With Litecoin Global it's a lot easier to establish it as a game/learning experience.  LTC is a totally different ballgame when it has 1/240th the value, is all speculative, and you can't really buy (much of) anything else with it.

As an educational site, I don't think it'd be wise to do away with the stocks/bonds/funds names.  That's a large part of the education side. 

So...the ideas that everyone has provided thus far are great for legitimacy in the eyes of the government. But isn't that what GLBSE was all about as well? Look what happened to him.

@Burnside - You're currently running the litecoin security exchange "underground" I'm assuming? Why can't we continue the same exchange plan under BTC instead of LTC? The only difference between LTC and BTC is popularity...

Guys, is there any security exchange that is currently meeting regulation standards for their government?
There's a reason we invest with bitcoins, litecoins, and the like...it's because we don't have to follow the same governmental rules and regulations that tie us down in the first place. We're free to do and create whatever we want, yet everyone is going back to the consensus that we need government regulation.

I understand that regulations help to hamper scams...I understand that regulations helps established businesses...but that's not why I wanted to work with Bitcoin security exchanges. I came here because I don't have to fight over a mountain of governmental paperwork to create a business. I don't have to work with my bank to figure out funding. I can get creative and build my own business and get funding on the exchanges for a tenth the amount of work and hassle required by the government. Establishing a bitcoin mining business is 100% possible with what we've got going on here...the moment any one of you is able to go into your local bank, say you want a $30,000 loan to purchase ASIC mining equipment, and receive that loan, tell me so I can make a visit to your bank.

Look at what was started by the various community members under GLBSE or MPEx. Do you think half of their ideas could have flourished if they had to spend the amount of time, effort, and money to work through regulations?

I agree that scams are a problem, and some are vastly more obvious than others. I must be a better way to locally regulate the securities without the intervention of SEC, FSA, etc.

Not just "a document". A notarised affadavit. Because a real notary might balk at notarising something they know is a lie, and because an affadavit is, as far as I know but I am not a lawyer, a sworn statement for court, thus, I am hoping, subject to being nailed for perjury if its not true.

Another thought is, how does lawyer/client privilege hold up in KYC cases if for example a lawyer operates an account on behalf of an undisclosed client?

-MarkM-