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Topic: Post your SegWit questions here - open discussion - big week for Bitcoin! - page 17. (Read 84845 times)

legendary
Activity: 3430
Merit: 3080
Ultimately, mining needs a decentralising shot in the arm. I doubt you're in favour of that ck, but hey Wink
Don't be so sure that you know what I want.

You're still business partners with someone who's so arrogant that he thinks miners should just directly control the protocol! Unless you've quit that self-contradictory relationship....

You implicitly support the things you explicitly defy. Bit of a mixed message, ck
-ck
legendary
Activity: 4088
Merit: 1631
Ruu \o/
Ultimately, mining needs a decentralising shot in the arm. I doubt you're in favour of that ck, but hey Wink
Don't be so sure that you know what I want.
legendary
Activity: 3430
Merit: 3080
UASF is, in my opinion, dangerous and stupid. Funnily enough it resembles the emergent consensus bullshit from BU in many ways...

Concurred.


Making user activation part of the protocol simply invites a different brigading attack instead, having a mechanism to do that invites that strategy.

If user directed action is needed, it's safer in the long-term realised as ad-hoc one-offs, and not turning that concept into a part of the system.

Ultimately, mining needs a decentralising shot in the arm. I doubt you're in favour of that ck, but hey Wink
-ck
legendary
Activity: 4088
Merit: 1631
Ruu \o/


Ok, some time has passed. So... what's Plan B?
Plan B is still plan A. Wait until the activation date is near or has passed.

What about UASF? It seems great idea because stubborness of chinese miners are impressive

I haven't seen any Core dev give the UASF proposal serious consideration. For the record, I think it's a horrible idea.

I believe that if Core were to attempt a UASF, it would effectively end their role as custodians of bitcoin code.


UASF is, in my opinion, dangerous and stupid. Funnily enough it resembles the emergent consensus bullshit from BU in many ways...
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 506
I hate to say that but 95% is unlikely to happen in the next a few months, If we never succeed to reach that percentage , what's going to happen and until when this SegWit signalling process should remain active ? (whatever It takes) ? because It literally could take forever.

SegWit voting will continue till block #491904. U may follow the progress @ http://segwit.co

I see, and If we fail to activate until then (I'm interested in knowing how much months/years this would take), another alternative will proposed for the miners ?
Still don't get it properly and need more time to learn about it, simply because "code, nodes, algorithm" are not my field.
Looks like we need more time, waiting for months or even years to complete this consensus matter.
Honestly, if bitcoin unlimited approved by majority, is it true that bitcoin will divide into 2 coins as ethereum did?
Are they, who support SegWit cannot accept it? Which cause this problem. I mean, whether SegWit or BU win this vote, another side should willing to accept and support it.
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 504


Ok, some time has passed. So... what's Plan B?
Plan B is still plan A. Wait until the activation date is near or has passed.

What about UASF? It seems great idea because stubborness of chinese miners are impressive

I haven't seen any Core dev give the UASF proposal serious consideration. For the record, I think it's a horrible idea.

I believe that if Core were to attempt a UASF, it would effectively end their role as custodians of bitcoin code.

sr. member
Activity: 277
Merit: 250


Ok, some time has passed. So... what's Plan B?
Plan B is still plan A. Wait until the activation date is near or has passed.

What about UASF? It seems great idea because stubborness of chinese miners are impressive
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1019
Ok, some time has passed. So... what's Plan B?
There is no plan B in decentralized world.
Anyone can do anything.
-ck
legendary
Activity: 4088
Merit: 1631
Ruu \o/


Ok, some time has passed. So... what's Plan B?
Plan B is still plan A. Wait until the activation date is near or has passed.
legendary
Activity: 1554
Merit: 1014
Make Bitcoin glow with ENIAC


Ok, some time has passed. So... what's Plan B?
legendary
Activity: 1554
Merit: 1014
Make Bitcoin glow with ENIAC
Then why don't you post it directly on the blog? What a better place to show to everyone that he is wrong?
You can archive it if you are afraid of a possible censorship from him, and show it then to everyone.
I did and it's sitting with "Your comment is awaiting moderation.". I cannot "archive it" because it won't even be displayed in the first place without his permission.

No one not directly involved cares about your ongoing battle with reddit, censorship, or developer in-fighting.  Take your excellent points to the miners and convince them to implement segwit so we can ALL watch Bitcoin grow and prosper.

Well, it's all the rage to by whining about fake news nowadays. But yes, please talk to the miners G.
sr. member
Activity: 314
Merit: 251
Then why don't you post it directly on the blog? What a better place to show to everyone that he is wrong?
You can archive it if you are afraid of a possible censorship from him, and show it then to everyone.
I did and it's sitting with "Your comment is awaiting moderation.". I cannot "archive it" because it won't even be displayed in the first place without his permission.

No one not directly involved cares about your ongoing battle with reddit, censorship, or developer in-fighting.  Take your excellent points to the miners and convince them to implement segwit so we can ALL watch Bitcoin grow and prosper.
staff
Activity: 4284
Merit: 8808
Then why don't you post it directly on the blog? What a better place to show to everyone that he is wrong?
You can archive it if you are afraid of a possible censorship from him, and show it then to everyone.
I did and it's sitting with "Your comment is awaiting moderation.". I cannot "archive it" because it won't even be displayed in the first place without his permission.
staff
Activity: 4270
Merit: 1209
I support freedom of choice
Finally, the untrue claims in this blog post are being plastered all over rBTC but due to actions by that subreddit's moderators I am unable to post a counterargument-- not just on rbtc-- but anywhere on Reddit.  Yet they happily scream about far less limiting actions a censorship.
Then why don't you post it directly on the blog? What a better place to show to everyone that he is wrong?
You can archive it if you are afraid of a possible censorship from him, and show it then to everyone.
full member
Activity: 204
Merit: 100
If segwit and LN activated will there be any need to pay high fees like now when the unconfirmed transactions count is above 70k we usually need to include a higher fee, but can we pay low fees for our legitimate daily transactions?
staff
Activity: 4284
Merit: 8808

Wow. Another remarkably dishonest article from the authors of Bitcoin Unlimited. (Archive link)

Quote
because only some coins can

Making your transactions non-malleable is a thing you always opt-into because some forms of mallability are an intentional and useful feature.  With a segwit using wallet you get non-malleability by default, you can choose to not have it by using things like sighash flags. Obviously if you don't use a segwit wallet you don't get the segwit benefit. There is no fungiblity interaction here-- any coin can be sent to a segwit wallet and any coins in a segwit wallet can be sent to any other wallet, so that claim is simply untrue.

Quote
SegWit absolutely fails to solve anything related to quadratic hashing.
Again, a complete untruth. Segwit makes transaction hashing strictly linear in the size of the transaction. There is no quadratic component at all, and the hashing CPU time for all transactions with multiple inputs is significantly reduced. Because segwit is backward compatible it doesn't change older transactions (and couldn't, without risking confiscating funds) but that is okay because segwit doesn't increase the capacity for older transactions.

Quote
It adds a new attack vector,
Dishonest miners being able to make malicious blocks that bloat the system isn't a new attack, but segwit makes the attack better by reducing the much more serious UTXO bloat attack vector.

I think this point is especially dishonest coming from a BU developer, given that their whole security model is based on a strong assumption that the aggregate behavior of miners is honest.  It's like a guy who sells houses without doorlocks on the basis that people are honest complaining that someone was lowering their security replacing their deadbolt with a combination fingerprint scanner + key lock where the key was somewhat easier to copy.

Quote
LN strongly incentivize centralization

The description given there actually argues the opposite. The funds in channels are required based on the number of channels.  Lightning designs today are setup to only build channels as a product of payments you're already making. Using lightning in a "hub like" way requires extra transactions that you never would have made normally.   The big advance of lightning over the prior payment channels proposals is specifically that it doesn't need hubs.

Recently BU's "chief scientist" was making exactly the opposite argument based on the same facts: He argued that lightning did not improve scalablity because there would need to be as many channels as users and so when users went up the channel count would go up.

Quote
full blocks equals stealing

This isn't true-- blocks are _always_ effectively full and any system where they aren't is either irrelevant or subject to censorship. Bitcoin's incentives depend on full blocks, as well.. Lightning works fine in the presence of full blocks, and moreover lightning is largely orthogonal to segwit.

Quote
Schnorr cannot deliver any extra capacity

This is simply untrue.  Our construction for schnorr aggregation on top of segwit yields over 24% additional capacity in the limit with two outputs and infinitely many inputs, this number is nearly achieved with realistic numbers of inputs like 10 (which achieves a 24.6% capacity increase).  

So we have each and every point raised in this blog post are untrue, many absurdly so.

Finally, the untrue claims in this blog post are being plastered all over rBTC but due to actions by that subreddit's moderators I am unable to post a counterargument-- not just on rbtc-- but anywhere on Reddit.  Yet they happily scream about far less limiting actions a censorship.
staff
Activity: 4270
Merit: 1209
I support freedom of choice
newbie
Activity: 18
Merit: 1
What I don't understand is that if soft-forks are backward compatible why would other miners reject it? Doesn't backward compatibility mean that new blocks are seen as valid by old clients? And if you wait everyone to update what is the benefit for soft-fork? Is there a con of Hard-Fork if it has 95% support?
The way that the soft forks work is that it makes something previously valid invalid. This means that it is backwards compatible, old nodes won't reject stuff made with the new rules. However, that also means that something invalid under the new rules can still be valid under the old rules. If miners and nodes are still running nodes with the old rules, then they will accept those transactions and blocks as valid, but not the new nodes. This can cause a split in the network and potentially a blockchain fork, and just be a major pain to resolve.

The point of the 95% signalling is so that everyone knows that it is safe to use the new rules because the miners are promising that they will use the new rules when creating blocks. It ensures that nearly all miners will enforce the new rules which means that the likelihood for a chain split is much much lower.

I don't get technical details but this makes sense. https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2017-February/013643.html
staff
Activity: 3500
Merit: 6152
I hate to say that but 95% is unlikely to happen in the next a few months, If we never succeed to reach that percentage , what's going to happen and until when this SegWit signalling process should remain active ? (whatever It takes) ? because It literally could take forever.

SegWit voting will continue till block #491904. U may follow the progress @ http://segwit.co

I see, and If we fail to activate until then (I'm interested in knowing how much months/years this would take), another alternative will proposed for the miners ?
legendary
Activity: 1662
Merit: 1050
I hate to say that but 95% is unlikely to happen in the next a few months, If we never succeed to reach that percentage , what's going to happen and until when this SegWit signalling process should remain active ? (whatever It takes) ? because It literally could take forever.

SegWit voting will continue till block #491904. U may follow the progress @ http://segwit.co
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