Pages:
Author

Topic: Post your SegWit questions here - open discussion - big week for Bitcoin! - page 13. (Read 84845 times)

legendary
Activity: 1554
Merit: 1014
Make Bitcoin glow with ENIAC
Is there any comprehensive paper/analysis written on the implications of SegWit on Bitcoins incentive structure?
Here's an analysis by Andreas Antonopoulos about how segwit affects incentive to run full nodes: https://segwit.org/segregated-witness-and-aligning-economic-incentives-with-resource-costs-7d987b135c00.

Ok, I see I should have been more specific. Part of the deal with SegWIt is that it more easily allows for second layer solutions. I don't see the effect of these being discussed in Antonopolous' analysis.
staff
Activity: 3458
Merit: 6793
Just writing some code
Is there any comprehensive paper/analysis written on the implications of SegWit on Bitcoins incentive structure?
Here's an analysis by Andreas Antonopoulos about how segwit affects incentive to run full nodes: https://segwit.org/segregated-witness-and-aligning-economic-incentives-with-resource-costs-7d987b135c00.

correct me were am wrong if segwit removes the signatures from the data that is hashed to become the transaction id (witness data)

does it mean we shall no longer be able to sign messages when its activated  Huh
Signing messages has nothing to do with transactions. You can still sign messages when segwit is activated.

clonk! clonk! clonk!

Is this still on?

Where did everybody go?
Dude, you posted your question today, cool it. Not everyone who can comment on this will be online in the 4 hours between when you made your post and now.
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 521
correct me were am wrong if segwit removes the signatures from the data that is hashed to become the transaction id (witness data)

does it mean we shall no longer be able to sign messages when its activated  Huh
legendary
Activity: 1554
Merit: 1014
Make Bitcoin glow with ENIAC

Is there any comprehensive paper/analysis written on the implications of SegWit on Bitcoins incentive structure?
hero member
Activity: 763
Merit: 500
... so from what i understand ...
yes, from a high point of view it's not hard to understand. a softfork introduces tighter rules, which make some commands that are now always true not always true in the future. that's why it's backwards compatible, because older clients will still accept the newer stuff. a hardfork truly changes a rule, which makes it no longer backwards compatible and there will be instances of a test for a rule, which is true right now will no longer be true with BU.
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1027
Dump it!!!
Was reading about Segwit here so from what i understand a hardfork is basically making bitcoin more like an alt and a softfork will just enhance transaction speeds and not necessary changing existing code...as the 'bitcoin core' camp intends to just make transactions smaller which still keeps it as bitcoin unlike bitcoin unlimited which changes the chemistry of bitcoin to an altcoin...If it sounds as simple as that why is this still debatable??? BU is an alt nothing more....who are the real stake holders to implement these changes
legendary
Activity: 1554
Merit: 1014
Make Bitcoin glow with ENIAC

sry guyz, SN says no.

back to the drawing board.
hero member
Activity: 1063
Merit: 502
RIP: S5, A faithful device long time
How SegWit signaling works?  Huh
copper member
Activity: 2996
Merit: 2374
after segwit is activated, is it possible to revert the change and soft fork back to without segwit? or will the technical debt be too high to do that too?
Reverting a soft fork requires a hard fork. It has nothing to do with technical debt.
It won't be able to revert SW even with a hard fork. Doing so would allow the miners to steal all btc in SW unspent outputs.
staff
Activity: 3458
Merit: 6793
Just writing some code
after segwit is activated, is it possible to revert the change and soft fork back to without segwit? or will the technical debt be too high to do that too?
Reverting a soft fork requires a hard fork. It has nothing to do with technical debt.
sr. member
Activity: 337
Merit: 250
after segwit is activated, is it possible to revert the change and soft fork back to without segwit? or will the technical debt be too high to do that too?
hv_
legendary
Activity: 2548
Merit: 1055
Clean Code and Scale
It's another vain attempt to communicate to the core devs to increase the effing blocksize. Nobody seems to be listening.

Personally I'm sick of the cult-like core devotees who claim to be intelligent and technically knowledgeable.
Personally I'm sick of people not being willing to understand or accept that an allegedly 'simple' blocksize increase exposes the network to a DoS risk. Yes it was thought a plain blocksize increase would be fine in the past; now we know better. Does that mean we should plough on regardless, knowing it's flawed?

And now Core's inability to properly manage and communicate their scaling solution is leading us towards a much more dangerous HF. A damaging contentious HF now will primarily be Core's failure, not anyone else's victory. Not exactly stellar risk management.

It is unfortunate that everything had to be bundled together like this. Especially when the contention in the BTC community became apparent. I understand there are technical reasons for doing so, but that's a lot of eggs in one basket.

And we can always find risks for any solutions any changes any actions, even for no action.
So best way is to try as many as possible and find back to the initial experiment thinking of Satoshi.
Shrink the code to protocol level, clean it down to minimal essential params and diversify code bases. Best will win but only if free use is possible to find out about what works and what not.
legendary
Activity: 1554
Merit: 1014
Make Bitcoin glow with ENIAC
It's another vain attempt to communicate to the core devs to increase the effing blocksize. Nobody seems to be listening.

Personally I'm sick of the cult-like core devotees who claim to be intelligent and technically knowledgeable.
Personally I'm sick of people not being willing to understand or accept that an allegedly 'simple' blocksize increase exposes the network to a DoS risk. Yes it was thought a plain blocksize increase would be fine in the past; now we know better. Does that mean we should plough on regardless, knowing it's flawed?

And now Core's inability to properly manage and communicate their scaling solution is leading us towards a much more dangerous HF. A damaging contentious HF now will primarily be Core's failure, not anyone else's victory. Not exactly stellar risk management.

It is unfortunate that everything had to be bundled together like this. Especially when the contention in the BTC community became apparent. I understand there are technical reasons for doing so, but that's a lot of eggs in one basket.
X7
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1009
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone
at this point just drop the 2mb block increase on segwit and just get malleability fixed for lightning.


Interesting what is happening on the LTC chain - and how they are handling the situation.

This is a good test pilot for bitcoin with 0 risk
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 250
at this point just drop the 2mb block increase on segwit and just get malleability fixed for lightning.
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 504
It's another vain attempt to communicate to the core devs to increase the effing blocksize. Nobody seems to be listening.

Personally I'm sick of the cult-like core devotees who claim to be intelligent and technically knowledgeable.
Personally I'm sick of people not being willing to understand or accept that an allegedly 'simple' blocksize increase exposes the network to a DoS risk. Yes it was thought a plain blocksize increase would be fine in the past; now we know better. Does that mean we should plough on regardless, knowing it's flawed?

Are you ignoring the fact that the 1MB blocksize limit exposes the network to a DoS risk AND alienates the user base? Fees and confirmation times rose dramatically over the past 3 months due to the limit. User flight to altcoins is massive, and cannot simply be waved away.

Who is "plowing on regardless"? Unlimited sounds scary, but likely won't win the fork war. Segwit is complicated, and not a proven technology at all.

Keep your eye on Litecoin's Segwit adoption. If we're lucky, Litecoin will activate Segwit and unmask all of those subtle bugs that nobody found during testing... let's talk in 6 months...

legendary
Activity: 3948
Merit: 11416
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
It's another vain attempt to communicate to the core devs to increase the effing blocksize. Nobody seems to be listening.

Personally I'm sick of the cult-like core devotees who claim to be intelligent and technically knowledgeable.
Personally I'm sick of people not being willing to understand or accept that an allegedly 'simple' blocksize increase exposes the network to a DoS risk. Yes it was thought a plain blocksize increase would be fine in the past; now we know better. Does that mean we should plough on regardless, knowing it's flawed?


I would surmise that even a large majority of the big blockers realize that they are just spouting off bullshit - and I think that there has been a considerable amount of evidence that a lot of them are merely paid banking shills.

So, yeah, it all sounds fine and dandy to argue for an increase in the blocksize limit, but the smarter big blockers likely don't even believe their own bullshit.  

We also know that a large number of these big blockers have been propagating this big blocker nonsense for nearly two years and even a little bit before the current bullrun from the lower $200s to $1350 (correction down to $891) and now floating in the $1,145 territory.

Surely through the past couple of years big blocker nonsense has been able to contribute to causing some loss of confidence in bitcoin from some folks which likely exacerbates BTC price corrections and causes less upwards BTC price pressures, yet the ongoing upwards price pressures does tend to demonstrate that a lot of the "smart" money in bitcoin realizes that these various big blocker saboteurs are not too likely to cause any kind of significant and meaningful interference to the main trend and adoption of bitcoin as the best of the cryptos and the most secure, solid and immutable of the cryptos (which immutability is a feature and not a bug in bitcoin).

Accordingly, even if we do not ultimately achieve getting seg wit (which I kind of doubt), bitcoin is still going to continue to have a considerable amount of value because of its inability to be changed easily - even if it were to stay in a kind of current 1mb forever status which is also not too likely of a scenario because it seems quite likely that various powers that be in core including the realization of the superiority of the seg wit solution within the larger bitcoin community is going to cause some kind of ways to slip aspects of seg wit into the protocol, even if it ends up being some combination of support that shows consensus coming from various other aspects of the bitcoin community outside of the miners - yet without necessarily only seeking 95% of the miners..

Maybe some of those minority miners are going to have to direct their engergies (and their mining power, if that is what they got to offer) somewhere else.  Ultimately, bitcoin should not be held hostage by mining power, and there is quite a lot of mining power in existence, so if several of the miners direct their resources somewhere else under the belief that they can be more profitable ways and at other coins, for example, then maybe that would also be a decent solution..  So, yeah, currently, there may be some miners, too, who are attempting to play a card to attempt to show that they have a better hand than they actually have (that is called bluffing, unless they actually play the card, which might be the better outcome since quite few folks already realize that they are exaggerating what cards that they actually have to play).
-ck
legendary
Activity: 4088
Merit: 1631
Ruu \o/
It's another vain attempt to communicate to the core devs to increase the effing blocksize. Nobody seems to be listening.

Personally I'm sick of the cult-like core devotees who claim to be intelligent and technically knowledgeable.
Personally I'm sick of people not being willing to understand or accept that an allegedly 'simple' blocksize increase exposes the network to a DoS risk. Yes it was thought a plain blocksize increase would be fine in the past; now we know better. Does that mean we should plough on regardless, knowing it's flawed?
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 504
Most of us are sick of the attacks on the blockchain from BU, classic, etc..
We want to improve bitcoin and move on, but these constant attacks makes it impossible


You're saying that "attacks" are blocking Segwit adoption? Ridiculous.

Classic did nothing, and nobody even broke a sweat. Did you ever wonder why Unlimited keeps gaining support? It's another vain attempt to communicate to the core devs to increase the effing blocksize. Nobody seems to be listening.

Personally I'm sick of the cult-like core devotees who claim to be intelligent and technically knowledgeable.
hero member
Activity: 555
Merit: 507
Why continue to be a part of a project that's being prevented from progressing? The devs are going to run out of non-fork improvements and maintenance coding (for the most part). I'm seriously considering looking at why I'm still involved at all.

STAHP with the drama Carlton, you're not going anywhere. You'll make the last post on this forum before it shuts down 10+ years from now, mark my words.

Besides, last time I checked, you were blacklisting non-Segwit nodes with your own little CarltonBanksCoin fork, what happened to that epic thread? LOL


It's not just Carlton.
Most of us are sick of the attacks on the blockchain from BU, classic, etc..
We want to improve bitcoin and move on, but these constant attacks makes it impossible
Pages:
Jump to: