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Topic: Post your SegWit questions here - open discussion - big week for Bitcoin! - page 7. (Read 84845 times)

legendary
Activity: 3948
Merit: 11416
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
May I ask why it can't be activated o working ?
Segwit can't work until it is activated. Segwit is currently not activated, it is only locked in. This means that it will become active after a certain block height, 481824. It is currently not past that block height.


There is about one more week remaining before segwit goes active.  Does anyone anticipate anything dramatic to occur or to witness any dramatic changes? 

I was thinking that spam attacks might go up after segwit goes active to create the impression that segwit is not helping anything, but I could be too pessimistic in my current tentative expectations.
staff
Activity: 3458
Merit: 6793
Just writing some code
May I ask why it can't be activated o working ?
Segwit can't work until it is activated. Segwit is currently not activated, it is only locked in. This means that it will become active after a certain block height, 481824. It is currently not past that block height.
full member
Activity: 175
Merit: 100
But is Segwit really working now ? I see the transactions are high fees, many transactions stuck without confirmation...
It hasn't been activated yet so no, it's not working, because it can't be.

May I ask why it can't be activated o working ?
-ck
legendary
Activity: 4088
Merit: 1631
Ruu \o/
But is Segwit really working now ? I see the transactions are high fees, many transactions stuck without confirmation...
It hasn't been activated yet so no, it's not working, because it can't be.
sr. member
Activity: 1192
Merit: 260
Tryig to survive in this harsh world
I am not a technical person. So I am still confused about SegWit. I have still no clue what actually it is. The only thing I know that it helped the BTC value rise. Can anyone describe easily what SegWit  actually is?
The very short version of the story is this:
  • When people send their coins to someone else, that's a "transaction".
  • They "sign" the transaction to prove to the network that they have the right to spend the coins.
  • Before SegWit, transactions and signatures were sent out as part of the same document.
  • After SegWit, they're sent out separately - like signing the back of a piece of paper instead of the front.

Why does this matter? It turns out it's useful for letting the Bitcoin network process more transactions per second. Right now there's a limit on how many transactions can be processed per second, because everyone has to double-check whether the transactions are 100% correct, and we want to make sure they can keep up.

It turns out, moving the signature out of the transaction itself helps that in two ways:

1) Partial Verification
Part of what makes double-checking transactions a slow process is that they have to be sent to you before you can start to check them. Moving the signatures means that Alice can check the transactions, and then start forwarding them on to Bob right away, even before she's had a chance to check the signatures (she can tell Bob later should the signatures turn out to be bogus). This means less latency in passing along transactions - they travel faster - and so a block can include about half again as many transactions as used to fit inside.

2) "Fixing Malleability"
The way Bitcoin has worked up to now, since the signature is part of the transaction, changing the signature changes the transaction's identity. Even though all the same coins are being spent in the same way, it's a "different" transaction than before. And it turns out anyone can "smudge" a signature slightly, such that it's still valid, but it's "changed" enough to trigger this situation.

This made it harder to write more complicated chains of transactions - where the transactions depend on each other.

One example of these "complicated transactions" is a "payment channel". The idea here is that if Alice and Bob send coins back and forth a lot, they can compress all of their sending back and forth into two transactions - one to "open" the channel, and one to "close" it and settle up. This saves everyone the hassle of double-checking all of Alice and Bob's payments individually; they can just check that the settling-up at the end was valid. (If you've heard the phrase "lightning network", it's basically just a much more advanced version of this same idea.)

With signatures stored inside their transactions, this was really hard to set up correctly, because if the transaction that "opens" the channel gets its signature smudged, the "settling-up" can't find that transaction anymore, so the coins will be left in limbo.

But with SegWit, the signatures aren't inside the transactions. So even if the signatures get smudged, the "settling-up" transaction can still find the "open" transaction, and the technique works.


Together, in theory, (1) and (2) can significantly increase the amount of Bitcoin transactions that can be sent per second. And that means transaction fees go down, and Bitcoin gets cheaper to use. And at the same time, (2) increases the number of interesting things you can do with your bitcoins.

Since both of those make Bitcoin more valuable, the price goes up. ^_^

But is Segwit really working now ? I see the transactions are high fees, many transactions stuck without confirmation...
sr. member
Activity: 263
Merit: 250
I like helping people
Since both of those make Bitcoin more valuable, the price goes up. ^_^

Thanks for the perspective, to help make sense of the madness.
legendary
Activity: 960
Merit: 1028
Spurn wild goose chases. Seek that which endures.
I am not a technical person. So I am still confused about SegWit. I have still no clue what actually it is. The only thing I know that it helped the BTC value rise. Can anyone describe easily what SegWit  actually is?
The very short version of the story is this:
  • When people send their coins to someone else, that's a "transaction".
  • They "sign" the transaction to prove to the network that they have the right to spend the coins.
  • Before SegWit, transactions and signatures were sent out as part of the same document.
  • After SegWit, they're sent out separately - like signing the back of a piece of paper instead of the front.

Why does this matter? It turns out it's useful for letting the Bitcoin network process more transactions per second. Right now there's a limit on how many transactions can be processed per second, because everyone has to double-check whether the transactions are 100% correct, and we want to make sure they can keep up.

It turns out, moving the signature out of the transaction itself helps that in two ways:

1) Partial Verification
Part of what makes double-checking transactions a slow process is that they have to be sent to you before you can start to check them. Moving the signatures means that Alice can check the transactions, and then start forwarding them on to Bob right away, even before she's had a chance to check the signatures (she can tell Bob later should the signatures turn out to be bogus). This means less latency in passing along transactions - they travel faster - and so a block can include about half again as many transactions as used to fit inside.

2) "Fixing Malleability"
The way Bitcoin has worked up to now, since the signature is part of the transaction, changing the signature changes the transaction's identity. Even though all the same coins are being spent in the same way, it's a "different" transaction than before. And it turns out anyone can "smudge" a signature slightly, such that it's still valid, but it's "changed" enough to trigger this situation.

This made it harder to write more complicated chains of transactions - where the transactions depend on each other.

One example of these "complicated transactions" is a "payment channel". The idea here is that if Alice and Bob send coins back and forth a lot, they can compress all of their sending back and forth into two transactions - one to "open" the channel, and one to "close" it and settle up. This saves everyone the hassle of double-checking all of Alice and Bob's payments individually; they can just check that the settling-up at the end was valid. (If you've heard the phrase "lightning network", it's basically just a much more advanced version of this same idea.)

With signatures stored inside their transactions, this was really hard to set up correctly, because if the transaction that "opens" the channel gets its signature smudged, the "settling-up" can't find that transaction anymore, so the coins will be left in limbo.

But with SegWit, the signatures aren't inside the transactions. So even if the signatures get smudged, the "settling-up" transaction can still find the "open" transaction, and the technique works.


Together, in theory, (1) and (2) can significantly increase the amount of Bitcoin transactions that can be sent per second. And that means transaction fees go down, and Bitcoin gets cheaper to use. And at the same time, (2) increases the number of interesting things you can do with your bitcoins.

Since both of those make Bitcoin more valuable, the price goes up. ^_^
hv_
legendary
Activity: 2548
Merit: 1055
Clean Code and Scale
Have you any idea how easy it is to re-provision the existing BTC infrastructure for BCC?  Let's put it this way, it's probably 100 times easier to migrate to BCC than it is to code up Segwit transaction support in every exchange site, vendor app, etc. And remember that Segwit software utility support is still below 50%...

If the SHTF with Segwit2x vs. Segwit, things can start happening fast again, like they did in late July...

The fact is bitcoin cash doesn't work until today, it just stuck somewhere and barely did not move up in few days.
People won't believe in bitcoin cash as they are believe in bitcoin, simply because it's natures law of be the first digital currency and I consider bitcoin is better than bitcoin cash.

If another hard fork or chain split will happen because of segwit2x, people will chose bitcoin over segwit2x.
Segwit software will go in Live on August 21st, hopefully it could be 100% works.

Yeah. Thats how we humans act. It takes a little while and we get used to, no matter if sth better comes up.
It took about 8 years to get used to Bitcoin. So why use Bitcoin Cash?

I predict same for SW, at least for some 'users' and many miners...
hero member
Activity: 1036
Merit: 514
Have you any idea how easy it is to re-provision the existing BTC infrastructure for BCC?  Let's put it this way, it's probably 100 times easier to migrate to BCC than it is to code up Segwit transaction support in every exchange site, vendor app, etc. And remember that Segwit software utility support is still below 50%...

If the SHTF with Segwit2x vs. Segwit, things can start happening fast again, like they did in late July...

The fact is bitcoin cash doesn't work until today, it just stuck somewhere and barely did not move up in few days.
People won't believe in bitcoin cash as they are believe in bitcoin, simply because it's natures law of be the first digital currency and I consider bitcoin is better than bitcoin cash.

If another hard fork or chain split will happen because of segwit2x, people will chose bitcoin over segwit2x.
Segwit software will go in Live on August 21st, hopefully it could be 100% works.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1218
Change is in your hands
I don't understand the technical side of segwitx2 and UASF, can you guys link me to a quality article, explaining the difference between two? Or can you tell me the differences in layman's terms, is it beneficial? And what is the difference between segwitx2 and segwit? I know that segwit was about taking out the "junk" from transaction, but what is different in segwitx2? Please don't mind these noobish questions, I have been out of touch from the technical side of bitcoin from a long period. Thanks.
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 504
They really are THAT stupid. Don't they know that they'll just drive more users to BCC/BCH/Bitcoin Cash?

I still believe that segwit2x is a bait to activate segwit and core won't support 2Mb hard fork obviously, and we don't know yet, how many miners will support this hard fork or how long it could fulfill the threshold. Segwit2x or 2Mb hard fork has been scheduled to take place in November but Bitcoin Core 0.15.0 will automatically disconnect nodes running Bitcoin ABC and the segwit fork. So, the answer is, hard fork unlikely to happen. Or, maybe I am wrong about it, let's see what will happen in November.

I agree. The miners were smarter this time however - they don't say it, but the implicit threat of Bitcoin Cash is that if the 2x hard fork is not honored, the miners will switch to the Bitcoin Cash chain. If 60% of hashpower switched to mining Bitcoin Cash overnight (for example), it would essentially be the end of Core's bitcoin - the lingering difficulty would cause blocks to be mined every 12 hours. This would cause a situation where Core Bitcoin is marginally useful and worth far less than its current inflated value...

Honestly, I don't think miners or majority hashrate will switch to bitcoin cash, bitcoin segwit or segwit2x are better than bcash according to the nodes and business acceptance. Bcash will rise, maybe in one or two months later but the situation will be the same, people will sell bcash to convert into bitcoin, there will always one bitcoin, not 2 or 3.

Have you any idea how easy it is to re-provision the existing BTC infrastructure for BCC?  Let's put it this way, it's probably 100 times easier to migrate to BCC than it is to code up Segwit transaction support in every exchange site, vendor app, etc. And remember that Segwit software utility support is still below 50%...

If the SHTF with Segwit2x vs. Segwit, things can start happening fast again, like they did in late July...
sr. member
Activity: 1162
Merit: 260
I am not a technical person. So I am still confused about SegWit. I have still no clue what actually it is. The only thing I know that it helped the BTC value rise. Can anyone describe easily what SegWit  actually is?
hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 523
They really are THAT stupid. Don't they know that they'll just drive more users to BCC/BCH/Bitcoin Cash?

I still believe that segwit2x is a bait to activate segwit and core won't support 2Mb hard fork obviously, and we don't know yet, how many miners will support this hard fork or how long it could fulfill the threshold. Segwit2x or 2Mb hard fork has been scheduled to take place in November but Bitcoin Core 0.15.0 will automatically disconnect nodes running Bitcoin ABC and the segwit fork. So, the answer is, hard fork unlikely to happen. Or, maybe I am wrong about it, let's see what will happen in November.

I agree. The miners were smarter this time however - they don't say it, but the implicit threat of Bitcoin Cash is that if the 2x hard fork is not honored, the miners will switch to the Bitcoin Cash chain. If 60% of hashpower switched to mining Bitcoin Cash overnight (for example), it would essentially be the end of Core's bitcoin - the lingering difficulty would cause blocks to be mined every 12 hours. This would cause a situation where Core Bitcoin is marginally useful and worth far less than its current inflated value...

Honestly, I don't think miners or majority hashrate will switch to bitcoin cash, bitcoin segwit or segwit2x are better than bcash according to the nodes and business acceptance. Bcash will rise, maybe in one or two months later but the situation will be the same, people will sell bcash to convert into bitcoin, there will always one bitcoin, not 2 or 3.
legendary
Activity: 3948
Merit: 11416
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
Will bitcoincore accept segwit 2x or will this cause another hard fork later?

We will probably see another fork and bitcoin core 0.15.0 won't support SegWit2x, It will actually disconnect nodes running that proposal from what I read on Reddit.

Yeah. WTF

https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10982

They really are THAT stupid. Don't they know that they'll just drive more users to BCC/BCH/Bitcoin Cash?

I still believe that segwit2x is a bait to activate segwit and core won't support 2Mb hard fork obviously, and we don't know yet, how many miners will support this hard fork or how long it could fulfill the threshold. Segwit2x or 2Mb hard fork has been scheduled to take place in November but Bitcoin Core 0.15.0 will automatically disconnect nodes running Bitcoin ABC and the segwit fork. So, the answer is, hard fork unlikely to happen. Or, maybe I am wrong about it, let's see what will happen in November.


I think that there is a whole hell-of-a lot less justification for the 2x part of segwit2x, after the lunatic renagade hardforkers decided to fork and to attempt to undermine bitcoin - so whether they are all part of the same 2x team or not - they essentially undermined and sabatoged the 2x portion of the segwit2x deal by engaging in unilateral premature forking.. those forkers!!!!  

So fuck the 2x part.  Let's stick with 2x, and if they want to fork again for another dumb-ass and lame coin, then so be it.  Bitcoin will move on and be stronger for not jumping to rash conclusions, sticking with the better technological choices, and not giving into terrororists and hostage takers. If down the road, 2 years or more, there is some kind of actual technical justification for the 2x portion of segwit2x, then that can be addressed down the road when there is an actual justification for such measures..,. don't be wasting time adding 2x features, when they seem to be absolutely unneeded and the 2mb limit increase seems blikely to cause more problems and issues than it would actually solve... so fuck the forkers and fuck the big blockers, their arguments are neither factually nor logically persuasive.  
hv_
legendary
Activity: 2548
Merit: 1055
Clean Code and Scale
I have been in bitcoin for years and i have never been more excited to see a feature added than segwit, because it will allow for a lot of other things. But something that keeps worrying me is, I have heard quite a lot of people talking about a potential vulnerability that could be exploited by malicious miners, that could steal the money held in segwit format addresses creating a "DAO type" event, as in all these addresses could become a nice price pot for attacker.

I don't know the details but I would like some input on this, if you need more info I will try to find it, I don't remember right now who wrote this, but it had something to do with a DAO style disaster with segwit.

I understand most of that 'feature' and deployment hype. But a feature (for one group) could be a anti-feature or harm for the other. There is always a trade off and no free lunch.

And we can all see, one group see rather the harm. So what should we (Coders) do i.o. to reach Nakamoto Consensus?

Force?


What is good practice to solve stalling?
hero member
Activity: 672
Merit: 503
I have been in bitcoin for years and i have never been more excited to see a feature added than segwit, because it will allow for a lot of other things. But something that keeps worrying me is, I have heard quite a lot of people talking about a potential vulnerability that could be exploited by malicious miners, that could steal the money held in segwit format addresses creating a "DAO type" event, as in all these addresses could become a nice price pot for attacker.

I don't know the details but I would like some input on this, if you need more info I will try to find it, I don't remember right now who wrote this, but it had something to do with a DAO style disaster with segwit.
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 504
Will bitcoincore accept segwit 2x or will this cause another hard fork later?

We will probably see another fork and bitcoin core 0.15.0 won't support SegWit2x, It will actually disconnect nodes running that proposal from what I read on Reddit.

Yeah. WTF

https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10982

They really are THAT stupid. Don't they know that they'll just drive more users to BCC/BCH/Bitcoin Cash?

I still believe that segwit2x is a bait to activate segwit and core won't support 2Mb hard fork obviously, and we don't know yet, how many miners will support this hard fork or how long it could fulfill the threshold. Segwit2x or 2Mb hard fork has been scheduled to take place in November but Bitcoin Core 0.15.0 will automatically disconnect nodes running Bitcoin ABC and the segwit fork. So, the answer is, hard fork unlikely to happen. Or, maybe I am wrong about it, let's see what will happen in November.

I agree. The miners were smarter this time however - they don't say it, but the implicit threat of Bitcoin Cash is that if the 2x hard fork is not honored, the miners will switch to the Bitcoin Cash chain. If 60% of hashpower switched to mining Bitcoin Cash overnight (for example), it would essentially be the end of Core's bitcoin - the lingering difficulty would cause blocks to be mined every 12 hours. This would cause a situation where Core Bitcoin is marginally useful and worth far less than its current inflated value...
hero member
Activity: 777
Merit: 777
Altbone inc.Burial service for altcoins
Bitcoin ABC has no plans to activate Segregated Witness whatsoever.I think if Segwit2x follows through with the 2x part there will be no further split but if not there will be on account of BCC/BCH not ever activating segwit.
hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 523
Will bitcoincore accept segwit 2x or will this cause another hard fork later?

We will probably see another fork and bitcoin core 0.15.0 won't support SegWit2x, It will actually disconnect nodes running that proposal from what I read on Reddit.

Yeah. WTF

https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10982

They really are THAT stupid. Don't they know that they'll just drive more users to BCC/BCH/Bitcoin Cash?

I still believe that segwit2x is a bait to activate segwit and core won't support 2Mb hard fork obviously, and we don't know yet, how many miners will support this hard fork or how long it could fulfill the threshold. Segwit2x or 2Mb hard fork has been scheduled to take place in November but Bitcoin Core 0.15.0 will automatically disconnect nodes running Bitcoin ABC and the segwit fork. So, the answer is, hard fork unlikely to happen. Or, maybe I am wrong about it, let's see what will happen in November.
hv_
legendary
Activity: 2548
Merit: 1055
Clean Code and Scale
Will bitcoincore accept segwit 2x or will this cause another hard fork later?

We will probably see another fork and bitcoin core 0.15.0 won't support SegWit2x, It will actually disconnect nodes running that proposal from what I read on Reddit.

Yeah. WTF

https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10982

They really are THAT stupid. Don't they know that they'll just drive more users to BCC/BCH/Bitcoin Cash?

Divide&Control-Maximalists, rather than Bitcoin-Maximalists ? What is the signal to the miners or even all alt-coiners ?
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