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Topic: Post your SegWit questions here - open discussion - big week for Bitcoin! - page 10. (Read 84845 times)

legendary
Activity: 3948
Merit: 11416
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"

The greatest danger now is not what solution actually ends up being chosen, it is actually the motivations behind those who propose that solution. This is true not only for core, but all proposed solutions.

You come off as a bit pie in the sky with your fairly lengthy attempt at a justification of bitcoin based on some supposed vision of satoshi 8 years ago.

The fact of the matter is that seg wit has already been chosen and has been in the works for a couple of years and appears to be in the final stages of locking in then soon thereafter activation, so your statement "what solution actually ends up being chosen" is either out of touch with actual facts and/r is striving to paint bitcoin to be something that it is not likely - based on some narrow preference that you have and possibly some other out of touch folks from r/btc.


You're missing the 'little' fact here that SW was not really ordered and also liked by the major hardware investors, the system runners, who finally have to buy and install that code...

So finally it doesn't matter at all how long and who was developing what.


I'm not sure if I get you.  I thought the activation of segwit does not require changes in code.  In other words, nodes and miners do not have to run it, if they prefer not to run it.  In that regard, are there some kind of implications that negate my points that segwit is nearly a done deal at this point?
hv_
legendary
Activity: 2548
Merit: 1055
Clean Code and Scale

The greatest danger now is not what solution actually ends up being chosen, it is actually the motivations behind those who propose that solution. This is true not only for core, but all proposed solutions.

You come off as a bit pie in the sky with your fairly lengthy attempt at a justification of bitcoin based on some supposed vision of satoshi 8 years ago.

The fact of the matter is that seg wit has already been chosen and has been in the works for a couple of years and appears to be in the final stages of locking in then soon thereafter activation, so your statement "what solution actually ends up being chosen" is either out of touch with actual facts and/r is striving to paint bitcoin to be something that it is not likely - based on some narrow preference that you have and possibly some other out of touch folks from r/btc.


You're missing the 'little' fact here that SW was not really ordered and also liked by the major hardware investors, the system runners, who finally have to buy and install that code...

So finally it doesn't matter at all how long and who was developing what.
legendary
Activity: 3948
Merit: 11416
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"

The greatest danger now is not what solution actually ends up being chosen, it is actually the motivations behind those who propose that solution. This is true not only for core, but all proposed solutions.

You come off as a bit pie in the sky with your fairly lengthy attempt at a justification of bitcoin based on some supposed vision of satoshi 8 years ago.

The fact of the matter is that seg wit has already been chosen and has been in the works for a couple of years and appears to be in the final stages of locking in then soon thereafter activation, so your statement "what solution actually ends up being chosen" is either out of touch with actual facts and/r is striving to paint bitcoin to be something that it is not likely - based on some narrow preference that you have and possibly some other out of touch folks from r/btc.
full member
Activity: 380
Merit: 103
Developer and Consultant
I'm not entirely sure why, perhaps this makes me a dick for saying this, but I hope Bitcoin Cash fails horribly. Wasn't Satoshi's original vision for bitcoin to have only 1MB for the block size? I'm not saying that he is correct with this stance, but I don't think it is cool that they use Satoshi's name like that to market themselves when it isn't his "original vision" like they say it is.

"We the people will breath new life into bitcoin"?? What is this? Most of us people don't want a fork, right?

Like so many you have been misinformed by those who wish to see bitcoin fail. The reality is the opposite of what you have been told, beware of the intense level of propaganda that prevails.

Satoshi's original design called for blocks to grow. The 1Mb limitation is currently imposed by a small and voiceful faction of the community who call themselves 'Core Developers' who don't want bitcoin to scale so they can implement an additional layer with their own technology on top of bitcoin.

So for all intents and purposes Bitcoin Cash is closest to Satoshi's vision.

Having said that, it doesn't mean the fork is a good idea. There is a community consensus to implement segwit on Aug 1st and then increase block sizes in November and this is what should be followed.

I agree with this post.

with segwit you add another layer of potential problems. when a simple modification to a 10mb block would have solved the issue temporary before raising to 100mb.

So why shall I have confidence in adding another layer to bitcoin? I am better using pivx for example where there will no problem or question about scaling the block size once the transaction capacity is reached (actually 70tps)...

it's pathetic. How do you plan to make money with segwit? Is there a way to host a second layer node and make some sats?

+1
Some people here get it - Yes it is far better to (free) scale on-chain, say 8MB or 10MB and let it work for some years. This is Satoshi.

How much years this would give us ?  about 3-5 or more  ?

On the other side you give Moores law a chance (also in Satoshi's vision), and let it work for us - next level technology = free.

Far far better mates!

SW is clearly over-engineering and keeps lots of defs away and the HF Monster needs to play the FUD role.

SW allows better 2nd layer engineering - but in terms of energy and resources this is just wasted and dilutes bitcoins absolutely strongest Satoshi security.

Bitcoin originally had a theoretical max /message/ read :- block size  of 32MB , it was reduced by Satoshi himself/themselves to 1 MB but with pointers on how to scale it in future. Unfortunately , the Bitcoin Core developers have chosen to foist segwit, a potentially dangerous solution and caused a major schism in the community. A second issue with the refusal to increase the block size is the opposing views between those who want Bitcoin to be used as a store of value/asset and those who wish to use it as an everyday currency. In order to facilitate use as a currency, ie allow micro-transactions (buy coffee, pay bus fare etc) blocks must become larger to accommodate the transaction volumes this would entail.

The nature of bitcoin mining is such that miners typically opt to include transactions with higher fees first in the blocks they mine. As such when this debate initially began miners were against the increase in blocksize as it would mean a relative reduction in their profits from fees. This took a turn for the opposite when off-chain scaling was introduced into the conversation and miners figured out they were better off with a high quantity of small fees and large blocks than they were if these transactions went off-chain. Hence miners are now flip-flopping between whichever sounds like it will go in their favor and make the worst yard stick with which to measure community leanings.

Use of bitcoin has been steadily gaining traction over the years with many stores and people now accepting it as a means of settling payments. It is now a topic discussed at the highest levels in many central governments and these developments strengthen the argument that the protocol should reflect bitcoin as a currency , which requires its overall transaction capability to increase drastically.

I think reverting to the initial 32MB limit is the first step. This is not introduction of any new concept, and thus should not result in any backlash. If the Bitcoin Core team can still bring up Segwit at 32MB as a viable solution, IMO that would remove the shadow of their affiliation with off-chain projects as their motivation to suppress the blocksize increase.

The greatest danger now is not what solution actually ends up being chosen, it is actually the motivations behind those who propose that solution. This is true not only for core, but all proposed solutions.
staff
Activity: 3458
Merit: 6793
Just writing some code
Starting on August 1st, will ALL transactions in the blockchain be in segwit format? Is it a format imposed if you want your transaction included in the blockchain? Or is it optional?
Segwit is completely optional. If you don't want to use it, you don't have to and you can use Bitcoin as you normally do now. It is completely backwards compatible so you can use non-segwit software even after segwit activates. The current transaction format, script types, and addresses aren't going anywhere. They will remain the same and unchanged and will function as they do now.

Also, segwit is not activating on August 1st. Segwit will be activating some time around August 24th as that is around when the lock in period will end. First it has to become locked in though. Over the next 2016 blocks, 1915 of them must signal for segwit in order for it to become locked in.

Or there is no transaction format change at all and it is just about the way it will be stored in the blockchain by the miners?
There is a format change, but only if you are spending from segwit outputs.
newbie
Activity: 24
Merit: 3
Hi! I have several doubts regarding SegWit.

Starting on August 1st, will ALL transactions in the blockchain be in segwit format? Is it a format imposed if you want your transaction included in the blockchain? Or is it optional? Or there is no transaction format change at all and it is just about the way it will be stored in the blockchain by the miners?

Thanks a lot in advance!
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
Oh we should waiting no one knows if it's difficult for us
hv_
legendary
Activity: 2548
Merit: 1055
Clean Code and Scale
I'm not entirely sure why, perhaps this makes me a dick for saying this, but I hope Bitcoin Cash fails horribly. Wasn't Satoshi's original vision for bitcoin to have only 1MB for the block size? I'm not saying that he is correct with this stance, but I don't think it is cool that they use Satoshi's name like that to market themselves when it isn't his "original vision" like they say it is.

"We the people will breath new life into bitcoin"?? What is this? Most of us people don't want a fork, right?

Like so many you have been misinformed by those who wish to see bitcoin fail. The reality is the opposite of what you have been told, beware of the intense level of propaganda that prevails.

Satoshi's original design called for blocks to grow. The 1Mb limitation is currently imposed by a small and voiceful faction of the community who call themselves 'Core Developers' who don't want bitcoin to scale so they can implement an additional layer with their own technology on top of bitcoin.

So for all intents and purposes Bitcoin Cash is closest to Satoshi's vision.

Having said that, it doesn't mean the fork is a good idea. There is a community consensus to implement segwit on Aug 1st and then increase block sizes in November and this is what should be followed.

I agree with this post.

with segwit you add another layer of potential problems. when a simple modification to a 10mb block would have solved the issue temporary before raising to 100mb.

So why shall I have confidence in adding another layer to bitcoin? I am better using pivx for example where there will no problem or question about scaling the block size once the transaction capacity is reached (actually 70tps)...

it's pathetic. How do you plan to make money with segwit? Is there a way to host a second layer node and make some sats?

+1
Some people here get it - Yes it is far better to (free) scale on-chain, say 8MB or 10MB and let it work for some years. This is Satoshi.

How much years this would give us ?  about 3-5 or more  ?

On the other side you give Moores law a chance (also in Satoshi's vision), and let it work for us - next level technology = free.

Far far better mates!

SW is clearly over-engineering and keeps lots of defs away and the HF Monster needs to play the FUD role.

SW allows better 2nd layer engineering - but in terms of energy and resources this is just wasted and dilutes bitcoins absolutely strongest Satoshi security.

strong approval. How can I profit from segwit? I setup a node and get some fees?

Hehehe  - not too quick Smiley

Lookup Lightning Network or similar projects ...  but as I say it's wasted energy to bitcoin on-chain secure scaling ....
sr. member
Activity: 854
Merit: 277
liife threw a tempest at you? be a coconut !
I'm not entirely sure why, perhaps this makes me a dick for saying this, but I hope Bitcoin Cash fails horribly. Wasn't Satoshi's original vision for bitcoin to have only 1MB for the block size? I'm not saying that he is correct with this stance, but I don't think it is cool that they use Satoshi's name like that to market themselves when it isn't his "original vision" like they say it is.

"We the people will breath new life into bitcoin"?? What is this? Most of us people don't want a fork, right?

Like so many you have been misinformed by those who wish to see bitcoin fail. The reality is the opposite of what you have been told, beware of the intense level of propaganda that prevails.

Satoshi's original design called for blocks to grow. The 1Mb limitation is currently imposed by a small and voiceful faction of the community who call themselves 'Core Developers' who don't want bitcoin to scale so they can implement an additional layer with their own technology on top of bitcoin.

So for all intents and purposes Bitcoin Cash is closest to Satoshi's vision.

Having said that, it doesn't mean the fork is a good idea. There is a community consensus to implement segwit on Aug 1st and then increase block sizes in November and this is what should be followed.

I agree with this post.

with segwit you add another layer of potential problems. when a simple modification to a 10mb block would have solved the issue temporary before raising to 100mb.

So why shall I have confidence in adding another layer to bitcoin? I am better using pivx for example where there will no problem or question about scaling the block size once the transaction capacity is reached (actually 70tps)...

it's pathetic. How do you plan to make money with segwit? Is there a way to host a second layer node and make some sats?

+1
Some people here get it - Yes it is far better to (free) scale on-chain, say 8MB or 10MB and let it work for some years. This is Satoshi.

How much years this would give us ?  about 3-5 or more  ?

On the other side you give Moores law a chance (also in Satoshi's vision), and let it work for us - next level technology = free.

Far far better mates!

SW is clearly over-engineering and keeps lots of defs away and the HF Monster needs to play the FUD role.

SW allows better 2nd layer engineering - but in terms of energy and resources this is just wasted and dilutes bitcoins absolutely strongest Satoshi security.

strong approval. How can I profit from segwit? I setup a node and get some fees?
hv_
legendary
Activity: 2548
Merit: 1055
Clean Code and Scale
I'm not entirely sure why, perhaps this makes me a dick for saying this, but I hope Bitcoin Cash fails horribly. Wasn't Satoshi's original vision for bitcoin to have only 1MB for the block size? I'm not saying that he is correct with this stance, but I don't think it is cool that they use Satoshi's name like that to market themselves when it isn't his "original vision" like they say it is.

"We the people will breath new life into bitcoin"?? What is this? Most of us people don't want a fork, right?

Like so many you have been misinformed by those who wish to see bitcoin fail. The reality is the opposite of what you have been told, beware of the intense level of propaganda that prevails.

Satoshi's original design called for blocks to grow. The 1Mb limitation is currently imposed by a small and voiceful faction of the community who call themselves 'Core Developers' who don't want bitcoin to scale so they can implement an additional layer with their own technology on top of bitcoin.

So for all intents and purposes Bitcoin Cash is closest to Satoshi's vision.

Having said that, it doesn't mean the fork is a good idea. There is a community consensus to implement segwit on Aug 1st and then increase block sizes in November and this is what should be followed.

I agree with this post.

with segwit you add another layer of potential problems. when a simple modification to a 10mb block would have solved the issue temporary before raising to 100mb.

So why shall I have confidence in adding another layer to bitcoin? I am better using pivx for example where there will no problem or question about scaling the block size once the transaction capacity is reached (actually 70tps)...

it's pathetic. How do you plan to make money with segwit? Is there a way to host a second layer node and make some sats?

+1
Some people here get it - Yes it is far better to (free) scale on-chain, say 8MB or 10MB and let it work for some years. This is Satoshi.

How much years this would give us ?  about 3-5 or more  ?

On the other side you give Moores law a chance (also in Satoshi's vision), and let it work for us - next level technology = free.

Far far better mates!

SW is clearly over-engineering and keeps lots of defs away and the HF Monster needs to play the FUD role.

SW allows better 2nd layer engineering - but in terms of energy and resources this is just wasted and dilutes bitcoins absolutely strongest Satoshi security.
sr. member
Activity: 854
Merit: 277
liife threw a tempest at you? be a coconut !
I'm not entirely sure why, perhaps this makes me a dick for saying this, but I hope Bitcoin Cash fails horribly. Wasn't Satoshi's original vision for bitcoin to have only 1MB for the block size? I'm not saying that he is correct with this stance, but I don't think it is cool that they use Satoshi's name like that to market themselves when it isn't his "original vision" like they say it is.

"We the people will breath new life into bitcoin"?? What is this? Most of us people don't want a fork, right?

Like so many you have been misinformed by those who wish to see bitcoin fail. The reality is the opposite of what you have been told, beware of the intense level of propaganda that prevails.

Satoshi's original design called for blocks to grow. The 1Mb limitation is currently imposed by a small and voiceful faction of the community who call themselves 'Core Developers' who don't want bitcoin to scale so they can implement an additional layer with their own technology on top of bitcoin.

So for all intents and purposes Bitcoin Cash is closest to Satoshi's vision.

Having said that, it doesn't mean the fork is a good idea. There is a community consensus to implement segwit on Aug 1st and then increase block sizes in November and this is what should be followed.

I agree with this post.

with segwit you add another layer of potential problems. when a simple modification to a 10mb block would have solved the issue temporary before raising to 100mb.

So why shall I have confidence in adding another layer to bitcoin? I am better using pivx for example where there will no problem or question about scaling the block size once the transaction capacity is reached (actually 70tps)...

it's pathetic. How do you plan to make money with segwit? Is there a way to host a second layer node and make some sats?
copper member
Activity: 2996
Merit: 2374
I'm trying to get a handle on the current state of various SegWit activation mechanisms. Please forgive me if these are stupid questions; I've been tuned out for a while and it's hard to sift through all the partisan jargon to find out what's going on.

  • At this point, due to BIP141 activation windows, SegWit can't become active until about August 8th, right?
  • At this point, assuming BIP91 miners don't change their minds and they continue to ignore non-BIP141 blocks, BIP148 is a no-op, right?
The next activation period for SegWit starts in about 2.1 days from this post (based on the number of blocks left in the current activation period and the estimated network hashrate). We can call the start of the new activation period July 27. Each activation period lasts 2016 blocks, and one might estimate it will take 13 days for the miners to mine 2016 blocks (this assumes an increase in difficulty of about 7%). This would put the end of the activation period at around August 6, 2017. Once SegWit 'locks in' there will be a 2016 block delay before SegWit (BIP 141) activates, and going off of a 13 day 2016 block schedule, it would put SegWit activating around August 19, 2017.

Both BIP 91 and BIP 148 use the same rules to validate blocks once activated, so as long as BIP 91 is followed (it would not be economical for the miners to not follow BIP 91 because they would be risking their block rewards), UASF (BIP 148) will be a non-event.
legendary
Activity: 960
Merit: 1028
Spurn wild goose chases. Seek that which endures.
I'm trying to get a handle on the current state of various SegWit activation mechanisms. Please forgive me if these are stupid questions; I've been tuned out for a while and it's hard to sift through all the partisan jargon to find out what's going on.

  • At this point, due to BIP141 activation windows, SegWit can't become active until about August 8th, right?
  • At this point, assuming BIP91 miners don't change their minds and they continue to ignore non-BIP141 blocks, BIP148 is a no-op, right?
staff
Activity: 3458
Merit: 6793
Just writing some code
Which one is better and safer for 1st august.
Right now the problem is not August 1st. In fact, forks can and are likely to happen before august 1st because of BIP 91.

Option 1: Downloading bitcoin core from bitcoin.org and then made a address and Transfer all of my coins from exchanges into it and export privkey and keep it.
Option 2: Using electrum and Transfer all of my coins from exchanges into it and keep secret phrase.

Any different between them only for 1st august.
Downloading Bitcoin Core will require you to sync the entire blockchain. This may take a long time. However Bitcoin Core gives you much finer and more granular control over which blockchain you want to use (you can mark blocks as invalid). For a newbie, I recommend that you use Electrum as you can still switch to use the chains that you want to by switching to a different electrum server.
copper member
Activity: 2996
Merit: 2374
I'm using alternative client ELECTRUM. if ELECTRUM choose another chain after hard forking that has lower value market then i want to know what will happen for my coins? Can i use them at higher value market?
Electrum allows you to connect to an electrum server that you want to use so you can choose the chain you want to use. If you end up on a chain that you don't want to use, you can switch to using a different server and use the chain that you do want to use.

Which one is better and safer for 1st august.

Option 1: Downloading bitcoin core from bitcoin.org and then made a address and Transfer all of my coins from exchanges into it and export privkey and keep it.
Option 2: Using electrum and Transfer all of my coins from exchanges into it and keep secret phrase.

Any different between them only for 1st august.

I am not so technical and sorry for my newbie questions.
Electrum would probably be incrementally safer because it would allow you to easily change the blockchain that you are working with for in the event that you need to verify that a transaction exists on a specific branch of a split (you likely will not know which branch you will care about prior to aug 1).
sr. member
Activity: 1120
Merit: 255
I'm using alternative client ELECTRUM. if ELECTRUM choose another chain after hard forking that has lower value market then i want to know what will happen for my coins? Can i use them at higher value market?
Electrum allows you to connect to an electrum server that you want to use so you can choose the chain you want to use. If you end up on a chain that you don't want to use, you can switch to using a different server and use the chain that you do want to use.

Which one is better and safer for 1st august.

Option 1: Downloading bitcoin core from bitcoin.org and then made a address and Transfer all of my coins from exchanges into it and export privkey and keep it.
Option 2: Using electrum and Transfer all of my coins from exchanges into it and keep secret phrase.

Any different between them only for 1st august.

I am not so technical and sorry for my newbie questions.
staff
Activity: 3458
Merit: 6793
Just writing some code
I'm using alternative client ELECTRUM. if ELECTRUM choose another chain after hard forking that has lower value market then i want to know what will happen for my coins? Can i use them at higher value market?
Electrum allows you to connect to an electrum server that you want to use so you can choose the chain you want to use. If you end up on a chain that you don't want to use, you can switch to using a different server and use the chain that you do want to use.
sr. member
Activity: 1120
Merit: 255
I'm using alternative client ELECTRUM. if ELECTRUM choose another chain after hard forking that has lower value market then i want to know what will happen for my coins? Can i use them at higher value market?
legendary
Activity: 3948
Merit: 11416
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
If BTC split wont happen what will the new update(BIP 91) be good for?

Are you serious?

Activating and locking in segwit.

BIP91 seems to provide a path in which segwit is activated fairly promptly and the USAF BIP148 is avoided.

Miners seem to prefer segwit to be activated through BIP91 rather than through BIP148
hv_
legendary
Activity: 2548
Merit: 1055
Clean Code and Scale
is there an official link to the BIP 91 and BIP148 UASF on here? Im curious if its really going to get locked in this week and we can finally moon....


I'm not sure what you mean, exactly; however, some folks are watching the closeness of the BIP91 locking in on these two websites.

https://coin.dance/blocks


https://www.xbt.eu/
Also my website is tracking BIP 91 signaling: https://www.btcforkmonitor.info/ as well as monitoring for any chain splits.

Really cool - Thx a lot!

 I'll try to distribute this a bit,  ok?
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