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Topic: PoW vs PoS - page 2. (Read 893 times)

sr. member
Activity: 1190
Merit: 305
Pro financial, medical liberty
December 18, 2021, 12:07:04 PM
#92
Found a great article that explains why proof of stake isn't a consensus mechanism, but a cunning way for an electronic cash system to operate: Proof of stake is a scam and the people promoting it are scammers.

I hadn't thought of this “Nothing at Stake problem” he speaks of. In proof of work, there's a punishment to those who misbehave, but not in proof of stake. @TangentC, wanna give this a read and tell us where he's wrong?

Nice one the same applies to the brocken XRP
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 7340
Farewell, Leo
December 18, 2021, 09:01:20 AM
#91
Found a great article that explains why proof of stake isn't a consensus mechanism, but a cunning way for an electronic cash system to operate: Proof of stake is a scam and the people promoting it are scammers.

I hadn't thought of this “Nothing at Stake problem” he speaks of. In proof of work, there's a punishment to those who misbehave, but not in proof of stake. @TangentC, wanna give this a read and tell us where he's wrong?
legendary
Activity: 2898
Merit: 1823
December 11, 2021, 03:41:15 AM
#90
I heard electricity usage from Christmas lights surges around this time of the year. I believe the anti-Christmas groups supported by anti-Christmas entities should start spreading disinformation, and social-engineering attacks before it’s too late to stop Santa.
member
Activity: 266
Merit: 20
December 11, 2021, 01:02:59 AM
#89
Quote
PoW vs PoS
So 2014 ish. Forum was flooded with the junk.
Get used to it because the forum will be increasingly flooded with topics like this from now on because a popular shitcoin with 72 million premine is trying to convince the plebs into thinking their switch from PoW to PoS is actually a good move that is going to save their shitcoin.

In your cult confusion, no one is talking about any other coin , only Shitcoins that Use Outdated Environmentally Harmful Proof of Waste Technology like Bitcoin.

Proof of Waste Technology is what is being banned.

https://en.cryptonomist.ch/2021/12/10/iceland-limits-electricity-crypto-mining/
Quote
the increase in mining activity is said to be one of the reasons for the sudden energy deficit,

Quote
China’s ban on mining
Quote
Sweden and Norway seem to be moving towards a total ban on mining
Quote
“It is currently possible to drive a mid-size electric car 1.8 million kilometres using the same energy it takes to mine one single Bitcoin.
This is the equivalent of forty-four laps around the globe. 900 bitcoins are mined every day.
This is not a reasonable use of our renewable energy”.

Keep thinking Proof of Waste is not a problem.  Cheesy

FYI:
Meanwhile in Texas :  Cool
https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/commentary/2021/12/05/as-the-rest-of-texas-frets-about-power-outages-denton-adds-bitcoin-mining-to-the-grid/
Quote
Currently, the 135,000 residents of the city of Denton need about 275 megawatts of electricity generating capacity at peak load.
A new purchase-power agreement between local utility Denton Municipal Electric and cryptocurrency “miner” Core Scientific would double that capacity demand over the life of the seven-year contract.
Record scratch: double the entire city’s electricity demand in one contract?
legendary
Activity: 3472
Merit: 10611
December 11, 2021, 12:38:12 AM
#88
Quote
PoW vs PoS
So 2014 ish. Forum was flooded with the junk.
Get used to it because the forum will be increasingly flooded with topics like this from now on because a popular shitcoin with 72 million premine is trying to convince the plebs into thinking their switch from PoW to PoS is actually a good move that is going to save their shitcoin.
legendary
Activity: 4410
Merit: 4766
December 10, 2021, 08:27:15 AM
#87
For those of you still too dense to realize that Proof of Waste is a Dead Tech.

https://www.zerohedge.com/commodities/iceland-energy-crisis-limits-power-heavy-users-including-bitcoin-miners
Quote
Largest Icelandic Utility Cuts Power To Crypto-Miners Amid Grid Crunch

Quote
This week, a power crisis has developed in Iceland, forcing the island's largest utility company, Landsvirkjun, to reduce electricity to energy-intensive industries, such as data centers and metal smelters, including the denial of new power contracts to crypto miners.  

    "The reduction does not only apply to fishmeal factories but also to those large users who have curtailable short-term contracts, such as data centers and smelters. Landsvirkjun has also rejected all requests from new customers for energy purchases due to electronic currency mining," according to Iceland Monitor.

All power on the island is generated through renewable sources, with 73% of electricity provided by hydropower plants and 26.8% from geothermal energy, accounting for over 99% of total electricity consumption. The source of the power crisis is low hydro reservoir levels.

Let the bitcoin cultist cries of FUD begin.  Cool

FYI:
Funny how Iceland had no problems maintaining power before the bitcoin miners started sucking them dry.  Wink

they are not cutting current mining contracts. they are instead not accepting NEW mining companies moving in

this is because there was a mass migration of mining companies from asia to iceland.
dont blame the current icelandic miners. blame the asian miners wanting to move to iceland.

what you also find is that iceland dont just have power plants with only just enough capacity for today. they know it takes years/decades to build a power plant so their power plants are designed to have MORE capacity than the consumption requirements of the time of todays design. this is called a buffer/excess.

utility companies like having their plants at full capacity as that = full income. meaning they can get more profit to then invest in more expansion.

for years now big mining farms have been buying up the buffer/excess outside of the residential/industry production quota. thus not harming the residential/industrial supply, not causing brownouts.
what is happening more recently is the migration of many farms from china causing too much future demand that would exceed the FUTURE buffer/excess. and so they put a stop to FUTURE contracts of not yet made farms, whilst still honouring the current contracts of already set up farms.

the current settled farms will continue to mine and will continue to profit the utility company while the utility company then has more time to expand and build more power plants.
legendary
Activity: 2898
Merit: 1823
December 10, 2021, 06:07:07 AM
#86
It doesn’t change anything. Hahaha. Because some country wants to ban mining, suddenly Bitcoin mining is wasteful? What happened to Sybil Protection Mechanism? What happened to Byzantine Fault Tolerance? Isn’t issuance of the currency from the protocol itself important anymore?
member
Activity: 266
Merit: 20
December 08, 2021, 11:09:51 AM
#85
For those of you still too dense to realize that Proof of Waste is a Dead Tech.

https://www.zerohedge.com/commodities/iceland-energy-crisis-limits-power-heavy-users-including-bitcoin-miners
Quote
Largest Icelandic Utility Cuts Power To Crypto-Miners Amid Grid Crunch

Quote
This week, a power crisis has developed in Iceland, forcing the island's largest utility company, Landsvirkjun, to reduce electricity to energy-intensive industries, such as data centers and metal smelters, including the denial of new power contracts to crypto miners.  

    "The reduction does not only apply to fishmeal factories but also to those large users who have curtailable short-term contracts, such as data centers and smelters. Landsvirkjun has also rejected all requests from new customers for energy purchases due to electronic currency mining," according to Iceland Monitor.

All power on the island is generated through renewable sources, with 73% of electricity provided by hydropower plants and 26.8% from geothermal energy, accounting for over 99% of total electricity consumption. The source of the power crisis is low hydro reservoir levels.

Let the bitcoin cultist cries of FUD begin.  Cool

FYI:
Funny how Iceland had no problems maintaining power before the bitcoin miners started sucking them dry.  Wink

On a more serious note :
Current day time temps in parts of iceland are as low as 7 degree Fahrenheit,
The Utility has to keep power to the people so they don't die from the cold.
Bitcoin PoW is just a waste of resources to the people of iceland.


FYI2:
https://www.icelandreview.com/news/icelanders-used-most-electricity-per-capita-in-2017/
Quote
Iceland’s per capita energy consumption could prove significantly higher in 2018 and 2019,
thanks to another energy-intensive industry that has taken hold in the country: Bitcoin mining.
In 2018, Jóhann Snorri Sigurbergsson from energy company HS Orka estimated that
Bitcoin mining used more electricity that year than all of the country’s households combined.
legendary
Activity: 2898
Merit: 1823
December 04, 2021, 06:33:14 AM
#84
How long must the protocol run for Bitcoin to prove itself as a multi-generational protocol for a “money”? No entity has stopped it, after the China FUD, the China Ban, the other FUDs/bans, all the false narratives. OR has dethroned it from being the cryptocurrency with the highest market value.
member
Activity: 266
Merit: 20
December 02, 2021, 03:16:44 PM
#83
3. Not working as well as you think. At some point , No country will allow bitcoin mining, because their energy waste threatens the entire power grid.
Speculation & FUD.

Try News instead of fud.   Wink
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-13/bitcoin-miners-fleeing-china-could-overload-siberia-s-power-grid
Quote
Bitcoin Miners Fleeing China Could Overload Siberia’s Power Grid

https://protos.com/bitcoin-miners-overload-kazakhstans-electricity-grid-forcing-rations/
Quote
Kazakhstan will ration electricity and even cut off over-consuming customers after a wave of Chinese Bitcoin miners pushed the country’s unprepared power grid to breaking point.

  Cool



This leaves out of the equation the fact that all kinds of technologies can and will improve, the power grids included. I have no idea whether Siberia a decent reference point for strong power grids that could truly suffer from overload. In fact, one day rising Bitcoin prices could even be an incentive for countries to improve their infrastructure.

Oh and by the way:
https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/research%3A-bitcoin-consumes-less-than-half-the-energy-of-the-banking-or-gold-industries

Let me know when a Country bans banking because the bank threaten the destruction of it's power grid,
then you have an argument, until then you are just living in a delusion of a bitcoin cultist fantasy.  Smiley
hero member
Activity: 1106
Merit: 508
Bisq Market Day - March 20th 2023
December 02, 2021, 07:31:03 AM
#82
3. Not working as well as you think. At some point , No country will allow bitcoin mining, because their energy waste threatens the entire power grid.
Speculation & FUD.

Try News instead of fud.   Wink
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-13/bitcoin-miners-fleeing-china-could-overload-siberia-s-power-grid
Quote
Bitcoin Miners Fleeing China Could Overload Siberia’s Power Grid

https://protos.com/bitcoin-miners-overload-kazakhstans-electricity-grid-forcing-rations/
Quote
Kazakhstan will ration electricity and even cut off over-consuming customers after a wave of Chinese Bitcoin miners pushed the country’s unprepared power grid to breaking point.

  Cool



This leaves out of the equation the fact that all kinds of technologies can and will improve, the power grids included. I have no idea whether Siberia a decent reference point for strong power grids that could truly suffer from overload. In fact, one day rising Bitcoin prices could even be an incentive for countries to improve their infrastructure.

Oh and by the way:
https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/research%3A-bitcoin-consumes-less-than-half-the-energy-of-the-banking-or-gold-industries
legendary
Activity: 2898
Merit: 1823
December 02, 2021, 06:22:25 AM
#81
Newbies, a network under POS is a permissioned system. It’s NOT ideal for a “money”. The consensus mechanism depends on people holding the token, but how can they get some of the tokens? They need to buy/get it from a third party. It’s not a trustless, and permissionless way to distribute the currency.
sr. member
Activity: 1190
Merit: 305
Pro financial, medical liberty
December 02, 2021, 03:30:09 AM
#80
Quote
PoW vs PoS
So 2014 ish. Forum was flooded with the junk.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 7340
Farewell, Leo
December 02, 2021, 01:46:34 AM
#79
Try News instead of fud.

But, that's FUD. News that contain fear, uncertainty and doubt.
member
Activity: 266
Merit: 20
December 01, 2021, 10:48:35 PM
#78
3. Not working as well as you think. At some point , No country will allow bitcoin mining, because their energy waste threatens the entire power grid.
Speculation & FUD.

Try News instead of fud.   Wink
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-13/bitcoin-miners-fleeing-china-could-overload-siberia-s-power-grid
Quote
Bitcoin Miners Fleeing China Could Overload Siberia’s Power Grid

https://protos.com/bitcoin-miners-overload-kazakhstans-electricity-grid-forcing-rations/
Quote
Kazakhstan will ration electricity and even cut off over-consuming customers after a wave of Chinese Bitcoin miners pushed the country’s unprepared power grid to breaking point.

  Cool

legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 7340
Farewell, Leo
December 01, 2021, 09:32:31 AM
#77
Don't feed the trolls!

1. You don't know what I know.  Smiley  
 He & She have been dead for over 3 years now.
Proof, proof, proof, proof.

2. LOL, When Ethereum & Cardano PoS networks Marketcap exceeds bitcoin proof of waste, the look on your face is going to be hilarious.  Cheesy
This shows that you don't get it. And what will happen in a hypothetical scenario those two exceed the market cap of bitcoin? Does that mean they've succeeded? Was that it? Does it mean bitcoin has failed as a peer-to-peer currency?

However, I find it highly unlikely for both of them to ever exceed it.

3. Not working as well as you think. At some point , No country will allow bitcoin mining, because their energy waste threatens the entire power grid.
Speculation & FUD.
member
Activity: 266
Merit: 20
December 01, 2021, 03:26:54 AM
#76
1. Satoshi is dead. Bitcoin mining has been centralized to just 4 mining pool operators for over 4 years.

2. All new coins are Proof of Stake, so PoW have already lost the war. Bitcoin users are just too stupid to know it yet.

3. China banned bitcoin mining easily, and so will the other countries in time. Miners can't draw more power than 20000 homes and expect to be able to hide.

4. Proof of Stake network nodes are impossible to stop and can easily move to another country within an hour.
1. You don't know who Satoshi is to know if they are alive or not. And there are a dozen mining pools but it doesn't matter because pools don't own hashrate the miners do and there are far more miners than pools and they are spread around the globe which makes it decentralized.

2. It is obvious that nobody including the owners of the shitcoin is going to spend money on mining shitcoins so new coins choose something that is weaker and can be sustained without spending money by the centralized authority.

3. They are free to try. For every country that has banned bitcoin mining there are 50 other countries that have accepted bitcoin mining.

4. Any government or law enforcement can easily kick down the door of the Proof of Shitcoin networks and seize all their funds and gain full control of that shitcoin network.

1. You don't know what I know.  Smiley  
 He & She have been dead for over 3 years now.

2. LOL, When Ethereum & Cardano PoS networks Marketcap exceeds bitcoin proof of waste, the look on your face is going to be hilarious.  Cheesy

3. Not working as well as you think. At some point , No country will allow bitcoin mining, because their energy waste threatens the entire power grid.
https://decrypt.co/87293/bitcoin-mining-kazakhstan-power-china-hash-rate-price
Quote
Miners in the country were already starting to disconnect from the grid because of electricity shortages. (Caused by the Proof of waste miners)
So it wasn’t much of a surprise when, last week, Bekbau posted on Twitter a video of a shipping container being packed up with the last of the company’s south Kazakhstan mining rigs, saying Xive was shutting down its mining farm.


4. I can see you know nothing about PoS , if you think kicking down a door makes that big of a difference.
    Funny how you ignore that only 4 guys in bitcoin have doors that are worth kicking down.  Tongue

* PoS guys can hide their nodes , where you will never find their door, Proof of waste guys doors stick out like an energy wasting flare.*

If a PoS guy were so inclined , he could run his node on a laptop from a Van moving 24 hours a day, hiding his IP and using a cell network, and you never find him.
Your PoW losers asic miners can't do that.  Cool
legendary
Activity: 3472
Merit: 10611
December 01, 2021, 03:14:55 AM
#75
1. Satoshi is dead. Bitcoin mining has been centralized to just 4 mining pool operators for over 4 years.

2. All new coins are Proof of Stake, so PoW have already lost the war. Bitcoin users are just too stupid to know it yet.

3. China banned bitcoin mining easily, and so will the other countries in time. Miners can't draw more power than 20000 homes and expect to be able to hide.

4. Proof of Stake network nodes are impossible to stop and can easily move to another country within an hour.
1. You don't know who Satoshi is to know if they are alive or not. And there are a dozen mining pools but it doesn't matter because pools don't own hashrate the miners do and there are far more miners than pools and they are spread around the globe which makes it decentralized.

2. It is obvious that nobody including the owners of the shitcoin is going to spend money on mining shitcoins so new coins choose something that is weaker and can be sustained without spending money by the centralized authority.

3. They are free to try. For every country that has banned bitcoin mining there are 50 other countries that have accepted bitcoin mining.

4. Any government or law enforcement can easily kick down the door of the Proof of Shitcoin networks and seize all their funds and gain full control of that shitcoin network.
legendary
Activity: 2282
Merit: 3014
November 30, 2021, 04:36:16 PM
#74
Despite what anyone tries telling you, Proof of Work is the superior method at the time being.  The question I always ask myself when it comes to certain types of cryptography questions is.."do the cypherpunks support it".  When it comes to Proof of Stake, from what I have seen, the vast majority of Cypherpunks do NOT support it.  (of course you can find all sorts of other good info here about it).
member
Activity: 266
Merit: 20
November 30, 2021, 03:55:50 PM
#73
Slogans and fud that you push do not make for reality.  It only attempts to warp reality.  The china fud with electricity is rather amusing attempt on your part due to the fact that china is known for lying about well....everything really and, has a 4,000 year history of doing so.  Following this logic you can easily see how you would believe everyone else's fud to push whatever coin they currently have,   I've already pointed out Cardanos critical flaw which is currently unsolvable.  Its betting on AI to catch up and solve the problem.  but I doubt that will happen.  even if it does the fact its designed to be centralized means its has built in corruption problems.

I do think bitcoins future hashrate has a pareto distro problem.  It currently does not.  Where in the future it has this problem is unknowable at this time.

Cardano has no critical flaw, but if you feel it is so critical then you should crash cardano to prove your point.
Forgive me for not holding my breath.  Cheesy

PoW future is not unknowable, it is right in everyone face, just those who for personal financial interest refuse to see it.
PoW is designed to use energy in a competition to earn more than the other competitors.

The huge design flaw and the reason PoW is a technical dead end, their is no limit to the energy required for their competition,
meaning at some point, the PoW miners are not only competing with each other , but also complete against every other person that uses energy.
Your family for example use energy to heat / cool their homes, once bitcoin miners are willing to pay more for the energy than your family,
the price of energy will increase to the point the Bitcoin miners can still afford but your family can't.
But the competition between the miners will eventually reach the point the power grids can no longer sustain them , and the power grids collapse.
Bitcoin PoW Miners are after all nothing but greed in physical form.
Endless Greed not only destroys others , but in the end it destroys the miners as well.

https://forkast.news/headlines/kazakhstans-power-shortages-crypto-miners-scramble/
I imagine the people that are suffering rolling blackouts in Kazakhstan, wish that it was fud and not their reality.

Update:
https://compassmining.io/education/kazakhstans-power-shortage-outage-bitcoin-mining/
https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/kazakhstan-rations-power-after-coal-fired-plant-outages-2021-10-15/
https://eurasianet.org/kazakhstan-to-restrict-crypto-miners-amid-power-shortages
If you think everycoin not bitcoin is a shitcoin, then you are a bitcoin cult member.
Well, every cryptocurrency, besides Monero, that I've dived into was much worse than Bitcoin, so yeah I'll support Bitcoin instead. No need to label it. I'm not into a cult. There's no leader either way.

The rest of the pools are irrelevant since the top 4 mining pool overlords can 51% attack at a moment's notice.
It's not as easy as you say it is. If they'll ever want to reverse a transaction, the miners will know it. It's down to the miners' decision if their attack is going to succeed or not. The miners receive headers which include the height. Thus, a pool can't attack if the miners are unaware of it.

But, again, same thing happens with Cardano. As I said, less than 1% of the ADA users, hold the majority of the coins. What makes you think it's more resistant to a 51% attack?


The Leader of Bitcoin is the Bitcoin Dev Team : Blockstream, that has limited the onchain transaction capacity of btc and put out the most of the repeated nonsense.
And the majority of bitcoin cultist regurgitate every false hood they proclaim.
https://www.bitcoinminershashrate.com/cbdc-exploration-organized-by-a-group-of-central-banks/
Quote
Silvergate Bank made the first commitment from the crypto community to the digital assets department.
This is Benjamin Richman, former director of business development and partnerships at the Blockstream bitcoin technology start-up.

You should actually study Proof of Stake, you would learn alot.
(Go search Cardano or Algorand resources for information, it will enlighten you as to the truth.)
https://www.algorand.com/resources/blog/silvio-micali-lex-fridman-algorand-and-the-blockchain-trilemma

For one thing
Proof of Work miners have fixed % of domination equals to their hashrates.
Four PoW Pool operators have dominated over 51% for over 4 years now.

Proof of Stake domination fluctuates with every coin staked, meaning a pool that has 51% control until they stake,
dominance immediately drops after staking, no longer maintaining 51%. Some PoS coins even ban staking for a given time frame after a stake occurs.

No Proof of Stake pools can maintain 51% domination of a chain due to their staking % always in flux.

While a PoW network can be 51% attacked , basically forever,  that can never happen with PoS.
It also means the most deadly 51% freeze attack where all new blocks or transactions are blocked from the chain in PoW , that PoS is totally immune from. Wink



Cardano and other POS are premines and İCO,they are all centralized and Governments can crush them easily. Cardano rich list %1 owns %70 of all coins.
POW you trust decentralization, is secure with miners, in POS you trust to the wealthiest Validator.
POW is hard to ban,POS is easily censorable.
POW coins produced by hardware and electricity,POS is like FED,ecb printer machine brr...
POW is Satoshi Nakamoto choice ,POS is ico,premine and firm venture capitalists.

1. Satoshi is dead. Bitcoin mining has been centralized to just 4 mining pool operators for over 4 years.

2. All new coins are Proof of Stake, so PoW have already lost the war. Bitcoin users are just too stupid to know it yet.

3. China banned bitcoin mining easily, and so will the other countries in time. Miners can't draw more power than 20000 homes and expect to be able to hide.

4. Proof of Stake network nodes are impossible to stop and can easily move to another country within an hour.

* Have a Nice Day. *   Smiley
 
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