Topic: PoW vs PoS - page 6. (Read 893 times)

It is certainly never going to happen, maybe in another lifetime or metaverse, not this one 


Time will tell, PoS hasn't been fully implemented on ETH network. As for Cardano, no one is sure how things would be if the network had huge transaction volumes.

The rest of the other PoS experiments dubbed Ethereum killers in the previous bull run like EOS, TRON are already leaving below expectations in terms of market value

The more coins you have staked, the greater your chances to mine the next block. Your mining power or potential to validate blocks is determined on how much of the native token you already own and have put up for staking.

You can find plenty of articles on the subject if you google "how are transactions confirmed in POS coins" or some combination like that. 

The truth is that shitcoins such as ETH have massive premines (72 million Ether to be exact) and are centralized. The centralized authority wants to take advantage of the "get paid just because you own something" feature of PoS and switch to it. They are also aware that their shitcoin is losing its hype and slowly miners are leaving it behind specially as it dumps and mining becomes less and less profitable and in PoW when you lose miners you lose security and soon enough these shitcoins will be filled with 51% attacks every day.

So they sell PoS as a "solution" to their naive users by using fake arguments such as "low electricity cost" while ignoring all the serious flaws in PoS.

You already answered your own question, the keyword was "many" (although it is only some countries) not all. Miners will migrate to places where they can freely and cheaply mine and there are many countries with very low electricity cost, low tax, cheap labor, better climate and are friendly to bitcoin.

Bitcoin is PoW, it is in the whitepaper. However, if everybody agrees, yes bitcoin may switch to PoS as well but I don't think it is going to happen. Some people say PoS is not as safe as PoW and we still don't know if this is right. Eth and cardano doing well so far. So maybe, the hesitations might be baseless.

I see. Wow this makes a lot of sense. POS doesn't provide the inherent value that POW does. So coins like Cardano are solely regulated by supply and demand.

But how does POS actually validate a transaction? Bitcoin miners have to solve the puzzle, but POS miners just have lots of the coin??

And this won't happen to bitcoin because the miners are controlling the value of the coin. makes sense.

Thanks for the links. Helped a lot

my and pokers conversations about VALUE. is not about PRICE

again gold VALUE is ~$1k whilst the SPOT PRICE is like $1.8k

market forces (speculation hype, pump and dump bubble) is the PRICE determiner..

but the underlying VALUE is the determiner of the LOW where people stop selling down. you know the ultimate bottom.

electric and hash power does not determine the mid(active/spot) or any ATH(all time high) as again for emphasis thats the market speculation premium layer of volatility.

but the underlying value is the low

imagine it like farming fruit. it costs a farmer 20cents to grow an apple but the retail price for a customer is 60cents.
the price can swing up and down from the 60cents but will never go below 20 cents because thats the price the farmer costs it at to sell to supermarkets.. and supermarkets are not stupid enough to sell at a loss.

so whilst retail PRICE is market determined. value COST is cost determined.

have a nice day

put it this way. chinese mining at say 140exa hash had a $20k underlying value.. meaning no one dares sell below $20k unless foolishly making a bug in their trade bot.

now majority of mining maybe outside of china. the lowest cost value is already higher. so say america is majority the average underlying value is about $37k

meaning thats the new 'bottom' and toughest resistance to break that no one will dare sell below
so its not just hash power but also yes electrical price. slowly making the min price ever to be seen again be on a rise. supporting the price from ever going below a certain value.
the only time this bottom value support can decline is if hashrate declines

In my own humble view, I think that the rise of electricity prices will not have considerable push-up effect on the price of BTC...the price is always determined by the market forces so it can go up and go down anytime and sometimes for no reason at all. Now, having said that, the electricity prices can affect mainly the profits that can be gained from Bitcoin mining just like any other business as this is a major expense. Right now, the USA has gained the top hand in BTC mining and not anymore China...this can certainly be exerting more demand for power and there is that talk to exploit wasted energy so they can be converted to cash rather than just have them released to the environment.

What you have just explained has made me wonder about something. Do you think that the rise in electricity prices that is happening in many parts of the world, especially where it is being mined the most now like the US, is going to affect the price of Bitcoin? It should, I'd say, even though we are in a bull market I guess it is another factor that will push the price up.

Welcome to the community, I suggest you read the following threads below regarding the PoW vs PoS arguments it's pros and cons:

• POW vs. POS
• PoW vs PoS- Proof-of-Stake Might be the Winner here (Save the Environment)
• PoW vs PoS (Decentralized)
• PoW and PoS; Pros and Cons

PoS works by people staking their coin. . no intense computation needing superior hardware
it creates no value. there is no 'cost' in mining. people can put their stake in. and later take it out. no loss

this makes altcoins with PoS have no underlying value in its coin creation. thus reliant on value from the features of what that coin can do/be used for after the creation to keep the coin active/alive.

bitcoin has a real cost of creation via the mining hardware. much like golds underlying cost is in gold mining costs.

because it costs $10's of thousands in electric/hardware to make just one bitcoin. (more precisely hundreds of thousands per 6.25 reward) that gives bitcoin a baseline value. which no one wants to sell below. thus giving bitcoin a good actual store of value.
yes there is the vapour/speculative/bubble premium ontop thats volatile. but thats the same with gold

golds underlying cost value is like $1k and the rest of the 'premium' that makes up the combined 'spot' price is the speculative supply/demand, hype

the only reason people want PoS is because the fantasy of profit for nothing. or no-loss profit. but the thing about PoS is if a coin was successful and everyone was using it. eventually the slicing up of the reward being split between everyone involved would leave everyone with nothing. thus majority lose interest

PoS is just a fantasy of getting rich for free. whereby it only really works by pump and dumping the coin to keep it viable and entertaining enough to avoid just turning into a zero utility coin.

because the amount of blocks are limited a viable coin would end up with people having to syndicate their stake into a group of people. much like how bitcoin mines in groups. thus again making it no different and having the same competition. but with an PoS altcoin its a fight to the bottom rather than with bitcoin which is a fight to the top

bitcoins mining method is more secure then PoS and the more hardware competition to mine = stronger hashing which cant be undone as cheap. bitcoins security grows.  cost grow. meaning base value grows.

altcoin PoS security does not grow. no matter how much is staked. and if it got popular. there would end up being more people wishing to break an altcoin for quick riches rather than stick to the rule. PoS only survives by having a small userbase of stakers and just enough enticement and fantasy to keep it active.

basically the more that use bitcoin the stronger it gets.. the more that use PoS altcoins the weaker it gets. but it requires enough peters to pay pauls so that the early stakers can leave, but have enough later stakers to keep the fantasy alive.

PoS is not a thing you want to use for something as big as bitcoin.

I know Bitcoin is running on a proof of work consensus algorithm. Recently I discovered proof of stake by reading up a bit on Cardano and Ethereum's 2.0 plans.

What is the difference between these two, how does POS reduce the energy required to mine a block transaction and are either of these more secure than the other? Basically what are the pros and cons of each.

Also if POS consumes less energy, then wouldn't it be a good idea for Bitcoin to transition to a POS algorithm?