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Topic: PRCDice.eu - Largest Dice invest site - Open since 2013! Chat, Play, Invest! - page 26. (Read 89249 times)

legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1333
I've always loved this type of system of not charging commission on the same profit twice, but always thought it could introduce new types of unexpected mechanics.  Something like buying/selling accounts with "negative profits", etc.

The fact that the site had to keep some data in memory, that some money was "worth different" than other money (money in one account was not the same as money in another account, because of past investment history which would skew the profits taken from them, ie. same amount of money in a new account would make a different amount in ROI, than money in another account that could have negative profits) always confused me, as it seemed like you as the operator were making less money to provide users with this benefit.

It's really the only fair way of doing it. I don't think it's fair to charge commission on wins if you don't give some kind of rebate on losses. And yes, the site could take more commission if it charged 10% on all profits, but it was never my intention to make a bunch of coins. I wanted JD to be fair for all concerned.
full member
Activity: 214
Merit: 100
I don't like the server seed changing after each bet. On JD your server seed stayed the same until you randomized.
legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1333
house always wins 1% of the bets, the rest 99% is random and in the long run it should split evenly

I'm not sure if you're trolling, stupid, or just don't speak English very well. I don't mean to be rude, but what you said is clearly wrong.

The house doesn't win 1% of bets. The house wins around 100-49.5% of the 49.5% bets, 100-66% of the 66% bets, etc. The player wins X% of all the X% bets. The house profits because the payout for the X% bet is only 99/X, not 100/X like it 'should' be if there was no edge.

It makes no sense to think that 1% of the bets are the 'edge' bets. Every bet the player wins pays out 1% less than it would if there was no edge.
legendary
Activity: 1876
Merit: 1295
DiceSites.com owner
Quote from: finnile link=topic=663326.msg9049995


Damnnn crazy.
sr. member
Activity: 323
Merit: 254
Was PRC taking negative commissions on losing weeks under the old system? If not, the new system should be dramatically better almost regardless of the observed site edge.

No, but it wasn't charging commission on the same profit twice. It was a "high tide mark" kind of a system, and so the expected cost to investors shouldn't have changed.

I've always loved this type of system of not charging commission on the same profit twice, but always thought it could introduce new types of unexpected mechanics.  Something like buying/selling accounts with "negative profits", etc.

The fact that the site had to keep some data in memory, that some money was "worth different" than other money (money in one account was not the same as money in another account, because of past investment history which would skew the profits taken from them, ie. same amount of money in a new account would make a different amount in ROI, than money in another account that could have negative profits) always confused me, as it seemed like you as the operator were making less money to provide users with this benefit.
member
Activity: 106
Merit: 10
there's 1% edge in regards to number of bets, not in regards to amount wagered

What is that supposed to mean?

house always wins 1% of the bets, the rest 99% is random and in the long run it should split evenly;
this however does not apply to the amount wagered; I'm not mathematician but I think the wagered amount distribution between winning and losing bets will shift more to the winning ones - so the house will not win 1% of the amount wagered but less
... and historical performance of all of the dice sites does not convince me otherwise

That makes no sense. There is a 1% house edge on every single bet, so the expected winnings for the house in the long-run is 1% of wagered.

Let me rephrase that. To simplify it, take just 2x bet when the chance to win or lose is 49.5%, the rest (1%) is always win for the house. So, out of 1000 bets, the expectation is that the player will win 495 and lose 495 and 10 of these bets are always wins for the house.
But the amount of wagered will not be distributed evenly among all 1000 bets. Player will always try to minimize the amount wagered on losing bets and maximize it on winnings. It's not easy to beat 1% house edge, in the long run house will win 1% of all these bets but I don't think the house is able to win 1% of wagered.

Let me try to explain how this works and clear up the confusion. You must view every bet as being paid 1% less than it is meant to. For example. If you wanted 50% chance you only get 1.98x not 2x. this lower payout means the house already took the 1% from you regardless the outcome. Most players will increase their risk to 49.5% chance to get the nice even 2x payout. At these odds, the player should get 2.020202020202x payout, but the house is taking the 1% and making it 2x. Using this visualization method, you can see that every bet being placed is getting 1% less payout. Regardless how many bets are made, the player gets 1% less payout on all bets. Just because a player gets lucky and has more wins, or wins on larger bets, doesn't change the fact the player received 1% less than he/she otherwise would of.

Hope that makes sense.
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 104
watching AK play today and to see him almost bust 4-5 times and comes back and wins 200btc.  amazing
Yeah, that was amazing. Rather he made double that amount on DB but didn't get paid .
My argument from day before still lies , 15K since 29th wagered and the site loses 200 BTC . Investors pay an extra 15 BTC. Enough short term damage, rather than waiting for long term, when you don't even know where the bitcoin prices will end.

EDIT: Some guy degen(probably Road), donked out lost around 500 coins just now .

hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
watching AK play today and to see him almost bust 4-5 times and comes back and wins 200btc.  amazing
legendary
Activity: 3654
Merit: 8909
https://bpip.org
Player will always try to minimize the amount wagered on losing bets and maximize it on winnings.

You're gonna have to elaborate on that. I'm sure a lot of gamblers and investors alike would want to know how this can be done (except perhaps mateo, who probably already knows).
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 257
Trust No One
there's 1% edge in regards to number of bets, not in regards to amount wagered

What is that supposed to mean?

house always wins 1% of the bets, the rest 99% is random and in the long run it should split evenly;
this however does not apply to the amount wagered; I'm not mathematician but I think the wagered amount distribution between winning and losing bets will shift more to the winning ones - so the house will not win 1% of the amount wagered but less
... and historical performance of all of the dice sites does not convince me otherwise

That makes no sense. There is a 1% house edge on every single bet, so the expected winnings for the house in the long-run is 1% of wagered.

Let me rephrase that. To simplify it, take just 2x bet when the chance to win or lose is 49.5%, the rest (1%) is always win for the house. So, out of 1000 bets, the expectation is that the player will win 495 and lose 495 and 10 of these bets are always wins for the house.
But the amount of wagered will not be distributed evenly among all 1000 bets. Player will always try to minimize the amount wagered on losing bets and maximize it on winnings. It's not easy to beat 1% house edge, in the long run house will win 1% of all these bets but I don't think the house is able to win 1% of wagered.
legendary
Activity: 3654
Merit: 8909
https://bpip.org
there's 1% edge in regards to number of bets, not in regards to amount wagered

What is that supposed to mean?

house always wins 1% of the bets, the rest 99% is random and in the long run it should split evenly;
this however does not apply to the amount wagered; I'm not mathematician but I think the wagered amount distribution between winning and losing bets will shift more to the winning ones - so the house will not win 1% of the amount wagered but less
... and historical performance of all of the dice sites does not convince me otherwise

The house has a 1% edge on every bet no matter what the bet amount is. Why would winning bets have a larger wagered amount?
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 100
Calling out scams, one HYIP at a time...
there's 1% edge in regards to number of bets, not in regards to amount wagered

What is that supposed to mean?

house always wins 1% of the bets, the rest 99% is random and in the long run it should split evenly;
this however does not apply to the amount wagered; I'm not mathematician but I think the wagered amount distribution between winning and losing bets will shift more to the winning ones - so the house will not win 1% of the amount wagered but less
... and historical performance of all of the dice sites does not convince me otherwise

That makes no sense. There is a 1% house edge on every single bet, so the expected winnings for the house in the long-run is 1% of wagered.
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 257
Trust No One
there's 1% edge in regards to number of bets, not in regards to amount wagered

What is that supposed to mean?

house always wins 1% of the bets, the rest 99% is random and in the long run it should split evenly;
this however does not apply to the amount wagered; I'm not mathematician but I think the wagered amount distribution between winning and losing bets will shift more to the winning ones - so the house will not win 1% of the amount wagered but less
... and historical performance of all of the dice sites does not convince me otherwise
legendary
Activity: 3654
Merit: 8909
https://bpip.org
there's 1% edge in regards to number of bets, not in regards to amount wagered

What is that supposed to mean?
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 257
Trust No One
I don't even think it is possible to achieve as players are not playing randomly as the probability theory expects.

It doesn't matter how players play. A 1% edge is a 1% edge, and so you expect to win 1% in the long run.

there's 1% edge in regards to number of bets, not in regards to amount wagered
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 250
So whats happening in here?  Grin
legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1333
Was PRC taking negative commissions on losing weeks under the old system? If not, the new system should be dramatically better almost regardless of the observed site edge.

No, but it wasn't charging commission on the same profit twice. It was a "high tide mark" kind of a system, and so the expected cost to investors shouldn't have changed.
legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1333
I get a feeling dooglus is planning to relaunch JustDice and plans to implement the same system. Hooray!

I don't have any immediate plans to relaunch, and if I did I would keep the old commission system where investors pay commission on new profits only. I don't like the idea of charging them for bankrolling winning bets.
member
Activity: 62
Merit: 10
Was PRC taking negative commissions on losing weeks under the old system? If not, the new system should be dramatically better almost regardless of the observed site edge.
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
So if players are winning, investors lose their normal losses plus the house takes a cut of what's left of their investment? Seems brutal...

And if players are losing, investors are winning plus paying less in commission.  Seems amazing.

That depends on how fast the players are losing. If they're losing less than 1% of the amount they wager then the investors pay more now than they would have before, and if they're losing more than 1% of the amount they wager then the investors pay less now than they would have before.

Basically 1% profit-on-amount-wagered is the point at which the new system switches from better-for-PRc to better-for-investors.

I get a feeling dooglus is planning to relaunch JustDice and plans to implement the same system. Hooray!
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